General McChrystal humiliates Obama administration...again Update inside

[Nebor]

Perknose disrespecting PJABBER, and calling him a REMF when he's never been there, done that himself is garbage.

I also don't understand the constant use of "metrosexual" as an insult. I'm a pretty metro guy. I use hair wax every morning and try to look and smell my best. That doesn't change the fact that I carry a loaded m4 and m9 everywhere I go, lead soldiers and pull my own weight.

 

[PJABBER]

This is the very reason the Gen did what he did! It was all on purpose. It's far better to create a controversy and make that a reason to resign than to simply quit because you know for a fact your boss strategy is "un-winnable".

If we are going to conjecture about purpose, if any, I would like to throw out something that crossed my mind yesterday as the events continued to unfold, particularly the expedited reaction to basically a fluff, human interest article.

The Iranians have claimed a substantial and growing concentration of U.S. and Israeli forces in Azerbaijan on the northwest border of Iran and have started moving Revolutionary Guard reaction forces into the region.

Coupled with the repositioning of the USS Truman and its carrier assets into strike proximity of Iran (the USS Eisenhower carrier group is already there and it may just be that there is going to be a rotation rather than a reinforcement,) the rumored positioning of Israeli submarines including two brand spanking new German U-212 Dolphin class subs (nuclear cruise missile capable) a year ahead of scheduled delivery into the Gulf region, the ending of an interesting series of air bombardment training exercises in the Var region of France, the recent delivery of JDAM guidance kits, well, we may be finally seeing the signs of an impending strike against Iranian nuclear facilities.

Now, I am not saying this is what is happening. It is just idle speculation on my part. But it would be a smart move to have a covert warfighter like McChrystal pull off a game move like this, allowing him the cover to lead U.S. or allied forces in a surprise strike against Iran. It would be his kind of mission. And if he missed this because of a stupid article, I can't think of anything that would piss a guy like him off more. And I would not want General McChrystal pissed of at me. No siree, Bob.

So, I would like to know. Where is General McChrystal right now? :awe:

Israel's new intelligence satellite launched

Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran

Iran Dismisses Reports on Deployment of Israeli Subs near Territorial Waters

Princeton to deploy this week to Persian Gulf

 

[Sclamoz]

This is the very reason the Gen did what he did! It was all on purpose. It's far better to create a controversy and make that a reason to resign than to simply quit because you know for a fact your boss strategy is "un-winnable".

The COIN strategy in Afghanistan is something McChrystal came up with. If this was all really a master plan to blow the whistle on the war and he did it on purpose why wouldn't he tell that to the reporters instead of a bunch of complaints about people he doesn't like?

 

[PJABBER]

Perknose disrespecting PJABBER, and calling him a REMF when he's never been there, done that himself is garbage.

I also don't understand the constant use of "metrosexual" as an insult. I'm a pretty metro guy. I use hair wax every morning and try to look and smell my best. That doesn't change the fact that I carry a loaded m4 and m9 everywhere I go, lead soldiers and pull my own weight.

I used the term in my post #182 of this thread. I was chuckling in thinking about the opening paragraphs of the RS article and how the general was the antithesis of the metrosexual ideal.

Perk took offense at my appropriating the term and accused me of being metro. Obviously projecting. I enjoyed keeping the ball in play.

Are you infantry? In the Stan or Iraq? How do you keep the pomade from melting in the sun or freezing in the cold?

Good God, I just shaved my head Ranger tight and gave up on underwear whenever practical to keep from being funky enough to trigger an M8, much less an M8A1. Wool in the colder climes did not generate the same mustiness so that seldom came off, had to keep those essential oils close. Then again, I was leading a lot of long range patrols and it wasn't unusual for us to be out for weeks at a time. And we didn't have any friendly females (that we could trust anyway) to impress anywhere near our AOs.

I don't knock stylin, if you are working in urban environments it may pay to be snazzy for the ladies. But the green and brown camo stick softened with DEET that I used just did not seem to soften the war face profile enough for that. :awe:

 

[Perknose]

Perknose disrespecting PJABBER, and calling him a REMF when he's never been there, done that himself is garbage.

I also don't understand the constant use of "metrosexual" as an insult. I'm a pretty metro guy. I use hair wax every morning and try to look and smell my best. That doesn't change the fact that I carry a loaded m4 and m9 everywhere I go, lead soldiers and pull my own weight.

You don't know where I've been and what absolute hell on earth I've been through, sport. You don't have the first fucking clue and, of course, it's none of your fucking business anyway.

I'll stop myself from wishing on you what I've gone through, it shouldn't be wished on anyone, ever. But I can fucking well tell you haven't been truly blooded in any REAL action against an equal enemy or you wouldn't be spouting your shallow, cocky BS, just like jabber.

Keep playing at war, sport, but watch out. It may just catch up with you in one murderous hurry. Otherwise, you and your hair wax will come home and you'll brag endlessly about WAR because it will never have really reached out and beat you down to a bloody mess, let alone mussed one well waxed hair on your pretty, arrogant head.

And STILL I won't wish that on you. Not on anyone. Not ever.

 

[PJABBER]

The COIN strategy in Afghanistan is something McChrystal came up with. If this was all really a master plan to blow the whistle on the war and he did it on purpose why wouldn't he tell that to the reporters instead of a bunch of complaints about people he doesn't like?

COunter-INsurgency strategies have been around a long time. Interest in the topic was revived by General Petraeus while he was heading up the U.S. Army Combined Arms Center at Fort Leavenworth. Petraeus, while owing much to others, has to be considered the real author of modern COIN strategy. McChrystal, for all of his talent in other areas, was primarily an implementer of what Petraeus designed.

Counterinsurgency Warfare: Theory and Practice, a 1964 book by David Galula, was a seminal modern study that was the basis for much of what came in later studies. Based on his firsthand knowledge of insurgencies in China, Greece, Southeast Asia, and Algeria, Galula derives numerous lessons that have influenced recent generations of officers and are highly applicable in the current theaters.

You can find many professional articles and studies on the topic, but the Petraeus Bible is FM 3-24.

 

[GrGr]

As sad as it is, that's so true. You have to go in and destroy their way of life and then leave the choice up to them to either take your side or die. Being friendly is for after combat.

So what exactly was wrong with Nazism again?

 

[Sclamoz]

COunter-INsurgency strategies have been around a long time. Interest in the topic was revived by General Petraeus while he was heading up the U.S. Army Combined Arms Center at Fort Leavenworth. Petraeus, while owing much to others, has to be considered the real author of modern COIN strategy. McChrystal, for all of his talent in other areas, was primarily an implementer of what Petraeus designed.

Counterinsurgency Warfare: Theory and Practice, a 1964 book by David Galula, was a seminal modern study that was the basis for much of what came in later studies. Based on his firsthand knowledge of insurgencies in China, Greece, Southeast Asia, and Algeria, Galula derives numerous lessons that have influenced recent generations of officers and are highly applicable in the current theaters.

You can find many professional articles and studies on the topic, but the Petraeus Bible is FM 3-24.

I know what COIN is and I never claimed McChrystal invented it. I said he's responsible for the COIN strategy in Afghanistan, as he is the commander. He chose the strategy and how to implement it, which is something you should know if you're going to claim to be in the military.

Iraq was the war Patraeus re-emphasized COIN for the military and made it a priority. There is no way McChrystal simple took the Iraq strategy and slapped it onto Afghanistan, if you think that you're incredibly stupid.

 

[Zebo]

If we are going to conjecture about purpose, if any, I would like to throw out something that crossed my mind yesterday as the events continued to unfold, particularly the expedited reaction to basically a fluff, human interest article.

The Iranians have claimed a substantial and growing concentration of U.S. and Israeli forces in Azerbaijan on the northwest border of Iran and have started moving Revolutionary Guard reaction forces into the region.

Coupled with the repositioning of the USS Truman and its carrier assets into strike proximity of Iran (the USS Eisenhower carrier group is already there and it may just be that there is going to be a rotation rather than a reinforcement,) the rumored positioning of Israeli submarines including two brand spanking new German U-212 Dolphin class subs (nuclear cruise missile capable) a year ahead of scheduled delivery into the Gulf region, the ending of an interesting series of air bombardment training exercises in the Var region of France, the recent delivery of JDAM guidance kits, well, we may be finally seeing the signs of an impending strike against Iranian nuclear facilities.

Now, I am not saying this is what is happening. It is just idle speculation on my part. But it would be a smart move to have a covert warfighter like McChrystal pull off a game move like this, allowing him the cover to lead U.S. or allied forces in a surprise strike against Iran. It would be his kind of mission. And if he missed this because of a stupid article, I can't think of anything that would piss a guy like him off more. And I would not want General McChrystal pissed of at me. No siree, Bob.

So, I would like to know. Where is General McChrystal right now? :awe:

Israel's new intelligence satellite launched

Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran

Iran Dismisses Reports on Deployment of Israeli Subs near Territorial Waters

Princeton to deploy this week to Persian Gulf

LOL Wow quite a conspiracy you have there. These mealy mouth politicians, and in Europe scared of their own immigrants, will never go after Iran until it's too late. No instead about 2020 we'll be involved in war that will make the 20th century look like a 70's love in.

 

[JSt0rm]

LOL Wow quite a conspiracy you have there. These mealy mouth politicians, and in Europe scared of their own immigrants, will never go after Iran until it's too late. No instead about 2020 we'll be involved in war that will make the 20th century look like a 70's love in.

I'm going to bump this in 2020. If you are wrong then I will phase you...

 

[Zebo]

I'm going to bump this in 2020. If you are wrong then I will phase you...

I hope I am wrong. But I see free world being threatened with forces no less virulent and expansionist than Nazis were. Someday these will come into conflict on equal footing and results will be disastrous. Warfare is a human condition, probably as much as sex, repeated all the time from a kindergarten fight to nations problem is now there are weapons that can wipe out whole cities in seconds.

 

[Zebo]

COunter-INsurgency strategies have been around a long time. Interest in the topic was revived by General Petraeus while he was heading up the U.S. Army Combined Arms Center at Fort Leavenworth. Petraeus, while owing much to others, has to be considered the real author of modern COIN strategy. McChrystal, for all of his talent in other areas, was primarily an implementer of what Petraeus designed.

Counterinsurgency Warfare: Theory and Practice, a 1964 book by David Galula, was a seminal modern study that was the basis for much of what came in later studies. Based on his firsthand knowledge of insurgencies in China, Greece, Southeast Asia, and Algeria, Galula derives numerous lessons that have influenced recent generations of officers and are highly applicable in the current theaters.

You can find many professional articles and studies on the topic, but the Petraeus Bible is FM 3-24.

Real successful ...Algeria gained its independence from France and right after Mr. Galula writes a book saying how great it "worked"....typical. I wish Rifaat al-Assad would write a book or Saddam they understood lessons of old.

 

[JSt0rm]

Good God, I just shaved my head Ranger tight and gave up on underwear whenever practical to keep from being funky enough to trigger an M8, much less an M8A1. Wool in the colder climes did not generate the same mustiness so that seldom came off, had to keep those essential oils close.

😵

 

[PeshakJang]

Perknose disrespecting PJABBER, and calling him a REMF when he's never been there, done that himself is garbage.

I also don't understand the constant use of "metrosexual" as an insult. I'm a pretty metro guy. I use hair wax every morning and try to look and smell my best. That doesn't change the fact that I carry a loaded m4 and m9 everywhere I go, lead soldiers and pull my own weight.

Hair wax. honestly? Do you buy axe at the PX?

 

[Nebor]

You don't know where I've been and what absolute hell on earth I've been through, sport. You don't have the first fucking clue and, of course, it's none of your fucking business anyway.

I'll stop myself from wishing on you what I've gone through, it shouldn't be wished on anyone, ever. But I can fucking well tell you haven't been truly blooded in any REAL action against an equal enemy or you wouldn't be spouting your shallow, cocky BS, just like jabber.

Keep playing at war, sport, but watch out. It may just catch up with you in one murderous hurry. Otherwise, you and your hair wax will come home and you'll brag endlessly about WAR because it will never have really reached out and beat you down to a bloody mess, let alone mussed one well waxed hair on your pretty, arrogant head.

And STILL I won't wish that on you. Not on anyone. Not ever.

The US military has never encountered an equal enemy.

I'm just going to go ahead and assume you're in the same unit as John of Sheffield. You know, the made up SAS company. You just say "sport" instead of "son," but otherwise you sound pretty much the same. Can you pull off quarter sized groups at 750m with a 30-06 like JoS? 😀

PeshakJang, no the PX doesn't have stuff that I like. I had a big box of foo-foo hygiene products sent from the states. Also there's no PX where I live.

And yes, the hair wax melts when it's hot. I've been out for a couple days @ around 0 degrees Fahrenheit and I haven't noticed the cold having an adverse effect on it.

Taking pride in my appearance is just for me, not to impress anyone. Some guys write letters home, or play darts. I look\smell nice for me. Also it gives me something nice to look at when I'm on the treadmill in front of a mirror. 😉

I'm primarily Kabul based, but I've traveled all over the country to get a feel for what our subordinate commands are doing. And yes, I have travel sized foo-foo stuff that goes in my rucksack when I'm traveling around the country.

 

[Siddhartha]

If you guys can step away from the anti-Obama mumbo for a minute, you will realize that it is crucial that the military be completely under civilian control.

Okay, it is okay to go back the normal Obama is a do-do head channel.

 

[PJABBER]

I know what COIN is and I never claimed McChrystal invented it. I said he's responsible for the COIN strategy in Afghanistan, as he is the commander. He chose the strategy and how to implement it, which is something you should know if you're going to claim to be in the military.

Iraq was the war Patraeus re-emphasized COIN for the military and made it a priority. There is no way McChrystal simple took the Iraq strategy and slapped it onto Afghanistan, if you think that you're incredibly stupid.

Don't have a cow, man.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

You don't know where I've been and what absolute hell on earth I've been through, sport. You don't have the first fucking clue and, of course, it's none of your fucking business anyway.

I'll stop myself from wishing on you what I've gone through, it shouldn't be wished on anyone, ever. But I can fucking well tell you haven't been truly blooded in any REAL action against an equal enemy or you wouldn't be spouting your shallow, cocky BS, just like jabber.

Keep playing at war, sport, but watch out. It may just catch up with you in one murderous hurry. Otherwise, you and your hair wax will come home and you'll brag endlessly about WAR because it will never have really reached out and beat you down to a bloody mess, let alone mussed one well waxed hair on your pretty, arrogant head.

And STILL I won't wish that on you. Not on anyone. Not ever.

So much anger lately...hemorrhoids acting up again?

 

[PJABBER]

LOL Wow quite a conspiracy you have there. These mealy mouth politicians, and in Europe scared of their own immigrants, will never go after Iran until it's too late. No instead about 2020 we'll be involved in war that will make the 20th century look like a 70's love in.

Well, things are afoot, as the saying goes.

I just threw that in there as I believe it is asinine to lose talent like that and conjectured a rational, if unlikely, reason for McChrystal's "firing". You have to look to WWII and see how the war planners used a similarly disgraced Patton and an imaginary army to have the Germans think the invasion was coming at Calais to get my drift. Would Team Obama come up with such a feint? I doubt it, but McChrystal himself could if Obama decided to support Israel taking out Iran. And the Israelis aren't waiting until 2020. I am thinking this is going to be a very hot summer.

The more I think about this affair the less respect I have for the President's team in Washington. Good leaders, hell, good managers need to be on top of what their subordinates are about. I am shocked, shocked I tell you, at how removed the National Command Authority must be if they were unaware of the rude boy style of Team America.

If they were aware of it, they had every opportunity to straighten them out. Gates is good at that. But they chose to let the "unacceptable" style go on until it became a magazine story. And then they fire one of the country's hard chargers to make an example. Being oblivious before they read about it in Rolling Stone reflects extremely poor management skills. Not on McChrystal, whom everyone knew and loved as a black ops commander with all that implies, but on Obama and a civilian team that removed itself from what was going on in a very hot war zone.

Being a Commander in Chief requires more than reading a five minute brief over espresso, it means regular meetings with subordinates and engagement. Based on the stories I am reading, obviously something they failed to do or didn't care about if they did. That this attitude is reflected over a wide range of issues, notably the Gulf Oil spill response, really characterizes this White House and its chief tenant.

 

[PJABBER]

Real successful ...Algeria gained its independence from France and right after Mr. Galula writes a book saying how great it "worked"....typical. I wish Rifaat al-Assad would write a book or Saddam they understood lessons of old.

The story of the how the French paras won militarily in Algeria and the French government subsequently gave it away is a fascinating one. Lots of parallels worth considering as you need more than successful military action to win a war, you especially need a government with the will to accept the price of victory.

Rather than make reference to another detailed military history of the para action in Algiers and Algeria, I can recommend The Praetorians by Jean Larteguy, which captures in excellent novel form some of what transpired. Ideally you should read it in the original French, but the English translation is OK.

Larteguy's predecessor work, The Centurions, which covers the French experience in Vietnam, is also well worth reading and really should be read first as the lessons the French paratroopers learned by their fighting and then time as Communist prisoners gave them the skill and mind set to dominate their opponents in Algiers.

I don't know how easy it is find these books if you are not in a major city but using an interlibrary loan request at your local library should come up with a copy.

 

[PJABBER]

😵

LOL, you had to be there. :awe:

 

[jonks]

near universal agreement today from GOP leaders on firing Gen Mc today, from Eric Cantor down.

 

[werepossum]

Kudos to Obama for recognizing how much better Bush is at selecting generals. 😀

/snark

 

[Sclamoz]

Kudos to Obama for recognizing how much better Bush is at selecting generals. 😀

/snark

Considering this is a demotion for Patreus and McChrsytal was promoted to the rank of General under Bush that makes no sense.

 

[Lemon law]

My comment is that there is somewhat a USA obsession with vesting the persona and effects of an entire army on the commanding general.

But what McCrystal brought to Afghanistan was a counter insurgency doctrine that the collateral damage deaths of Afghan civilians was extremely counter productive to the efforts of Nato to win the peace and defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan.

However, even as McCrystal changed the rules of engagement to reflect that we still have to ask: (a) How well were the orders followed in the field by the average soldier?
(b) As McCrystal then decided to supersize his policy with big military offensive in Marja and another big planned one in Kanahar. By definition, the whole military process has to increase and not decrease the overall Afghan violence level and the collateral damage civilian deaths. (c) We already know the number of Nato troops dead and wounded is at record levels now, but we do less well in keeping track of Afghan civilian deaths. So did McCrystal even succeed in his objectives of reducing civilian deaths? (d) And as we look back to Iraq, the surge, and Gen Petraeus occurred at exactly the same time the long prior efforts of various mid level army officers bore fruit. And when the Sunni insurgents quit their violence, Iraq stabilized. Now the question becomes, can General Petraeus get the level of overall Afghan violence level down or not?