- Aug 6, 2001
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8/3/06 EDIT: Sorry this is such an unorganized mess. This thread caught me in a transitional period and shortly after I started it, I took about 4-5 months off posting on AT and basically never finished this. I think I have some decently informative stuff in here, but it's hard to find anything in it without reading basically the whole thing. As of this week I think I'm "back", so I'll fix this up sooner or later. Until I do, here's the original unorganized mess:
Alright folks, I've decided to put together a bit of a general sound thread to address some of the questions that seem to pop up a lot around here.
I'll start off saying that I haven't been in the sound business for 25 years and I haven't spent tens of thousands of dollars on my own system and I haven't installed dozens of systems for customers.
I know for a fact that there are several people on AT that know a lot more about these subjects than I do, but I'm going to cover what I can in here. If someone has some better info they'd like me to include or anything else you'd like to correct me on / add something to, just PM me. I have 389 PMs in the last 33 days so I'm used to it already.
Ok, lets get down to business.
There are a lot of decisions to make when picking out your sound system for a computer / stereo / hometheater application.
A large part of the decision is budget.
Just like anything, most of the time you get what you pay for. For audio, everything has drawbacks. Nothing is perfect. You can spend as much as you want on audio too. Some people literally spend nothing on sound and some people spend hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Typically most people on AT come here with a budget in the $30 to $3000 range for their whole sound system with the majority of those people in the $50 to $400 range for everything.
I think one of the first decisions to make is if you want headphones or speakers.
HEADPHONES
I'm not going to pretend I know a lot about headphones. If someone wants to write up a good basic info writeup on headphone selection I would be happy to put it in here.
Until then, head-fi.org is a great place to check out headphone info from people who really know a lot about them.
Open / Closed, In ear / portable / full sized, amplification, surround, and a lot of other decisions go along with any budget you're considering.
IAteYourMother wrote up some stuff for this thread:
Thanks for writing that up for us
GENERAL SPEAKERS INFO
The first thing you might want to think about is if you want to go with surround sound or a stereo / 2.1 solution.
So how would you decide this?
A big part of this is your intended usage. If you are primarily going to be listening to music on your system, it makes sense to stay with a 2.0 / 2.1 setup. Except for surround audio formats like DVD-A, music is intended to be listened to in stereo.
There are a variety of methods that result in a stereo signal like music being played on a surround sound system. Whether it be CMSS on your creative soundcard, a "Matrix mode" on your computer speakers, or a surround processing mode like Prologic IIx on your receiver, these are all generally going to not be as good as listening to straight stereo for music.
This is a personal preference whether to use something like this, but stereo is going to playback the music with the intended soundstage and offer the cleanest and most pure signal to your speakers for you to enjoy.
So, if you are a music lover then it makes sense to invest your whole budget in a 2.0 / 2.1 system rather than getting a whole 5.1 or higher system made up of lower quality components.
If however, you are a gamer or movies will be your source material then there is no substitue for a true surround sound system. Naturally with more speakers the sound will become more enveloping and the ability to have sounds become more directional around you will be possible.
Placement notes:
It seems like a lot of people will get a 5.1 computer speakers system and then line up all the speakers right in front of them on their desk.
If that is what you're going to have to do permanently to setup your surround sound system, it might be a better idea to just stick to a stereo or 2.1 system instead.
To get the most of your surround sound system, placement is important.
For a hometheater or movie oriented system, Dolby has a guide for speaker placement here with good placement tips below.
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout.html
Here's another article
http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/129023.html
Some quick guidelines would be
Try to keep all speakers equal distance from the seating position, especially the front three.
Try to keep tweeters at or slightly above ear level.
Keep speakers away from the walls if possible.
Play around with the placement as it can make a significant difference. Moving a speaker away from a wall or corner by even just a few inches can have a very big impact on the sound.
Subwoofer placement can be tricky too. Often a corner will be the best place to put one. Try some different locations for it. If you want a quick trick, try placing the subwoofer at the listening position and then play something with some bass in it. While nobody is looking, crawl around the room and try to find somewhere that sounds good to you. If the trick works you should be able to put the sub at that location and it will sound good back at the listening position.
Something to keep in mind on a computer subwoofer is that it's asked to play higher frequencies than most hometheater subs. Computer satellites just aren't capable of playing as low as most larger speakers. The subwoofer ends up playing higher frequencies and thus is easier to locate than a hometheater sub. Below 100hz or so, it's hard to locate in a room where a sound is playing from. 80hz is a good point to set a hometheater subwoofer crossover most of the time and at that setting a corner placement or pretty much anywhere in the room should work. With a computer speaker subwoofer a placement far away from the center position could ruin the illusion that the bass is coming from the speakers and not the big box you shoved in the corner.
Ideally everyone would put enough effort into this with an SPL meter and run frequency sweeps to try to find good locations for their system. The room itself and placement within the room has a HUGE impact on how a system will sound. An inexpensive system set up properly in a favorable room can sound better than an improperly set up but more expensive system. An room that echos heavily and has a perfectly equal dimensions for length and width is going to be a lot tougher to work with than a room without those issues.
I don't have enough personal experience with placement tips and room treatments to offer anything more than general guidelines on this subject. If someone wants to send me a PM with some more tips here, I'd be glad to include it.
If you are getting a 5.1 or higher set for gaming, the placement is going to be a bit different than the movie placement. For movies the surround speakers would be placed to the side or a little behind that. For gaming you're going to want to have the speakers more equally placed around you, so the surrounds would be more to the back of you than the side.
I realize that placement isn't going to be perfect for everyone and is going to be impossible for a lot of people. Do your best.
Get out a tape measurer, do as good a job as you can.
SPECIFIC SPEAKERS
Ok, all that stuff is nice to know, but you probably came here to see what to buy.
I'll start off saying that sound (and speakers specifically) is something very personal compared to a lot of other decisions you'd make when putting together a computer or making an entertainment system.
For lack of a better system, I'm going to kind of divide this up based on budget.
For starters, some general guidelines on how to spend your money
On a computer system, the two main components to consider are a soundcard and speakers.
For a starting point, I would say spend about half or less of your speakers budget on a soundcard.
This is a very general statement but that would be a good place to start.
Something like
$100 speaker set and a $40 soundcard
or
$300 speaker set and a $100 soundcard
not
$150 soundcard and $40 on speakers
Integrated audio has come a long way and a lot of integrated solutions out there are pretty darn good. Until you have gotten beyond basic speakers, I don't think it makes sense to invest in a soundcard.
I should say that if you're experiencing static or other noise due to your harddrive activity etc. that yeah, you should get a soundcard to eliminate those issues, but if your output doesn't include those issues than integrated can be a good option.
If you wanted to make analogy to video, it would go something along the lines of a videocard and a monitor. It wouldn't be the best use of your budget to get a 7800gtx if you're going to be gaming on a 14" monitor capable of 800x600 max resolution.
You need a good display to take best advantage of the output capabilities of a highend videocard.
So before you consider what to get, another thing to consider is your source material quality. Just as a big HDTV will make SDTV not look so great, a high quality and revealing sound system will allow you to appreciate your great sources while allowing you to hear the flaws in bad material.
This isn't a big issue unless your source material is really bad (like less than 128kbps mp3s or something).
So what are your options?
These are some of the more popular options with rough pricing
2.0 or 2.1
Below $30
Might want to hold off or wait for a "hot deal" to come around
~$30
Logitech x-230
~$40
Creative T3000
~$50
Logitech z-3 series
~$70
Altec Lansing 4121
Creative I-Trigue 3300
~$80
Altec Lansing 4221
~$100
Klipsch Promedia 2.0
Logitech z-2300 (can be had for as low as $60AR)
~$130
Altec Lansing MX5021
~$150
Klipsch Promedia 2.1
~$180
Swan M200 2.0
~$200
Klipsch iFi refurb (although I think costco or Sam's had them new at this price, which is why I'm including them at this price)
Beyond $200 the options really open up to put together a set of "real" speakers and an amp/receiver to power them.
You can still get a "real" setup going below the $200 point though.
An example of something that you could do for less would be the Polk R15s or R30s that go on sale from outpost.com from time to time and then getting a cheap amp/receiver to power them.
For picking out a system for yourself, getting a demo of the speakers would be a very good idea. Ideally this would take place in the final listening area in a couple listening sessions with familiar material. Having a few systems that you could test between and do blind A/B testing between them would help you decide what you like better.
Ok, how many people are going to do that on AT?
Since that's probably not going to happen, it would still be nice to get some sort of options open to you. If you can go out to a retail store that carries one or more of the models you're considering that would be better than nothing. The listening environment isn't going to be good and they might not let you bring your own listening material you're used to, but at least you can get some sense of the set including physical attributes.
If you do decide that sound is important to you want you want to go above that $200 mark for a 2.0 or 2.1 set, then I really recommend going out and listening to some different options to get an idea of the kind of sound you like.
Try to see if you can get an in-home demo of some options, or make sure there's a period of time you can still return them and not have to pay any fees.
I guess now would be a good point to put in this link
http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/131062.html
It's an article written by Polk, but gives some basic info on a number of topics relating to speakers.
There are a lot of factors to consider when buying a set of speakers. There's no substitue for actually going in and doing some demo-ing of various options.
Here are some different speaker options you might want to research (there are many more of course)
Some reasonably priced stuff that should be easy to get a demo of in the US
Paradigm (Performance series / Studio series)
Infinity (Primus) - Vanns.com often has good deals
JBL (Northridge series) - the seller harmanaudio on ebay has great deals on factory refurb speakers/subs
Polk
Boston Acoustics
Klipsch
Athena
B&W
PSB
Monitor Audio
Energy
Some online brands that often have a great return policy allowing in home demo-ing, some of them have forums where you might be able to find a current owner in your area to do a demo
Axiom
Ascend Acoustics
AV123 (onix rockets)
Swan
Aperion Audio
SVS
Especially if you're looking at bookshelf speakers, a good sub will really help fill in the low end for your system that's lacking if you don't get fullrange speakers.
For a subwoofer
Dayton at partsexpress makes some very nice budget subwoofers. Their lineup recently went through some mojor changes. Right now they are offering a 12" sub for $150 that goes on sale for $120 with free shipping at times.
Spending more than that I would almost recommend waiting until you can get into the HSU / SVS range.
At the $400 to $500 mark, you can get into the HSU STF-2 / VTF-2 or SVS PB10 range. SVS is a very popular brand and I have two of their subs in my house right now. I've been very impressed with both of them for music and movies. I would highly recommend checking out SVS on any budget from their PB10 to their upper range models.
Between those two options, some recommendations would be getting two dayton subs or looking into something like the JBL e250.
For speakers and sub, making your own is an option that can get you great results. Personally I have not tried that yet, but if you're into woodworking, have some soldering skills, and like projects then getting into DIY audio can be a great way to get amazing results for less than retail.
Going used can also be a great option.
Sites like audiogon, videogon, and the various FS areas at a number of forums will allow you to find great deals on older equipment at a fraction of what they cost new.
5.1 + higher
Below $40
Might want to hold off again
~$40-$50
Logitech x-530
~$100-$125
Logitech z-5300/z-5300e
~$225
Logitech z-5500
~$300
Klipsch Promedia Ultra
~$375
Creative Labs / Cambridge Gigaworks
Beyond that point you're looking at getting a HTIB option or putting together a receiver/sub/speakers set.
Just to mention another product that's out there and has produced some interest - There is the Logitech z-5450 set. This is Logitech's "wireless" speaker set. The front three speakers still have wires running to them from the sub. The rears are the "wireless" ones, but they still have to be plugged in. Each rear speaker has an amp built into it which needs to be plugged into a wall outlet to power them.
The quality on the set appears to be much closer to the $125-ish z-5300 set than the more expensive z-5500 set. Unless you have a very odd setup where having two thick power cables hanging from your rear speakers to wall outlets would work and speaker wire wouldn't, then I would suggest looking elsewhere for you speaker set. The z-5450s seem like a big waste to me for the price they are and what they offer vs the competition.
Pretty much everything I mentioned above for 2.0/2.1 sets above will apply down here.
A set of speakers that is good for music will tend to be good for movies, games, and other 5.1 sources. The same is not always true the other way around. A HTIB (home theater in a box) set that sounds pretty good for movies might sound really bad for music. It's easier to notice flaws and reduced quality when you're listening to some music vs your average movie or game.
Something to consider here is if you want to have a nice 5.1 set eventually, you don't need to buy the whole thing right away. Instead of spending a $500 budget on an entry level HTIB set, you could instead just get a receiver and two speakers initially. As time goes on you could more speakers and a subwoofer to make a better system than you could initially afford. Naturally you're going to end up spending more for the complete system this way, but it's probably going to be cheaper in the long run to do it right the first time instead of getting a cheaper complete system right away and wanting to upgrade it later (and having to start from scratch).
If you think you might want to do something like this, the initial purchases should probably be a 5.1 or higher receiver and a set of good stereo speakers. Pick a set of speakers that has a matching center channel you can add later on. As funds allow, you can then decide what your next purchase would be. A center channel or subwoofer would be the best bet with surround speakers coming last.
In addition to the brands mentioned above, there are also some speaker sets that would work well in a HT environment that might not be as great with music.
I know a lot of people have to account for the WAF (wife acceptance factor) so having a small set of speakers could be a big deal.
As some of you may know, I'm not really a fan of Bose, but there are some much more affordable alternatives to consider.
For example, HSU's VT-12 set of speakers paired with and of their subs would be a good bose alternative for a fraction of the price.
Another popular alternative would be a Klipsch quintet set.
There is a whole list of similar alternatives (some larger than others) in a certain link in my signature right now if you care to look at some other options.
For someone that doesn't care as much about size, there are some HTIB options that would be good on a budget.
If your goal is a more hometheater oriented set than a computer set, you might want to consider Onkyo HTIB sets.
There are plenty of other options from other companies, but the Onkyo sets seem to offer good value so I'll stick with a couple of options from them.
On the lower end of things there's the 5.1 Onkyo 580 set that can be had for around $250
Higher up in the Onkyo line, the 7.1 Onkyo 780 set is a popular choice and can be had for under $400
These should both be available for demo at local retailers in the US like Circuit City.
The floor of a retail store isn't the best place to test out a system, but it's better than nothing.
Assuming you're going to be spending more than the $400-ish for the Onkyo 780 set, you can start looking into other options.
I should mention that there are other sets you could make for an equivalent price to the Onkyo sets as well.
Outpost with their Polk R15/R30 deals can be quite good. Getting a dayton sub, a few pairs of Polks and a budget receiver could be a nice alternative to prepackaged sets.
Beyond that, the same recommendations I made in the 2.0/2.1 section would be good starting points for your own research.
In a 5.1 or higher HT set, the center channel becomes a very important part of the system. In DVD movies, typically something like 70% of all the sound can be coming out the center channel. With that much of the total material dependent on your center, make sure you get a good one. If you're starting with a 2.0/2.1 set you will add to later on, make sure that a good matching center is an option so you aren't shooting yourself in the foot.
After the center channel, the other two front speakers and the sub are the next most used.
If you are using your 5.1 system for music as well as movies/games, it's important to get quality front stereo speakers for when you're listening to stereo sources. You also want the front three speakers to match. It would be best to have all your speakers match, but the front three are the most critical to match.
It's not the end of the world if they don't match, but when they do, pans across the front three speakers will sound natural rather than changing with the different characteristics of each speaker.
Often companies will have recommended 5.1 systems based off their speakers to aid in the matching process. Staying in the same product line of a given company is your best bet to get a close match between your speakers. (For example if you went with Onix reference series for your front stereo pair, you wouldn't want to get an Onix rocket series center to go with them)
For your subwoofer it's not a big deal to match brands. By all means you can keep a whole product line going and get a sub to match the speakers, but it seems that a nice sub from HSU/SVS and equivalents will go well with pretty much anything.
A good subwoofer will really help your hometheater system come to life. Especially if you choose bookshelf speakers vs floorstanding speakers a good sub will complement them to help fill out the sound and give you a good final result. The trend for Movies and TV shows is going deeper and deeper for the bass they demand. For example a movie like Die Hard has their huge explosions centered around the 40-45hz range while some of the newer movies have lots of bass information going below 20hz or even below 10hz.
To get an idea of what kind of signals we're talking here, you might want to check out some waterfall charts of bass information from some different movies.
http://www.svsound.com/questions-faqs.cfm#moviedemos
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum...44887&perpage=30&display=&pagenumber=1
The charts from these sources are a bit different, but the general idea is a plot of volume at certain frequencies vs time.
For SVS's charts, lower frequencies are on the left, higher on the right. The height of the "mountains" represents the volume at that frequency (some are color coded with red being the max). The depth of the chart is time.
The HTF charts are the same idea with frequencies again from left to right, color coded for intensity (peaks from these going up to pink/purple), but time is now vertical.
Notice the charts there are not the whole audio specturum, with a good portion of what is in these charts are going to be handled by the subwoofer.
A typical setting for a subwoofer crossover would be 80hz. If that was your setting, beginning at 80hz, low frequency information from your speakers would gradually be redirected to the subwoofer as the frequencies got lower. There are also the dedicated LFE (low frequency effects) that the sub would be responsible for playing.
These waterfall charts are highlighting some of the most demanding bass scenes in movies today, but if you're anything like me then these are some effects you might really appreciate experiencing on a good system. Lesser subwoofers will not do a good job playing these lower frequencies, will do so with severely reduced output, or will just not even play them at all. Make sure to consider your neighbor though. The same frequencies that are going to punch you in the chest during an explosion are the kind that are going to have no problem vibrating your walls and disturbing everyone near you. I've heard rumors that SVS will give you a free t-shirt if you have the cops called to your house on the first night you get one of their subs, but I wouldn't want to test the theory myself. If you do, tell me how it goes
On to surround speakers- if you're going to skimp somewhere, this is where to do it. DVD-Audio would be an example of an exception to this. If you're going to be using sources where you know there's going to be a lot of surround information involved, then by all means get some great surrounds too. For most cases though (like someone that's going to be watching movies and HDTV) the surrounds aren't going to be used much. It's a nice surprize when I come across a DVD with some great active surround tracks, but for most movies the surrounds are usually doing nothing much or just creating come ambiance sound.
You don't even have to worry too much about matching surround to the front speakers. Pans from front to back / back to front (planes flying overhead often do this) will sound a bit odd, but other than that it's not going to be a big deal.
Something to look into is that there are a couple different types of surround speakers. You could use "ordinary" bookshelf/floorstanding speakers as surrounds, or you could get dipole surrounds. An "ordinary" speaker would tend to be more directional while a dipole speaker would create a more dispersed effect that would be good for ambiance effects that are so often used in DVDs. Dipoles are usually easy to wall mount too vs bookshelf speakers, so it's a good thing to look into if you think wall mounting would work best for your surround speakers.
If you get a chance, try both kinds and see what you like better.
Ghouler wrote a bit on soundcards:
Stuff I didn't talk about at all basically:
Receivers/amps/etc
Cables
etc.
Alright folks, I've decided to put together a bit of a general sound thread to address some of the questions that seem to pop up a lot around here.
I'll start off saying that I haven't been in the sound business for 25 years and I haven't spent tens of thousands of dollars on my own system and I haven't installed dozens of systems for customers.
I know for a fact that there are several people on AT that know a lot more about these subjects than I do, but I'm going to cover what I can in here. If someone has some better info they'd like me to include or anything else you'd like to correct me on / add something to, just PM me. I have 389 PMs in the last 33 days so I'm used to it already.
Ok, lets get down to business.
There are a lot of decisions to make when picking out your sound system for a computer / stereo / hometheater application.
A large part of the decision is budget.
Just like anything, most of the time you get what you pay for. For audio, everything has drawbacks. Nothing is perfect. You can spend as much as you want on audio too. Some people literally spend nothing on sound and some people spend hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Typically most people on AT come here with a budget in the $30 to $3000 range for their whole sound system with the majority of those people in the $50 to $400 range for everything.
I think one of the first decisions to make is if you want headphones or speakers.
HEADPHONES
I'm not going to pretend I know a lot about headphones. If someone wants to write up a good basic info writeup on headphone selection I would be happy to put it in here.
Until then, head-fi.org is a great place to check out headphone info from people who really know a lot about them.
Open / Closed, In ear / portable / full sized, amplification, surround, and a lot of other decisions go along with any budget you're considering.
IAteYourMother wrote up some stuff for this thread:
Thanks for writing that up for us
GENERAL SPEAKERS INFO
The first thing you might want to think about is if you want to go with surround sound or a stereo / 2.1 solution.
So how would you decide this?
A big part of this is your intended usage. If you are primarily going to be listening to music on your system, it makes sense to stay with a 2.0 / 2.1 setup. Except for surround audio formats like DVD-A, music is intended to be listened to in stereo.
There are a variety of methods that result in a stereo signal like music being played on a surround sound system. Whether it be CMSS on your creative soundcard, a "Matrix mode" on your computer speakers, or a surround processing mode like Prologic IIx on your receiver, these are all generally going to not be as good as listening to straight stereo for music.
This is a personal preference whether to use something like this, but stereo is going to playback the music with the intended soundstage and offer the cleanest and most pure signal to your speakers for you to enjoy.
So, if you are a music lover then it makes sense to invest your whole budget in a 2.0 / 2.1 system rather than getting a whole 5.1 or higher system made up of lower quality components.
If however, you are a gamer or movies will be your source material then there is no substitue for a true surround sound system. Naturally with more speakers the sound will become more enveloping and the ability to have sounds become more directional around you will be possible.
Placement notes:
It seems like a lot of people will get a 5.1 computer speakers system and then line up all the speakers right in front of them on their desk.
If that is what you're going to have to do permanently to setup your surround sound system, it might be a better idea to just stick to a stereo or 2.1 system instead.
To get the most of your surround sound system, placement is important.
For a hometheater or movie oriented system, Dolby has a guide for speaker placement here with good placement tips below.
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout.html
Here's another article
http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/129023.html
Some quick guidelines would be
Try to keep all speakers equal distance from the seating position, especially the front three.
Try to keep tweeters at or slightly above ear level.
Keep speakers away from the walls if possible.
Play around with the placement as it can make a significant difference. Moving a speaker away from a wall or corner by even just a few inches can have a very big impact on the sound.
Subwoofer placement can be tricky too. Often a corner will be the best place to put one. Try some different locations for it. If you want a quick trick, try placing the subwoofer at the listening position and then play something with some bass in it. While nobody is looking, crawl around the room and try to find somewhere that sounds good to you. If the trick works you should be able to put the sub at that location and it will sound good back at the listening position.
Something to keep in mind on a computer subwoofer is that it's asked to play higher frequencies than most hometheater subs. Computer satellites just aren't capable of playing as low as most larger speakers. The subwoofer ends up playing higher frequencies and thus is easier to locate than a hometheater sub. Below 100hz or so, it's hard to locate in a room where a sound is playing from. 80hz is a good point to set a hometheater subwoofer crossover most of the time and at that setting a corner placement or pretty much anywhere in the room should work. With a computer speaker subwoofer a placement far away from the center position could ruin the illusion that the bass is coming from the speakers and not the big box you shoved in the corner.
Ideally everyone would put enough effort into this with an SPL meter and run frequency sweeps to try to find good locations for their system. The room itself and placement within the room has a HUGE impact on how a system will sound. An inexpensive system set up properly in a favorable room can sound better than an improperly set up but more expensive system. An room that echos heavily and has a perfectly equal dimensions for length and width is going to be a lot tougher to work with than a room without those issues.
I don't have enough personal experience with placement tips and room treatments to offer anything more than general guidelines on this subject. If someone wants to send me a PM with some more tips here, I'd be glad to include it.
If you are getting a 5.1 or higher set for gaming, the placement is going to be a bit different than the movie placement. For movies the surround speakers would be placed to the side or a little behind that. For gaming you're going to want to have the speakers more equally placed around you, so the surrounds would be more to the back of you than the side.
I realize that placement isn't going to be perfect for everyone and is going to be impossible for a lot of people. Do your best.
Get out a tape measurer, do as good a job as you can.
SPECIFIC SPEAKERS
Ok, all that stuff is nice to know, but you probably came here to see what to buy.
I'll start off saying that sound (and speakers specifically) is something very personal compared to a lot of other decisions you'd make when putting together a computer or making an entertainment system.
For lack of a better system, I'm going to kind of divide this up based on budget.
For starters, some general guidelines on how to spend your money
On a computer system, the two main components to consider are a soundcard and speakers.
For a starting point, I would say spend about half or less of your speakers budget on a soundcard.
This is a very general statement but that would be a good place to start.
Something like
$100 speaker set and a $40 soundcard
or
$300 speaker set and a $100 soundcard
not
$150 soundcard and $40 on speakers
Integrated audio has come a long way and a lot of integrated solutions out there are pretty darn good. Until you have gotten beyond basic speakers, I don't think it makes sense to invest in a soundcard.
I should say that if you're experiencing static or other noise due to your harddrive activity etc. that yeah, you should get a soundcard to eliminate those issues, but if your output doesn't include those issues than integrated can be a good option.
If you wanted to make analogy to video, it would go something along the lines of a videocard and a monitor. It wouldn't be the best use of your budget to get a 7800gtx if you're going to be gaming on a 14" monitor capable of 800x600 max resolution.
You need a good display to take best advantage of the output capabilities of a highend videocard.
So before you consider what to get, another thing to consider is your source material quality. Just as a big HDTV will make SDTV not look so great, a high quality and revealing sound system will allow you to appreciate your great sources while allowing you to hear the flaws in bad material.
This isn't a big issue unless your source material is really bad (like less than 128kbps mp3s or something).
So what are your options?
These are some of the more popular options with rough pricing
2.0 or 2.1
Below $30
Might want to hold off or wait for a "hot deal" to come around
~$30
Logitech x-230
~$40
Creative T3000
~$50
Logitech z-3 series
~$70
Altec Lansing 4121
Creative I-Trigue 3300
~$80
Altec Lansing 4221
~$100
Klipsch Promedia 2.0
Logitech z-2300 (can be had for as low as $60AR)
~$130
Altec Lansing MX5021
~$150
Klipsch Promedia 2.1
~$180
Swan M200 2.0
~$200
Klipsch iFi refurb (although I think costco or Sam's had them new at this price, which is why I'm including them at this price)
Beyond $200 the options really open up to put together a set of "real" speakers and an amp/receiver to power them.
You can still get a "real" setup going below the $200 point though.
An example of something that you could do for less would be the Polk R15s or R30s that go on sale from outpost.com from time to time and then getting a cheap amp/receiver to power them.
For picking out a system for yourself, getting a demo of the speakers would be a very good idea. Ideally this would take place in the final listening area in a couple listening sessions with familiar material. Having a few systems that you could test between and do blind A/B testing between them would help you decide what you like better.
Ok, how many people are going to do that on AT?
Since that's probably not going to happen, it would still be nice to get some sort of options open to you. If you can go out to a retail store that carries one or more of the models you're considering that would be better than nothing. The listening environment isn't going to be good and they might not let you bring your own listening material you're used to, but at least you can get some sense of the set including physical attributes.
If you do decide that sound is important to you want you want to go above that $200 mark for a 2.0 or 2.1 set, then I really recommend going out and listening to some different options to get an idea of the kind of sound you like.
Try to see if you can get an in-home demo of some options, or make sure there's a period of time you can still return them and not have to pay any fees.
I guess now would be a good point to put in this link
http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/131062.html
It's an article written by Polk, but gives some basic info on a number of topics relating to speakers.
There are a lot of factors to consider when buying a set of speakers. There's no substitue for actually going in and doing some demo-ing of various options.
Here are some different speaker options you might want to research (there are many more of course)
Some reasonably priced stuff that should be easy to get a demo of in the US
Paradigm (Performance series / Studio series)
Infinity (Primus) - Vanns.com often has good deals
JBL (Northridge series) - the seller harmanaudio on ebay has great deals on factory refurb speakers/subs
Polk
Boston Acoustics
Klipsch
Athena
B&W
PSB
Monitor Audio
Energy
Some online brands that often have a great return policy allowing in home demo-ing, some of them have forums where you might be able to find a current owner in your area to do a demo
Axiom
Ascend Acoustics
AV123 (onix rockets)
Swan
Aperion Audio
SVS
Especially if you're looking at bookshelf speakers, a good sub will really help fill in the low end for your system that's lacking if you don't get fullrange speakers.
For a subwoofer
Dayton at partsexpress makes some very nice budget subwoofers. Their lineup recently went through some mojor changes. Right now they are offering a 12" sub for $150 that goes on sale for $120 with free shipping at times.
Spending more than that I would almost recommend waiting until you can get into the HSU / SVS range.
At the $400 to $500 mark, you can get into the HSU STF-2 / VTF-2 or SVS PB10 range. SVS is a very popular brand and I have two of their subs in my house right now. I've been very impressed with both of them for music and movies. I would highly recommend checking out SVS on any budget from their PB10 to their upper range models.
Between those two options, some recommendations would be getting two dayton subs or looking into something like the JBL e250.
For speakers and sub, making your own is an option that can get you great results. Personally I have not tried that yet, but if you're into woodworking, have some soldering skills, and like projects then getting into DIY audio can be a great way to get amazing results for less than retail.
Going used can also be a great option.
Sites like audiogon, videogon, and the various FS areas at a number of forums will allow you to find great deals on older equipment at a fraction of what they cost new.
5.1 + higher
Below $40
Might want to hold off again
~$40-$50
Logitech x-530
~$100-$125
Logitech z-5300/z-5300e
~$225
Logitech z-5500
~$300
Klipsch Promedia Ultra
~$375
Creative Labs / Cambridge Gigaworks
Beyond that point you're looking at getting a HTIB option or putting together a receiver/sub/speakers set.
Just to mention another product that's out there and has produced some interest - There is the Logitech z-5450 set. This is Logitech's "wireless" speaker set. The front three speakers still have wires running to them from the sub. The rears are the "wireless" ones, but they still have to be plugged in. Each rear speaker has an amp built into it which needs to be plugged into a wall outlet to power them.
The quality on the set appears to be much closer to the $125-ish z-5300 set than the more expensive z-5500 set. Unless you have a very odd setup where having two thick power cables hanging from your rear speakers to wall outlets would work and speaker wire wouldn't, then I would suggest looking elsewhere for you speaker set. The z-5450s seem like a big waste to me for the price they are and what they offer vs the competition.
Pretty much everything I mentioned above for 2.0/2.1 sets above will apply down here.
A set of speakers that is good for music will tend to be good for movies, games, and other 5.1 sources. The same is not always true the other way around. A HTIB (home theater in a box) set that sounds pretty good for movies might sound really bad for music. It's easier to notice flaws and reduced quality when you're listening to some music vs your average movie or game.
Something to consider here is if you want to have a nice 5.1 set eventually, you don't need to buy the whole thing right away. Instead of spending a $500 budget on an entry level HTIB set, you could instead just get a receiver and two speakers initially. As time goes on you could more speakers and a subwoofer to make a better system than you could initially afford. Naturally you're going to end up spending more for the complete system this way, but it's probably going to be cheaper in the long run to do it right the first time instead of getting a cheaper complete system right away and wanting to upgrade it later (and having to start from scratch).
If you think you might want to do something like this, the initial purchases should probably be a 5.1 or higher receiver and a set of good stereo speakers. Pick a set of speakers that has a matching center channel you can add later on. As funds allow, you can then decide what your next purchase would be. A center channel or subwoofer would be the best bet with surround speakers coming last.
In addition to the brands mentioned above, there are also some speaker sets that would work well in a HT environment that might not be as great with music.
I know a lot of people have to account for the WAF (wife acceptance factor) so having a small set of speakers could be a big deal.
As some of you may know, I'm not really a fan of Bose, but there are some much more affordable alternatives to consider.
For example, HSU's VT-12 set of speakers paired with and of their subs would be a good bose alternative for a fraction of the price.
Another popular alternative would be a Klipsch quintet set.
There is a whole list of similar alternatives (some larger than others) in a certain link in my signature right now if you care to look at some other options.
For someone that doesn't care as much about size, there are some HTIB options that would be good on a budget.
If your goal is a more hometheater oriented set than a computer set, you might want to consider Onkyo HTIB sets.
There are plenty of other options from other companies, but the Onkyo sets seem to offer good value so I'll stick with a couple of options from them.
On the lower end of things there's the 5.1 Onkyo 580 set that can be had for around $250
Higher up in the Onkyo line, the 7.1 Onkyo 780 set is a popular choice and can be had for under $400
These should both be available for demo at local retailers in the US like Circuit City.
The floor of a retail store isn't the best place to test out a system, but it's better than nothing.
Assuming you're going to be spending more than the $400-ish for the Onkyo 780 set, you can start looking into other options.
I should mention that there are other sets you could make for an equivalent price to the Onkyo sets as well.
Outpost with their Polk R15/R30 deals can be quite good. Getting a dayton sub, a few pairs of Polks and a budget receiver could be a nice alternative to prepackaged sets.
Beyond that, the same recommendations I made in the 2.0/2.1 section would be good starting points for your own research.
In a 5.1 or higher HT set, the center channel becomes a very important part of the system. In DVD movies, typically something like 70% of all the sound can be coming out the center channel. With that much of the total material dependent on your center, make sure you get a good one. If you're starting with a 2.0/2.1 set you will add to later on, make sure that a good matching center is an option so you aren't shooting yourself in the foot.
After the center channel, the other two front speakers and the sub are the next most used.
If you are using your 5.1 system for music as well as movies/games, it's important to get quality front stereo speakers for when you're listening to stereo sources. You also want the front three speakers to match. It would be best to have all your speakers match, but the front three are the most critical to match.
It's not the end of the world if they don't match, but when they do, pans across the front three speakers will sound natural rather than changing with the different characteristics of each speaker.
Often companies will have recommended 5.1 systems based off their speakers to aid in the matching process. Staying in the same product line of a given company is your best bet to get a close match between your speakers. (For example if you went with Onix reference series for your front stereo pair, you wouldn't want to get an Onix rocket series center to go with them)
For your subwoofer it's not a big deal to match brands. By all means you can keep a whole product line going and get a sub to match the speakers, but it seems that a nice sub from HSU/SVS and equivalents will go well with pretty much anything.
A good subwoofer will really help your hometheater system come to life. Especially if you choose bookshelf speakers vs floorstanding speakers a good sub will complement them to help fill out the sound and give you a good final result. The trend for Movies and TV shows is going deeper and deeper for the bass they demand. For example a movie like Die Hard has their huge explosions centered around the 40-45hz range while some of the newer movies have lots of bass information going below 20hz or even below 10hz.
To get an idea of what kind of signals we're talking here, you might want to check out some waterfall charts of bass information from some different movies.
http://www.svsound.com/questions-faqs.cfm#moviedemos
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum...44887&perpage=30&display=&pagenumber=1
The charts from these sources are a bit different, but the general idea is a plot of volume at certain frequencies vs time.
For SVS's charts, lower frequencies are on the left, higher on the right. The height of the "mountains" represents the volume at that frequency (some are color coded with red being the max). The depth of the chart is time.
The HTF charts are the same idea with frequencies again from left to right, color coded for intensity (peaks from these going up to pink/purple), but time is now vertical.
Notice the charts there are not the whole audio specturum, with a good portion of what is in these charts are going to be handled by the subwoofer.
A typical setting for a subwoofer crossover would be 80hz. If that was your setting, beginning at 80hz, low frequency information from your speakers would gradually be redirected to the subwoofer as the frequencies got lower. There are also the dedicated LFE (low frequency effects) that the sub would be responsible for playing.
These waterfall charts are highlighting some of the most demanding bass scenes in movies today, but if you're anything like me then these are some effects you might really appreciate experiencing on a good system. Lesser subwoofers will not do a good job playing these lower frequencies, will do so with severely reduced output, or will just not even play them at all. Make sure to consider your neighbor though. The same frequencies that are going to punch you in the chest during an explosion are the kind that are going to have no problem vibrating your walls and disturbing everyone near you. I've heard rumors that SVS will give you a free t-shirt if you have the cops called to your house on the first night you get one of their subs, but I wouldn't want to test the theory myself. If you do, tell me how it goes
On to surround speakers- if you're going to skimp somewhere, this is where to do it. DVD-Audio would be an example of an exception to this. If you're going to be using sources where you know there's going to be a lot of surround information involved, then by all means get some great surrounds too. For most cases though (like someone that's going to be watching movies and HDTV) the surrounds aren't going to be used much. It's a nice surprize when I come across a DVD with some great active surround tracks, but for most movies the surrounds are usually doing nothing much or just creating come ambiance sound.
You don't even have to worry too much about matching surround to the front speakers. Pans from front to back / back to front (planes flying overhead often do this) will sound a bit odd, but other than that it's not going to be a big deal.
Something to look into is that there are a couple different types of surround speakers. You could use "ordinary" bookshelf/floorstanding speakers as surrounds, or you could get dipole surrounds. An "ordinary" speaker would tend to be more directional while a dipole speaker would create a more dispersed effect that would be good for ambiance effects that are so often used in DVDs. Dipoles are usually easy to wall mount too vs bookshelf speakers, so it's a good thing to look into if you think wall mounting would work best for your surround speakers.
If you get a chance, try both kinds and see what you like better.
Ghouler wrote a bit on soundcards:
Stuff I didn't talk about at all basically:
Receivers/amps/etc
Cables
etc.
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