GeForce Titan coming end of February

[f1sherman]

Sticky this

I really don't get the outrage about the prices...they are VIDEO CARDS!! If you think it costs too much, don't buy it and please don't b!tch about it...they are not necessary for you to live. nVidia and AMD are publicly traded companies that have to make profits, not satisfy forum goers...they should price their cards at whatever the market will bear. If nVidia prices their high end cards now on at like $800, so be it...I won't be spending that much on a video card, and I sure as heck will not moan about it on these forums.

except b!tching is perfectly fine, just don't expect to be taken seriously

 

[OCGuy]

Nothing is 'coming out of thin air' This is what benchmarks do, compare different cards and show how they measure up against one another. If you think benchmarks are worthless then I assume you just open a newegg page, close your eyes and stick your finger at your monitor and purchase the card it lands on. We could clutter the thread with benchmarks and links that will show the GTX 680 was the least impressive nvidia flagshig in terms of new levels of performance delivered, but that will just waste forum space. I'd assume as an enthusiast you would just be aware of where cards have slotted in performance wise historically. The 50% reduction in performance delivered in a new nvidia flagship with the GTX 680 is a fact.

Thank you for your well thought-out and non-personal response, refreshing around here!

My point is this. Generally we can all agree that card "x" is better overall than card "y" performance wise.

However, I just dont get how you can put a nice round percentage on it and then base future decisions off of that number.

Bolded from your post: "The 50% reduction in performance delivered in a new nvidia flagship with the GTX 680 is a fact."

When the 50% figure was calculated, how do I know it applies to me?

Was it a dual-core or quad-core CPU used?

How fast was the CPU, in general?

Does this include games that nV does better on the AMD, or vice versa?

What resolution does the 50% apply to?

Does this figure include games that are so behind in graphics that the 50% takes into account the fact that 80fps v 120fps in a game does not matter?

Does this figure include games that are so CPU bound that the FPS were basically identical?

Were the average of several exact reviews taken to come up with the percentage?

Were there driver variances in these reviews?

Was overclocking or overvolting taken into account, which it never guaranteed on any indivudual component?

Are the benchmarked games given different weights based on overall sales, which speaks to overall relevancy?



None of these in-depth questions are needed to conclude that a GTX680 is "better" performance wise than a 7950. But to put flat overall percentages on it would require some fairly in-depth research.

 

[-Slacker-]

Well yeah...



and you're not helping ^_^

Sure I am. When you argue against stupid, then the stupid might just stop .... ..... ................. eventually .... one of these days ... r-right?:\

 

[RussianSensation]

Bolded from your post: "The 50% reduction in performance delivered in a new nvidia flagship with the GTX 680 is a fact."

When the 50% figure was calculated, how do I know it applies to me?

But to put flat overall percentages on it would require some fairly in-depth research.

Groover is clearly comparing transitions from NV's flagship GPUs from 1 node to the other. Each instance of 8800GTX to 280 to 480/580 delivered at least a 50-60% performance increase while the price stayed at around $500-600 mark. He is saying the GTX680 delivered just 35% of the performance increase over the 580 which is roughly 50% less than what should have been expected from a true successor to the 480/580.

Here is a chart that puts it in perspective of what he is talking about:
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2011/bericht-grafikkarten-evolution/3/

Current benchmarks show that the Titan will deliver about 60-65% over the 680 but the price goes up from $499 to $899.

================

Anyway possible specs:

The 512-bit bus is odd to me. I thought the entire GK110 only had 384-bit.

 

[BoFox]

WHOA!!!! 512-bit, baby!!! That's sick!! Everything's sick about it! I thought it was gonna be 384-bit? Hmm!

Something wrong.. 6GB with 512-bit is wrong. I looked it up, seems that the clocks and the bus width were copied off of GTX 690.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

lolz, 1k gpu/shader with 6000mhz on a 512 bus............

Yeah, clearly the fact that it comes with a "fan" is what's driving the cost.

Probably 15 SMX too!

 

[Grooveriding]

Groover is clearly comparing transitions from NV's flagship GPUs from 1 node to the other. Each instance of 8800GTX to 280 to 480/580 delivered at least a 50-60% performance increase while the price stayed at around $500-600 mark. He is saying the GTX680 delivered just 35% of the performance increase over the 580 which is roughly 50% less than what should have been expected from a true successor to the 480/580.

Here is a chart that puts it in perspective of what he is talking about:
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2011/bericht-grafikkarten-evolution/3/

Current benchmarks show that the Titan will deliver about 60-65% over the 680 but the price goes up from $499 to $899.

================

Anyway possible specs:

The 512-bit bus is odd to me. I thought the entire GK110 only had 384-bit.

That is the crux of what I was saying.

@OCguy, your compendium of quibbles could be something one could bring up about any and every benchmark ever done, it reads a little more like ye olde tome of excuses for when you don't like benchmark results. The GTX 680 was the most unimpressive nvidia flagship on a new node I can remember for its performance delivered. It definitely had its pros, but penultimate performance was not one of them. Ryan here at AT said it better than I can

Looking at the bigger picture, I think ultimately we still haven’t moved very far on the price/performance curve compared to where we’ve gone in past generations, and on that basis this is one of the smaller generational jumps we've seen for a GTX x80 product, or for that matter one of the smaller leads NVIDIA has had over AMD's top card. But even with NVIDIA’s conservative pricing we’re finally seeing 28nm translate into more performance for less, which of course is really what we're interested in. To that end, based on GK104’s die size I’m left wondering where GTX 680 is going to be sitting by the end of the year as 28nm production improves, as there’s clearly a lot of potential for price cuts in the future.

Also, lol $1600, that can't be right.

 

[RussianSensation]

I recall someone mentioned that NV might want to hype up PC gaming as 2013 is the big year for PS4/720.

PC vs. Consoles
Titan + Crysis 3 maxed out at 2560x1600 to showcase what the PC has to offer vs. PS4's possible unveiling February 20th.

Could it be that with Project Shield and Nvidia's Titan, Nvidia is actually thinking a lot bigger than only reclaiming the performance crown from AMD? I mean, there are now nearly 150 million PS3/360 gamers and they are waiting to buy a PS4/720. With rumours of these consoles possibly blocking used games, having always on internet connection and being relatively gimped in terms of GPUs (roughly HD7770Ghz-7850 level), it could be strategic to hype up the PC platform as the premier gaming platform for next generation gaming to downplay how great these next gen consoles are.

I think the launch for the Titan has to be really close, February 19th at the latest to coincide with Crysis 3 and right before Sony's big announcement. Also, Nvidia is releasing its earnings report Feb 14, 2013. Nvidia has to be thinking about investors/shareholders and pleasing analysts. Right now their stock is still hovering in the $12 range. Launching the world's fastest GPU would create a lot of hype and bolster NV's graphical leadership in the eyes of investors/Wall Street. We could even see the Titan unveiled next week for this reason.

And maybe some surprises regarding changes to the chip from Tesla K20X. From TPU's forum:

"cadaveca: Like I hate to be a realist here, but really, there's no reason for any of the mystery here. NONE. the only [geforce titan] mystery is final clockspeeds.

"W1zzard (8:13 PM)" nope.. just wait and see

 

[RussianSensation]

lolz, 1k gpu/shader with 6000mhz on a 512 bus............

I don't get how that's possible though. "....GK110 was being built with 15 SMXes, 6 memory controllers" (Source)

6x64-bit = 384-bit

 

[2is]

You think console gamers are going to migrate to PC because of a $900 video card? Why wouldn't they have migrated before? High end PC gaming not expensive enough until now?

 

[Grooveriding]

Nvidia always lifts on Tuesdays AFAIK. Still no board shots at Chiphell at all, maybe 19th otherwise 26th.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Maybe it's GK112, the unicorn of graphics cards. GK110 refresh late this year...

:awe:

 

[SolMiester]

Well, that cant be right Balla, it has GK104 with 384bit bus

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Hey, not every leak is 100% accurate!

Maybe it was a typo

 

[tviceman]

"cadaveca: Like I hate to be a realist here, but really, there's no reason for any of the mystery here. NONE. the only [geforce titan] mystery is final clockspeeds.

"W1zzard (8:13 PM)" nope.. just wait and see

Clock speeds and whether there it's 14 SMX's or the full 15 SMX's. But even then, clock speeds are likely to be in the 825-875mhz range, and the difference between 14 and 15 SMX's isn't very much.

 

[SolMiester]

Release the Krakan......

 

[RussianSensation]

You think console gamers are going to migrate to PC because of a $900 video card? Why wouldn't they have migrated before? High end PC gaming not expensive enough until now?

No, but I think that's what marketing does - it shows you what's possible on the PC. You just need to create awareness/interest for people to notice. It could drum up interest in the PC gaming platform even more if superior graphics are already on the PC, why wait for PS4/720? Some people may be leading towards buying a next gen console instead of building a gaming PC, but if next gen consoles disappoint like the Wii U did, then Nvidia is there to show them what's really possible with Kepler GPUs.

 

[Will Robinson]

LOl @ the New egg $1500 price tag. I only predicted $1300.
I'm looking forward to all the howls of protest on that one from loyal NV fans.
Even better will be its frame rate scores.Luckily it won't matter if the FPS are low because "it's all about smooooothness" right?:whiste:

 

[raghu78]

its very simple. Nvidia can afford to sell the Geforce Titan at USD 900 because AMD does not have a HD 8970 which will come very close to its performance (say 85 - 90% of Titan perf) for a much lower price (around USD 500 - 550). It looks like AMD is kind of completely focussed on PS4 / Xbox Next and so the HD 8000 series looks to be pushed to Q4 2013. This means Nvidia gets to price the way they want. Unless AMD pulls off a HD 4870 kind of upset don't expect Titan to come anywhere close to USD 650 - 700 for another 6 months.

AMD's delay in launching HD 8000 series is going to hurt us - the consumers. I hope AMD can bring the HD 8000 series to launch atleast by late Q2 (Computex). if its a Q4 2013 launch then Nvidia is going to have the PC market all to themselves. the GK114 based products will beat the HD 7970 Ghz badly. I don't know what the hell AMD is thinking.

 

[RussianSensation]

If that's your thing, personally I spend too much time on my PC to waste hours for a dollar.

The PC does all the work, it requires for you to do 0 actual work. If you have 2 GPUs, you can game on 1 while the other does mining. It's not a dollar a day. You already have 3x 470s, so you can just get 3 7970s! If you listened to me last year, you would have had your HD7970s nearly paid off.

2 7970s can make 1350 MegaHash/sec overclocked. That's $150 a month. Less 480W an hour electricity cost (2x240W each at 1150mhz) and you are walking with ~$100 a month in pure profit with only 2 7970 OCed. In 12 months that accumulates to $1,200. It's been 13 months since 7970s launched. Put 1350 in the missing box and see what you get a month.

http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator

Now if this continues at this rate, in 12 more months, that's another $1,200 made from just 2 7970s. So what you are saying now you don't care about $2,000-2,400+ in profits over 2 years doing 'nothing'? People here use their GPUs for Folding@Home and other projects for fun, while burning through hundreds of watts of electricity. With BTC, your GPU makes you $$$. The greatest GPU feature ever. You can now buy almost 3x HD7970s for the price of a single Titan, get 6 free games and game on 1 7970 while the other 2 7970s are mining 24/7. It's great that NV users ignore this feature. More coins left for us. :biggrin:

I'm looking forward to all the howls of protest on that one from loyal NV fans.

They'll sell every single one. You know how many people might sell their GTX680 SLI/ 690 to side-grade to the Titan just to escape SLI? Also, what about all those high end GPU enthusiasts that spent $600-660 on GTX680 Lightning and Classified? That was just on the GK104. Benchmarkers across all the high-end PC gaming forums. When NV launches the world's fastest card "You gotta pay to have the latest and greatest, early adopter premium be damned". When AMD does this, "OMG, they are ripping us off." If AMD didn't launch HD4870, GTX280 would have sold for $649 for an entire time before NV replaced it with the 285. I am surprised it took NV almost a decade to realize that their fans would be willing to pay nearly a grand for a single GPU. Should have kept going starting with 8800GTX Ultra.

AMD's delay in launching HD 8000 series is going to hurt us - the consumers. I don't know what the hell AMD is thinking.

Based on some of the comments here AMD is on the verge of bankruptcy and if they disappeared, things would get better for us. Intel would lower prices to entice more people to upgrade, same for NV since they'd need to give users reasons to upgrade.

I think right now AMD needs to focus on re-writing the memory management / driver for entire GCN series. No point in releasing HD8000 when that GCN's performance hasn't been fully optimized since HD8000 would be starting off on existing architecture at minimum. Also, the Titan will do little to change the standing of HD7000 vs. GTX600 unless NV lowers prices. When GTX690 launched, it wasn't really something that impacted what went on in the market of $100-500 GPUs, except for the 1% of users going GTX680 SLI/HD7970 CFX. Then again, we shouldn't underestimate the marketing/hype of Halo Kepler card to the average Joe, who will surely once again automatically assume that every single Kepler card in every price level below $900 must then be superior to AMD's.

Since Kepler is a more efficient architecture per watt, I can't see what AMD can even do to release a single GPU card that can compete with it until they hit 20nm node.

 

[Rubycon]

Where do you see Newegg listing this @ 1500?

 

[2is]

No, but I think that's what marketing does - it shows you what's possible on the PC. You just need to create awareness/interest for people to notice. It could drum up interest in the PC gaming platform even more if superior graphics are already on the PC, why wait for PS4/720? Some people may be leading towards buying a next gen console instead of building a gaming PC, but if next gen consoles disappoint like the Wii U did, then Nvidia is there to show them what's really possible with Kepler GPUs.

But superior graphics have existed on the PC for over half a decade already, and that's if we limit our timeline to merely current generation consoles. How is Titan any different besides setting a new prescedent for cost? I know a lot of console gamers, they all agree my PC has far better graphics, but they're still console gamers.

 

[raghu78]

Based on some of the comments here AMD is on the verge of bankruptcy and if they disappeared, things would get better for us. Intel would lower prices to entice more people to upgrade, same for NV since they'd need to give users reasons to upgrade.

I think right now AMD needs to focus on re-writing the memory management / driver for entire GCN series. No point in releasing HD8000 when that GCN's performance hasn't been fully optimized since HD8000 would be start off on existing architecture at minimum. Also, the Titan will do little to change the standing of HD7000 vs. GTX600 unless NV lowers prices. When GTX690 launched, it wasn't really something that impacted what went on in the market of $100-500 GPUs, except for the 1% of users going GTX680 SLI/HD7970 CFX. Then again, we shouldn't underestimate the marketing/hype of Halo Kepler card to the average Joe, who will surely once again automatically assume that every single Kepler card in every price level below $900 must then be superior to AMD's.

AMD's memory manager driver is due this month or early next month. that would lay the foundation for the HD 8000 series to perform to its full potential. But the problem is if Nvidia releases a GK114 with 1920 or 2304 shaders in Q2 and prices it at USD 550 and the salvage SKU at USD 450 , AMD will be forced to reduce prices on HD 7970 Ghz. that cannot be good for AMD margins. we need a healthy AMD to compete with Intel / Nvidia.

 

[SolMiester]

LOl @ the New egg $1500 price tag. I only predicted $1300.
I'm looking forward to all the howls of protest on that one from loyal NV fans.
Even better will be its frame rate scores.Luckily it won't matter if the FPS are low because "it's all about smooooothness" right?:whiste:

LOL, you're trying too hard dude....

 

[RussianSensation]

But superior graphics have existed on the PC for over half a decade already, and that's if we limit our timeline to merely current generation consoles. How is Titan any different besides setting a new prescedent for cost? I know a lot of console gamers, they all agree my PC has far better graphics, but they're still console gamers.

I said it could be one reason, but there could be others.

The average person doesn't buy a Viper but Chrysler still releases it to hype up their brand to the average person. Releasing the Titan and running Crysis 3 maxed out on the eve of PS4's launch announcement is a huge marketing move to hype up PC gaming and/or downplay the "revolutionary" next generation console. Also, imagine Sony does some marketing presentation touting Graphics Core Next / compute for games and spins it that PS4 will also last "10 years" like PS3. Releasing the Titan around this time is not only a great PR move for Nvidia, but it reassures investors that NV is well positioned to deliver class-leading PC gaming experiences to enthusiasts who might have otherwise switched from PC gaming to PS4. (1) Reclaim the performance crown from AMD, (2) Hype up PC gaming and establish Nvidia as the world's leading graphics provider in the eyes of investors, (3) Re-assure investors that NV is continuing to work on cutting edge products and the company is well-positioned to withstand the possible exodus of PC gamers to next generation consoles, (4) Showcases what the PC is capable off using what most likely will be the most graphically advanced game in the near term - Crysis 3.

AMD's memory manager driver is due this month or early next month. that would lay the foundation for the HD 8000 series to perform to its full potential. But the problem is if Nvidia releases a GK114 with 1920 or 2304 shaders in Q2 and prices it at USD 550 and the salvage SKU at USD 450 , AMD will be forced to reduce prices on HD 7970 Ghz. that cannot be good for AMD margins. we need a healthy AMD to compete with Intel / Nvidia.

Some think AMD should go back to price/performance strategy of HD4000-6000 series instead. If GK114 launches, and we see HD7950 at $199 and HD7970 at $279 and HD7970 GE at $329, we'll put this theory to the test. According to the same sources that started hinting that HD8000 was not launching until Q4 2013, GTX700 has also been pushed back to a similar timeframe. NV might also postpone GK114 because if you say they'll launch a 2304 SP GK114, then it'll make the Titan even more overpriced than it already looks now. Instead, NV could just continue selling GTX680s for $400-450 and Titan at $900, milking both chips with highest profit margins, without even needing GK114. Since GTX670/680s are still selling in retail for $350-550, they must be selling well enough for NV not to have to lower their prices. Then why would NV rush GK114 if they can milk old tech just as the same as AMD will be doing with HD7000?

Look at the prices of 680s on Newegg. Why would NV replace those 1536 SP cards with a 1920-2304 SP card that costs more to manufacture due to a larger die size if people are still willing to pay these prices for nearly year old 680s?