GeForce 7600, 7200

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
March... That seems lame... : *( anyways lets hope ATI has some thing to fight back with... they got enough time i think to have some competitive product but who knows what ATI will do since they are know for delays.

My guesses:
1. nV put their resources into SLI and the high end this year, wanting to dominate that market to cast an aura of superiority over their whole product line (and succeeded)
2. nV probably figured their current 6600-6800s could fill in at the midrange and low end till these products were introduced. (heh- sound strange to say it, but a 6800U is now a midrange card)

its not fair, i paid a lot of money for my GFX card

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
March... That seems lame... : *( anyways lets hope ATI has some thing to fight back with... they got enough time i think to have some competitive product but who knows what ATI will do since they are know for delays.

My guesses:
1. nV put their resources into SLI and the high end this year, wanting to dominate that market to cast an aura of superiority over their whole product line (and succeeded)
2. nV probably figured their current 6600-6800s could fill in at the midrange and low end till these products were introduced. (heh- sound strange to say it, but a 6800U is now a midrange card)

its not fair, i paid a lot of money for my GFX card

LOL. Go to the FS/FT forums, but a GF2 GTS 64 meg and when you get it after paying $18 shipped bask in the greatness that someone once paid $450+ for it

And realize that 4 to 5 years from now, someone will be holding your card and thinking the same thing

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: kpb
Assuming the 7600 comes with a 128bit memory interface, which it would have to if it's using the 6600's pcb, it would either have to have some seriously fast memory or have to be more of a 150$ card for a 6600 replacement which kinda makes sense. Otherwise it's gonna be a pretty sad replacement for the 6800gs.

They've already let the 6600GT slide to < $150. My guess is that the March line-up will look like:
7800 Ultra (aka "GTX 512mb"): > $550
7800GTX: $425-$525
7800GT: $300-$400
7600GT: $200-$275
7600: $125 - $175
7200GT: $75-$100
7200: < $75

I think the mistake people are making is to assume that the 6800GS is going to be replaced by a single product (ie, "the 7600GT"). By the time March rolls around, it's probably going to be filling the entire $150-$275 range (think: variants with 128mb RAM), and have totally replaced the 6600GT, and, to large extent, the 6600.

That's my conjecture, anyways. nVidia could move things up, and the range of the 6800GS could be narrowed somewhat...

-Erwos

My guess:
7800 Ultra (aka "GTX 512mb"): $599/$649
7800GTX: $549
7800GT: $399
7800GS: $299
7600GT: $199
7600: $149
7200: $129
7200TC: $75

 

[IntelHydralisk]

Originally posted by: gtx4u
march?.... too slow, too late by then.. at least January or Next month.

Too little too late for what? To combat the x1300 and x1600? Which already aren't worth the money? (6800 GS anyone?)

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: kpb
Assuming the 7600 comes with a 128bit memory interface, which it would have to if it's using the 6600's pcb, it would either have to have some seriously fast memory or have to be more of a 150$ card for a 6600 replacement which kinda makes sense. Otherwise it's gonna be a pretty sad replacement for the 6800gs.

They've already let the 6600GT slide to < $150. My guess is that the March line-up will look like:
7800 Ultra (aka "GTX 512mb"): > $550
7800GTX: $425-$525
7800GT: $300-$400
7600GT: $200-$275
7600: $125 - $175
7200GT: $75-$100
7200: < $75

I think the mistake people are making is to assume that the 6800GS is going to be replaced by a single product (ie, "the 7600GT"). By the time March rolls around, it's probably going to be filling the entire $150-$275 range (think: variants with 128mb RAM), and have totally replaced the 6600GT, and, to large extent, the 6600.

That's my conjecture, anyways. nVidia could move things up, and the range of the 6800GS could be narrowed somewhat...

-Erwos

My guess:
7800 Ultra (aka "GTX 512mb"): $599/$649
7800GTX: $549
7800GT: $399
7800GS: $299
7600GT: $199
7600: $149
7200: $129
7200TC: $75

??

You can already get the GT and GTX for less than those amounts.

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: crazydingo
My guess:
7800 Ultra (aka "GTX 512mb"): $599/$649
7800GTX: $549
7800GT: $399
7800GS: $299
7600GT: $199
7600: $149
7200: $129
7200TC: $75

??

You can already get the GT and GTX for less than those amounts.

Its better to guess the MSRP than street prices. Street prices are always going up or down, MSRPs tend to last a while.

 

[coldpower27]

Here is my take on it, MSRP pricing, actual online/street will usually be lower. Current/soon to be pricing I believe.

7800 GTX 512MB 649US
7800 GTX 256MB 599US
7800 GT 449US
6800 Ultra 399US Discontinued
7800 GS 349US
6800 GT 299US
6800 GS 249US
6800 199US Discontinued
6600 GT 149US
6600 DDR2 119US

Future:

6800 GS displaces the older 6800 Vanilla, while the soon to be released 7800 GS will likely displace 6800 GT.

If Nvidia were to introduce a 7600 variant on 6600 PCB, I am hoping for these specs, 16 Pipes/8 ROP/6 VS/G73 Core/High Clocks/1.2ns GDDR3 minimum. This should be powerful enough to displace the 6800 GS, even with it's 256Bit Memory Interface. Probably 249US for the 256MB version, with 199US being for the 128MB one.

Then for a 7200 I think Nvidia will still be cheap and make it 4 Pipes. Were likely looking at DDR2 memory on the high end version.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: erwos
Yeah, release dates are nice, but having some real info on some of the stuff that's not going to change soon (pixel pipes, shaders, and so forth) would have been good.

As for the delayed released of the 7600, it doesn't matter. The 6800GS kills the X1600XT in the benchmarks I've seen, and with some RAM reduction, the 6800GS should also be able to go toe to toe in $150-$175 range, too. ATI has either got to release the X850 as a mid-range card, or they've got to pump up the X1600XT somehow.

I've not seen any good benchmarks of it, but I'm guessing the 6600 competes pretty well against the X1300 Pro at the same price point, especially now that the vendors have started equipping them with DDR2. So, really, who needs the 7200, either?

ATI has gotta figure out how they're going to compete, because some soft-mod GTOs aren't going to cut it for most of the market.

-Erwos

I'm sorry, but how is the release of the 7600 delayed again? There was never any launch scheduled that has been pushed back or anything.

 

[johnnqq]

good news found in today's motherboard article. "X1600 and X1300 cards will no longer need a mastercard to operate in Crossfire mode"

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: johnnqq
good news found in today's motherboard article. "X1600 and X1300 cards will no longer need a mastercard to operate in Crossfire mode"

Umm, you making a joke right?

Check the other topics in the video forum...

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Originally posted by: blckgrffn
LOL. Go to the FS/FT forums, but a GF2 GTS 64 meg and when you get it after paying $18 shipped bask in the greatness that someone once paid $450+ for it

And realize that 4 to 5 years from now, someone will be holding your card and thinking the same thing

Awww... you didn't have to be so blunt. That's just cruel.
Cruel... but true!

 

[kpb]

Originally posted by: coldpower27
If Nvidia were to introduce a 7600 variant on 6600 PCB, I am hoping for these specs, 16 Pipes/8 ROP/6 VS/G73 Core/High Clocks/1.2ns GDDR3 minimum. This should be powerful enough to displace the 6800 GS, even with it's 256Bit Memory Interface. Probably 249US for the 256MB version, with 199US being for the 128MB one.

Then for a 7200 I think Nvidia will still be cheap and make it 4 Pipes. Were likely looking at DDR2 memory on the high end version.

16 pipes, 6 vertex shaders and 8 Rop's almost 6800gt specs (gt has 16rops otherwise the same). The 6800gs with only 8 rops doesn't seem to suffer much so i'd say this card would basically be a 6800gt with the new 7000 series tweaks/features and 128 bit memory interface. With the memroy interface cut in half you'd need to get upto 2ghz effective speed to keep the memory bandwidth the same. Presumably high clocks would mean greater than the gt's 350 mhz speek. Assuming I did my math right you'd be looking at about 1.6 ghz with 1.2 ns ram. That would give you 80% of the memory bandwidth and at least as much processing power if not more from tweaks from the 7000 series architecture and a possibly higher clock speed. This just screams to me that it's gonna memory interface limited in lots of situations.

ATI seems to be trying this with the x1600 in the 250ish market right now and they are getting solidly beat is almost all test by the 256 bit products. It would be a bad idea for nvidia to follow that lead.

 

[SolMiester]

read post before replying Sol!!! doh

 

[the Chase]

Are there any links to any info on the 7800GS? I haven't heard anything at all on this lately either specs or general launch timeframe. I thought it was cancelled or just untrue speculation. I would much rather wait for that though.

 

[KristopherKubicki]

Are there any links to any info on the 7800GS?

Vendors told me it was a 7800gt with one quad disabled. I haven't seen anything in writing though so we are still waiting.

Kristopher

 

[the Chase]

Hmmm.....Possible quad to unlock?.....That would be one sweet price/performance card.

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: kpb

Originally posted by: coldpower27
If Nvidia were to introduce a 7600 variant on 6600 PCB, I am hoping for these specs, 16 Pipes/8 ROP/6 VS/G73 Core/High Clocks/1.2ns GDDR3 minimum. This should be powerful enough to displace the 6800 GS, even with it's 256Bit Memory Interface. Probably 249US for the 256MB version, with 199US being for the 128MB one.

Then for a 7200 I think Nvidia will still be cheap and make it 4 Pipes. Were likely looking at DDR2 memory on the high end version.

16 pipes, 6 vertex shaders and 8 Rop's almost 6800gt specs (gt has 16rops otherwise the same). The 6800gs with only 8 rops doesn't seem to suffer much so i'd say this card would basically be a 6800gt with the new 7000 series tweaks/features and 128 bit memory interface. With the memroy interface cut in half you'd need to get upto 2ghz effective speed to keep the memory bandwidth the same. Presumably high clocks would mean greater than the gt's 350 mhz speek. Assuming I did my math right you'd be looking at about 1.6 ghz with 1.2 ns ram. That would give you 80% of the memory bandwidth and at least as much processing power if not more from tweaks from the 7000 series architecture and a possibly higher clock speed. This just screams to me that it's gonna memory interface limited in lots of situations.

ATI seems to be trying this with the x1600 in the 250ish market right now and they are getting solidly beat is almost all test by the 256 bit products. It would be a bad idea for nvidia to follow that lead.

The ATI situation is a bit different, RV530 is severely crippled in certain areas, it may have 12 Pixel Shaders/ 5 VS configuration, but it only has 4 TMU, if it could at least output 8 pixel per clock I doubt it would be having this problem of being such a minor improvement in performance to the 6600 GT. The 4-1-3-2 Conifguration isn'r really working out I believe.

Memory bandwidth isn't as wonderful as we might think, the 9800 Pro is defeated in most cases by the 6600 GT with less bandwidth.

Acutally I might change my mind on this, I think a 500MHZ Core 12Pixel/5 VS/G73 Core/GDDR3 1.2ns/8 ROP. Should be allright perhaps the memory is clocked at 1.5GHZ.
Bascially the same as NV42 except being on 90nm and having higher clocks, and G7x technology, and limited to 128Bit PCB's.

This won't displace the more expensive rumored specs of the 7800 GS of 16PS/6VS/375MHZ Core/1000MHZ Memory GDDR3/256Bit Interface.

There isn't much of a choice the 6800 GS and 6600 DDR2 are both more expensive products to produce then the either the X1300 or X1600 XT, as both their die sizes are quite a bit larger, on the order of magnitude of 50% minimum. Nvidia like any business would try to make a better product with similar performance and cheaper price. Not to mention the PCB of the 6800 GS is more complex then the one used on X1600 XT. the 6800 GS offers considerably better performance, at the expense of increased complexity. It's great for consumers though.

 

[kpb]

Originally posted by: coldpower27

Originally posted by: kpb

Originally posted by: coldpower27
If Nvidia were to introduce a 7600 variant on 6600 PCB, I am hoping for these specs, 16 Pipes/8 ROP/6 VS/G73 Core/High Clocks/1.2ns GDDR3 minimum. This should be powerful enough to displace the 6800 GS, even with it's 256Bit Memory Interface. Probably 249US for the 256MB version, with 199US being for the 128MB one.

Then for a 7200 I think Nvidia will still be cheap and make it 4 Pipes. Were likely looking at DDR2 memory on the high end version.

16 pipes, 6 vertex shaders and 8 Rop's almost 6800gt specs (gt has 16rops otherwise the same). The 6800gs with only 8 rops doesn't seem to suffer much so i'd say this card would basically be a 6800gt with the new 7000 series tweaks/features and 128 bit memory interface. With the memroy interface cut in half you'd need to get upto 2ghz effective speed to keep the memory bandwidth the same. Presumably high clocks would mean greater than the gt's 350 mhz speek. Assuming I did my math right you'd be looking at about 1.6 ghz with 1.2 ns ram. That would give you 80% of the memory bandwidth and at least as much processing power if not more from tweaks from the 7000 series architecture and a possibly higher clock speed. This just screams to me that it's gonna memory interface limited in lots of situations.

ATI seems to be trying this with the x1600 in the 250ish market right now and they are getting solidly beat is almost all test by the 256 bit products. It would be a bad idea for nvidia to follow that lead.

The ATI situation is a bit different, RV530 is severely crippled in certain areas, it may have 12 Pixel Shaders/ 5 VS configuration, but it only has 4 TMU, if it could at least output 8 pixel per clock I doubt it would be having this problem of being such a minor improvement in performance to the 6600 GT. The 4-1-3-2 Conifguration isn'r really working out I believe.

Memory bandwidth isn't as wonderful as we might think, the 9800 Pro is defeated in most cases by the 6600 GT with less bandwidth.

Acutally I might change my mind on this, I think a 500MHZ Core 12Pixel/5 VS/G73 Core/GDDR3 1.2ns/8 ROP. Should be allright perhaps the memory is clocked at 1.5GHZ.
Bascially the same as NV42 except being on 90nm and having higher clocks, and G7x technology, and limited to 128Bit PCB's.

This won't displace the more expensive rumored specs of the 7800 GS of 16PS/6VS/375MHZ Core/1000MHZ Memory GDDR3/256Bit Interface.

There isn't much of a choice the 6800 GS and 6600 DDR2 are both more expensive products to produce then the either the X1300 or X1600 XT, as both their die sizes are quite a bit larger, on the order of magnitude of 50% minimum. Nvidia like any business would try to make a better product with similar performance and cheaper price. Not to mention the PCB of the 6800 GS is more complex then the one used on X1600 XT. the 6800 GS offers considerably better performance, at the expense of increased complexity. It's great for consumers though.

I'd agree that the 6800gs with more pipes and the 256 bit memory interface is likely more expensive to produce but given the whipping it gives the x1600xt in the benchmarks I've seen I don't think it's a problem. The x1600 specs and performance so far really put it a notch lower than the 6800gs. The 200-250 dollar market is primarly to gaming enthusiasts and most are going to do some research and check sites like anandtech and others and see the performance difference and stay away from the x1600 unless it's priced closer to where it's performing.

Obviously the 6800gs is already a move towards making a cheaper card. 110nm vs 130nm and 12 pipes vs 16 pipes are both going to shrink the die size and decrease thier chip cost. The PCIe native is also going to save on costs obviously.

Nvidia may replace the 6800gs with some variation of the 7600 but with at 128bit memory interface they are gonna have thier work cut out for them to even put it on par with the 6800gs let alone beat it. The 7600 is rummored to be looking at a march ship date so is still 5 month out or so. So it seems nvidia things they can compete well enough till then with thier changes already made to save cost.

The x1300 is a little different situations because it's futher down where your much more likely to get the oems looking for a non integrated video option etc and the non gamers and price is more of a concern. Possibly why the 7200 is rummored to be an earlier launch in feb.

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: kpb

Originally posted by: coldpower27

Originally posted by: kpb

Originally posted by: coldpower27
If Nvidia were to introduce a 7600 variant on 6600 PCB, I am hoping for these specs, 16 Pipes/8 ROP/6 VS/G73 Core/High Clocks/1.2ns GDDR3 minimum. This should be powerful enough to displace the 6800 GS, even with it's 256Bit Memory Interface. Probably 249US for the 256MB version, with 199US being for the 128MB one.

Then for a 7200 I think Nvidia will still be cheap and make it 4 Pipes. Were likely looking at DDR2 memory on the high end version.

16 pipes, 6 vertex shaders and 8 Rop's almost 6800gt specs (gt has 16rops otherwise the same). The 6800gs with only 8 rops doesn't seem to suffer much so i'd say this card would basically be a 6800gt with the new 7000 series tweaks/features and 128 bit memory interface. With the memroy interface cut in half you'd need to get upto 2ghz effective speed to keep the memory bandwidth the same. Presumably high clocks would mean greater than the gt's 350 mhz speek. Assuming I did my math right you'd be looking at about 1.6 ghz with 1.2 ns ram. That would give you 80% of the memory bandwidth and at least as much processing power if not more from tweaks from the 7000 series architecture and a possibly higher clock speed. This just screams to me that it's gonna memory interface limited in lots of situations.

ATI seems to be trying this with the x1600 in the 250ish market right now and they are getting solidly beat is almost all test by the 256 bit products. It would be a bad idea for nvidia to follow that lead.

The ATI situation is a bit different, RV530 is severely crippled in certain areas, it may have 12 Pixel Shaders/ 5 VS configuration, but it only has 4 TMU, if it could at least output 8 pixel per clock I doubt it would be having this problem of being such a minor improvement in performance to the 6600 GT. The 4-1-3-2 Conifguration isn'r really working out I believe.

Memory bandwidth isn't as wonderful as we might think, the 9800 Pro is defeated in most cases by the 6600 GT with less bandwidth.

Acutally I might change my mind on this, I think a 500MHZ Core 12Pixel/5 VS/G73 Core/GDDR3 1.2ns/8 ROP. Should be allright perhaps the memory is clocked at 1.5GHZ.
Bascially the same as NV42 except being on 90nm and having higher clocks, and G7x technology, and limited to 128Bit PCB's.

This won't displace the more expensive rumored specs of the 7800 GS of 16PS/6VS/375MHZ Core/1000MHZ Memory GDDR3/256Bit Interface.

There isn't much of a choice the 6800 GS and 6600 DDR2 are both more expensive products to produce then the either the X1300 or X1600 XT, as both their die sizes are quite a bit larger, on the order of magnitude of 50% minimum. Nvidia like any business would try to make a better product with similar performance and cheaper price. Not to mention the PCB of the 6800 GS is more complex then the one used on X1600 XT. the 6800 GS offers considerably better performance, at the expense of increased complexity. It's great for consumers though.

I'd agree that the 6800gs with more pipes and the 256 bit memory interface is likely more expensive to produce but given the whipping it gives the x1600xt in the benchmarks I've seen I don't think it's a problem. The x1600 specs and performance so far really put it a notch lower than the 6800gs. The 200-250 dollar market is primarly to gaming enthusiasts and most are going to do some research and check sites like anandtech and others and see the performance difference and stay away from the x1600 unless it's priced closer to where it's performing.

Obviously the 6800gs is already a move towards making a cheaper card. 110nm vs 130nm and 12 pipes vs 16 pipes are both going to shrink the die size and decrease thier chip cost. The PCIe native is also going to save on costs obviously.

Nvidia may replace the 6800gs with some variation of the 7600 but with at 128bit memory interface they are gonna have thier work cut out for them to even put it on par with the 6800gs let alone beat it. The 7600 is rummored to be looking at a march ship date so is still 5 month out or so. So it seems nvidia things they can compete well enough till then with thier changes already made to save cost.

The x1300 is a little different situations because it's futher down where your much more likely to get the oems looking for a non integrated video option etc and the non gamers and price is more of a concern. Possibly why the 7200 is rummored to be an earlier launch in feb.

Yes, but I had already factored the reduction to 110nm and the reduction in pipelines into my 50% figure, being a 256Bit interface product that still puts it at 200mm2 or so, as no 256Bit product is any less then that and the Radeon X1600 XT is native PCI-E so netiher has a bridge chip. Remember, my suggested specs would lead it to have a fillrate of 6.0 GP and a output pixel fillrate of 4.0GP, both higher then the 6800 GS, which should negate the reduction in memory bandwidth. Plus you also get the G70 features, such as TAA, Gamma Correct AA, Double Madd Operator Pipes. Nvidia needs to further still reduce the production cost of the product, not saying the 6800GS isn't a move in the right direction because it is.

Both the 6600 DDR2 & 6800 GS are make shift products until the 7600 & 7200 are ready. They do offer quite good performance because they were well thought out. They are fine for the time being not denying that.

Not it won't be easy to match performance, as you got to cut corners when making a cheaper product, but if done correctly, you can get really close.

 

[erwos]

Tom's Hardware has a nice little review of the 6600 w/ DDR2:
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20051109/index.html

Long story short, it handily slaps the X1300Pro around at 1024x768, and usually wins at 1600x1200. For an MSRP of $99, that's a spectacular deal from XFX, too. Just needs AGP and dual DVI .

-Erwos

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: the Chase
Hmmm.....Possible quad to unlock?.....That would be one sweet price/performance card.

Dont know, I think its using a different core.

Originally posted by: kpb
Nvidia may replace the 6800gs with some variation of the 7600 but with at 128bit memory interface they are gonna have thier work cut out for them to even put it on par with the 6800gs let alone beat it. The 7600 is rummored to be looking at a march ship date so is still 5 month out or so. So it seems nvidia things they can compete well enough till then with thier changes already made to save cost.

The x1300 is a little different situations because it's futher down where your much more likely to get the oems looking for a non integrated video option etc and the non gamers and price is more of a concern. Possibly why the 7200 is rummored to be an earlier launch in feb.

The 6600GT has significantly less memory bandwidth than a 6800/X800 and yet it keeps up nicely with those cards. Which leads me to believe that they dont have to provide it with similar amounts of memory bandwidth.

A 7600GT with 3 quads clocked at 600MHz and with 1.4ns memory clocked at 700MHz sounds about right to outperform a 6800GS.

 

[A554SS1N]

Originally posted by: erwos
Tom's Hardware has a nice little review of the 6600 w/ DDR2:
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20051109/index.html

Long story short, it handily slaps the X1300Pro around at 1024x768, and usually wins at 1600x1200. For an MSRP of $99, that's a spectacular deal from XFX, too. Just needs AGP and dual DVI .

-Erwos

Wow, I didn't know there was going to be a 6600 DDR2 - although it still won't challenge my intentions of a 6600GT for a budget build.

 

[UltraWide]

how many pipes for the 7600?

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
I am not sure what to make of the Geforce 6800 GS, it's priced abit cheaper than the Geforce 6800 GT but not by enough to make it a great purchase imo. I have read a few comments saying that the Geforce 6800 GS is replacing the GeForce 6800, I think that is an error because if you take into account the price then it's actually replacing the Geforce 6800 GT?

TBH I would of liked to see the Geforce 7600 and 7200 released sooner but I do understand why Nvidia have not done so.

UK Geforce 6800 GS prices at Overclockers.co.uk

i think the gt replaced the 6800 vanilla. i sent my 6800 vanilla back to bfg for repair or replacement and they sent me a 6800 gt instead.

Wow you must be really pleased, I am jealous!

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: nemesismk2

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
I am not sure what to make of the Geforce 6800 GS, it's priced abit cheaper than the Geforce 6800 GT but not by enough to make it a great purchase imo. I have read a few comments saying that the Geforce 6800 GS is replacing the GeForce 6800, I think that is an error because if you take into account the price then it's actually replacing the Geforce 6800 GT?

TBH I would of liked to see the Geforce 7600 and 7200 released sooner but I do understand why Nvidia have not done so.

UK Geforce 6800 GS prices at Overclockers.co.uk

i think the gt replaced the 6800 vanilla. i sent my 6800 vanilla back to bfg for repair or replacement and they sent me a 6800 gt instead.

Wow you must be really pleased, I am jealous!

Well remember the MSRP of the Geforce 6800 Vanilla and Geforce 6800 GT are currently 199US & 299US respectively.

The Geforce 6800 GS MSRP is supposed to be 249US, since the Geforce 6800 Vanilla is discontinued though this product replaces that.

Also when you factor in street prices of say 210US for the Geforce 6800 GS OC and 250US for the 6800 GT, using a mail in rebate mind you, stock performance will favor the 6800 GS, this is using Newegg as a reference point.

This is the same as the 7800 GT MSRP 449US displaces the 6800 Ultra MSRP 399US.