Geforce 304.48 Beta drivers up

[The_Golden_Man]

Here's what happened in some games with vsync turned on:

--Game is at 60 fps with vsync.

--Kepler says, oh I have power to spare, lets downclock a bit.

--Kepler downclocks.

--FPS goes below 60 for a split second.

--Vsync stutter occurs.

--Meanwhile, if you had vsync turned off the framerate could be something absurd like 200 fps. So if you had vsync on you'd get weird dips to 45-50 fps but you'd get 200 fps with vsync off. This happened to me in diablo 3, WoW, darksiders, SR3, and a few other games. It didn't happen in all games though, didn't happen in crysis 2 or bf3. I wanna say it mostly happened in older games with ridiculously high framerates.

This happens in specific games, it didn't happen in all titles - the new beta resolved most of the stutter for me. Some are still reporting it though.

You can use MSI Afterburner or Precision to limit FPS when not using Vsync.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Whats the difference between using a frame limiter and using vsync?

Assuming you set the limiter to 60 fps, and you had a 60Hz screen, whats the difference?

 

[The_Golden_Man]

Whats the difference between using a frame limiter and using vsync?

Assuming you set the limiter to 60 fps, and you had a 60Hz screen, whats the difference?

The difference is you can unleash more than 60FPS while at the same time stop it from reaching several hundred FPS.

Also, Vsync gives input lag. With it disabled there is no input lag.

I've done some testing in The Witcher 2 using my ASUS GTX 670 SLI setup. I've found when using one GPU and no Vsync, it feels a little laggy at 60 - 80FPS (Also a little screen tearing) when compared to 2 cards at 110 + FPS (No screen tearing and even more fluid. I feel a big difference. A little bit strange since I have a 60Hz monitor. But it is the way it is.

Vsync has no Screen Tearing, but are not so fast and fluid as Vsync off and SLI. Also, I feel a big difference because of input lag with Vsync enabled.

If you limit FPS to 60 with Vsync off it would probably give you screen tearing in many games.

 

[Termie]

Whats the difference between using a frame limiter and using vsync?

Assuming you set the limiter to 60 fps, and you had a 60Hz screen, whats the difference?

The frame limiter won't eliminate screen tear, since it's not actually synced with the monitor. At the same time, I think it will avoid input lag, which is something you can get with vsync.

Found this thread about it: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=227038

I tried both, and I didn't like how the frame limiter affected the game play. It seemed like it introduced some stutter. If the Adaptive Vsync is fixed, then I'll just be using that anyway.

Haven't tried the new drivers on my 670, but I spent a good amount of time benching and playing Batman: AC on my 460 yesterday. using 304.48. Despite the claims, I didn't see higher performance with the new drivers, but I'm pretty CPU-limited anyway with my e8400. I never even came close to 60fps and can't report anything about how well the new vsync works. That being said, over many hours of gameplay, I didn't have a single crash, so that's a good sign...

 

[imaheadcase]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2252897

so no one else gets this..yet i've got it for 2 years?

 

[The_Golden_Man]

Discovered a bug with these new drivers. As I was testing The Witcher 2 using only one of my GTX 670's I discovered a terrible, constant stuttering as I was in the 55 -65FPS range with Vsync disabled. This did not happen with the WHQL's, and not when using SLI (Pretty much over 100FPS all the time).

 

[cmdrdredd]

I see no point. again all that technically does is keep you from dropping below base clocks in undemanding scenarios.

I'd rather get my Max performance. My understanding is that part of the vsync issue stems from this being set to adaptive. At least when people set to Max performance, some improvement seems to be noticed.

 

[blackened23]

The adaptive setting dictates when and where the GPU will downclock and to what extent. As an example, when you use the adaptive setting and open chrome, your GPU clocks will remain at their lowest idle state UNLESS you open a flash video. That will be around 315mhz for most people. With prefer maximum performance, chrome will cause the gpu clock to hover around 915mhz.

Now with kepler, this extends to gaming as well. Games that don't utilize the full power of the gpu will downclock below the max boost clocks which you can easily verify with the MSI Afterburner onscreen display. If you play a game that typically runs at 200 fps, such as WoW, you will see that your gpu's will downclock especially in SLI mode - since SLI will make the game run stupid fast.

Now i've only used SLI, but my theory is that the downclocking has something to do with framerate hitching, which makes sense when "prefer maximum performance" helps remedy the issue. I suspect this issue happens less on single GPUs because they will much less frequently run into issues where a game is running 300 fps. With SLI that happens more often - I found vsync hitching happened A LOT in games that were slightly older with really, really high framerates.

 

[zubbs1]

is the beta stable, and what could be the risk about using this beta?

Also, what is the difference between a whql driver and a beta. How long before a beta becomes whql?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Also, what is the difference between a whql driver and a beta. How long before a beta becomes whql?

The beta is stable. What the beta does is introduce fixes and performance tweaks that nvidia wants people to try. They want feedback. They have things in them that the whql doesn't have. When nvidia is confident that they are as solid as they can make them right now they will go through the whql signing process.

Now I am not versed in the particulars of whql stuff but this is my basic understanding. The worst that can happen is they crash a game or you don't get the fixes promised. In that case you can install the older set.

 

[zubbs1]

The beta is stable. What the beta does is introduce fixes and performance tweaks that nvidia wants people to try. They want feedback. They have things in them that the whql doesn't have. When ncifia is confident that they are as solid as they can make them right now they will go through the whql signing process.

Now I am not versed in the particulars of whql stuff but this is my basic understanding. The worst that can happen is they crash a game or you don't get the fixes promised. In that case you can install the older set.

Thanks Commander.

 

[toyota]

I'd rather get my Max performance. My understanding is that part of the vsync issue stems from this being set to adaptive. At least when people set to Max performance, some improvement seems to be noticed.

its makes no difference as I have tested the crap out of it. its only going to drop below base clocks in a very undemanding game anyway. it has nothing to do with with boost clocks. plus just the silliest thing such as video will end up keeping your card at high clocks if you enable it globally.


EDIT: these drivers completely screw up Deus Ex HR in DX11. it only runs at 1fps so you have to go to widowed mode to get the game going properly. its crap like this that makes me hate pc gaming. its seems its always something that gets screwed up when they try to fix other screw ups.

 

[cmdrdredd]

its makes no difference as I have tested the crap out of it. its only going to drop below base clocks in a very undemanding game anyway. it has nothing to do with with boost clocks. plus just the silliest thing such as video will end up keeping your card at high clocks if you enable it globally.


EDIT: these drivers completely screw up Deus Ex HR in DX11. it only runs at 1fps so you have to go to widowed mode to get the game going properly. its crap like this that makes me hate pc gaming. its seems its always something that gets screwed up when they try to fix other screw ups.

makes no difference for you. There have been people here who said it helped, also on guru3d some people say it helped.

Besides that I don't care if my card is clocked high all the time. It idles at 40c anyway.

 

[toyota]

makes no difference for you. There have been people here who said it helped, also on guru3d some people say it helped.

Besides that I don't care if my card is clocked high all the time. It idles at 40c anyway.

if it made a difference then something was wrong with their card or driver in the first place. many of the people saying it helped are referring to boost clocks which that settings has NO impact on in the first place. and again something as stupid as a flash movie will make it run full base clocks and use 50% more power than it needs to. and it will stay at those clocks until whatever that is is closed.

 

[cmdrdredd]

if it made a difference then something was wrong with their card or driver in the first place. many of the people saying it helped are referring to boost clocks which that settings has NO impact on in the first place. and again something as stupid as a flash movie will make it run full base clocks and use 50% more power than it needs to. and it will stay at those clocks until whatever that is is closed.

Oh wow...so I spend another dollar a month. It's not that much to me.

As for your other point...there's way too many people saying that selecting max performance helps some, for it to be overlooked as a possible solution to some of the issue. If it doesn't fix whatever is happening for you fine, but there's a lot of people who mention it helping the stuttering so I feel it's worth mentioning anyway.

 

[blackened23]

You can use MSI Afterburner or Precision to limit FPS when not using Vsync.

The FPS limiter does not eliminate tearing. If I lock FPS at 60, I get tearing, only vsync fixes this.

My post was only pertaining to the 301.42 driver, 304 is much improved in regards to hitching, most games are fixed.

 

[toyota]

Oh wow...so I spend another dollar a month. It's not that much to me.

As for your other point...there's way too many people saying that selecting max performance helps some, for it to be overlooked as a possible solution to some of the issue.

its not the few dollars that matter. its just stupid to use 50% more power than needed to do something simple. I want my card to clock back down too and I dont want to have to search through tabs to see what the heck is still keeping it a full base clocks. and what some other people say is useless to me if I have tested and confirmed for myself that it does nothing. again most of the people thinking max performance helps think it impacts the boost clocks so that shows just how misinformed they are in the fist place.

 

[The_Golden_Man]

The FPS limiter does not eliminate tearing. If I lock FPS at 60, I get tearing, only vsync fixes this.

My post was only pertaining to the 301.42 driver, 304 is much improved in regards to hitching, most games are fixed.

I know. One reason to use FPS limiter is to lock it at let's say 200FPS, so you don't get 2000FPS in some game menus and stuff.

Also, when not using Vsync, I avoid screen tearing when I'm about 80FPS +. This is good enough reason for me to have GTX 670 SLI, even if I just game in 1920x1200. Vsync off is so much better. No input lag and much more fluid. And to also avoid screen tearing is just the icing on the cake for me :biggrin:

But hey, there is a reason I use the 'The_Golden_Man' as my nick :biggrin:

 

[toyota]

The FPS limiter does not eliminate tearing. If I lock FPS at 60, I get tearing, only vsync fixes this.

My post was only pertaining to the 301.42 driver, 304 is much improved in regards to hitching, most games are fixed.

yes it seems that about 95% of the stuttering is fixed.

 

[blackened23]

I know. One reason to use FPS limiter is to lock it at let's say 200FPS, so you don't get 2000FPS in some game menus and stuff.

Also, when not using Vsync, I avoid screen tearing when I'm about 80FPS +. This is good enough reason for me to have GTX 670 SLI, even if I just game in 1920x1200. Vsync off is so much better. No input lag and much more fluid. And to also avoid screen tearing is just the icing on the cake for me :biggrin:

I hear people mention input lag when vsync is on, but I get no input lag. I use a logitech G9x which to my knowledge has coding in the driver to prevent input lag with vsync.

Anyway, when using the native windows driver I get input lag but not with the logitech one. Logitech is releasing a 14 button mouse next month, it will be mine I love logitech for peripherals though.

 

[The_Golden_Man]

I hear people mention input lag when vsync is on, but I get no input lag. I use a logitech G9x which to my knowledge has coding in the driver to prevent input lag with vsync.

Anyway, when using the native windows driver I get input lag but not with the logitech one. Logitech is releasing a 14 button mouse next month, it will be mine I love logitech for peripherals though.

Not only the input lag, but I also noticed a big difference using one GTX 670 VS two in SLI in The Witcher 2, Vsync Off. With one card I get 60 FPS +, With two cards I'm well past 100FPS, and it feels much smoother VS 60FPS +

 

[blackened23]

Not only the input lag, but I also noticed a big difference using one GTX 670 VS two in SLI in The Witcher 2, Vsync Off. With one card I get 60 FPS +, With two cards I'm well past 100FPS, and it feels much smoother VS 60FPS +

I really hate tearing and you can't avoid that without a 120hz panel...., and most of the time you still get it - SLI is limited to 100 fps on 120hz panels. So you will occasionally still get a little tearing.

Tearing is a deal breaker for me, can't stand it. Although, 120hz would be a done deal if I weren't limited to 1080p.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I hear people mention input lag when vsync is on, but I get no input lag. I use a logitech G9x which to my knowledge has coding in the driver to prevent input lag with vsync.

Anyway, when using the native windows driver I get input lag but not with the logitech one. Logitech is releasing a 14 button mouse next month, it will be mine I love logitech for peripherals though.

I really only notice input lag on FPS games. Most of the time I play a single player game with vsync on (I use adaptive) because I find really bad screen tearing to be more annoying than some input lag. Adaptive vsync doesn't totally remove tearing but it helps and it also helps keep the fps from doing the major drop to 30 or 20.

 

[The_Golden_Man]

I really hate tearing and you can't avoid that without a 120hz panel...., and most of the time you still get it - SLI is limited to 100 fps on 120hz panels. So you will occasionally still get a little tearing.

Tearing is a deal breaker for me, can't stand it. Although, 120hz would be a done deal if I weren't limited to 1080p.

Here is the thing, I'm using a 60Hz panel. And in the Witcher 2 I get no screen tearing in SLI, when I get 80FPS +. I will test further in other games.

I too hate screen tearing. By all means

 

[SolMiester]

Diablo 3 doesn't have stutter issues on its own, the drivers were just broken. See here: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=226227 The game was fine on 79xx and smooth with vsync enabled, but stuttered on the 680 with ingame vsync on - this is from having used both in D3. I'll see if these drivers fix it, hopefully it is. Interesting instead of holding nvidia accountable for their driver error, users immediately bash AMD as if that somehow pertains to nvidias driver bug...lol...whatever...

Edit: Holy CRAP these drivers improve Batman : AC performance with physX a TON. I can run physx high now with very little performance penalty, before with 301.42 there was a performance penalty for physx HIGH. Loving these drivers so far, will try diablo 3 later after work. With these drivers many scenes are now 25-30 fps higher with high phsyx enabled in Batman: AC......wow.....there's no reason to NOT have physx turned on in this game now.

Haven't tried 3dmark yet either...you better be ready wednesday Don the "beast" is nearly finished!

Sorry, but PhysX is just a gimmick with no noticeable benefit...allegedly!../joke