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Gays in the military?

V

Valhalla1

Diamond Member
Alright... lets hear it.

For or against? and reasons why/why not.

I'll start off by going out on a limb and saying I'm against it. Gays can do whatever they want on their own time, (as long as it doesn't involve me!) or whatever, do your thing. but in the military, you are on the goverments time and the country's time, and I think it causes more problems than necessary.

now.. everyone flame me and lets get this over with. lol
 
not that I am gay myself, but why should they be discriminated against just because of their sexuality? I mean, they are humans too, aren't they? So what you are saying is that just because they are gay that means that they are less competent and will not perform better than the straight men in the military? That doesn't make sense and the argument just loses all credibility there.

my deux cents.
 
Apparently you haven't noticed how much trouble the straight guys in the military cause (don't say it's just an aberrant few; if you can attack gays for causing problems just for existing, I'm certainly going to go after the straights that deliberately cause problems).

If they aren't harassing the straight guys, then I see no problem, just like the guys aren't allowed to harass women in the military (oh wait, that's another one of those things that the straight guys DO get to do in the military, with consent from their superiors quite often).

What's being on the government's time and money got to do with it? They're doing their jobs aren't they? What they do after hours is up to them, just like it's up to the straight guys.

Also, what 'problems' does it cause that aren't worth it to you? Any 'problems' are caused by all the straight guys that fear for their own masculinity when they're around a gay man and feel that they need to harass gays and make life unbearable when they try to do the same thing: serving their country and their fellow citizens and making a living.

Of course, I personally think the military is overloaded anyway. So to me, I thank them for making the policy that gays and bi's can't be in the military. (Don't ask don't tell? I'm sure as hell going to tell, even if I don't flaunt it.)
 
Don't ask don't tell is the stupidest thing in the world. Lesseee...in order to have the 'privilege' of getting low pay, having to work my ass off, getting shot at occasionally, being mentally and physically abused by my superiors during and after training, risking my life daily (just day to day operations kill lotsa people in the military) and becoming a war mongering military moron...all that and all I have to do is deny something most basic to who I am and avoid any indications of my sexuality, and not be able to be seen asking someone out or worse, kissing someone...? Sign me up!

Oh wait, I forgot that I'd also get to be around people that would probably lynch me if they found out the truth, AND get to watch them act in any way they want to and express their own humanity and sexuality on a constant basis.
 
I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with gays in the military.

In fact, if you look at the question historically, it is kind of a ridiculous thing to worry about... LOL, the military has long been a bastion of same-sex attraction/love!

A good military has nothing to do with the sexual orientation of the individual members.

I hardly think the drag queen stereotype of gay man is going to join the military... the gays in the military are usually those big masculine hunks you would never DREAM were gay.... sigh. I've known all kinds of gays, and they can be the most conservative people you would ever imagine.

Just my .02

Peace!
 


<< no one asked... >>



You don't have to ask. As soon as your commander saw you kissing his male assistant good night after dropping him off at midnight, he'd probably be able to make the connection. The only way to avoid that would be...not dating, not talking about it, nothing, and/or pretending to be straight.
 
I don't have a clue? Then clue me in genius. I may have the specifics of the policy wrong (since I never considered military service, even actively declined to consider it, and knew from the start that whatever the policy was it wouldn't be all that good, I didn't really pay much attention to it, but I can see that it's made no real difference) but I do know that &quot;don't ask don't tell&quot; is far from &quot;If you're willing, we'll welcome you&quot;.

As a non-heterosexual I DO KNOW that anything other than &quot;we don't care one way or the other and it's not even an issue that needs discussion&quot; is active discrimination against me by the government and the military. I don't need to know the particulars of the policy in order to know that I don't consider it a good thing.
 
well, okay.. to those that say its okay. let me post another question.

is it okay for a man and a woman, who are not dating or have anything but a professional relationship in a workplace, to shower together, to sleep together (not have sex, but sleep next to, same room, etc. on a daily basis), etc. ?
 
No gays in the military. Most people feel very akward having some gay guy around, and I have no doubt I would feel akward either. If the people are feeling akward/nervous/not concentrated on the task at hand, this would cause many problems.

If you eliminate distractions, you greatly reduce the risk of having a problem.
 
if I'm aiming down saddamn in my weapon I dont want to have to worry about wether my infantry-mate here is checking out my ass
 
So the solution is to prevent gays from doing the same things that a straight man can do, rather than addressing the underlying issue of homophobia and the fact that the straight people would feel awkward?

And yes valhalla, it is okay as long as they're all aware of the situation and the circumstances. And if something happens bad, then severe punishment is given out to those that did it, and it's made well known what will happen and the punishment is public when handed out. I have no problems with a co-ed shower. As long as both sides know that nothing will happen, nothing will happen (the particular physical aspects CAN be ignored and are on a daily basis by millions of people; they're called naturists).

If your infantry-mate is looking at your ass in the middle of a battle, then there was a supreme failure somewhere in the training process, and he should have been eliminated from the system long before that. Outside of a battle situation, as long as it doesn't interfere with his work, why should it interfere with yours? You think the straight guys aren't staring at the women in the military all the time? Does that affect their performance, or the women's?
 
Valhalla,

The only response I can give to your question is this:

There are very few people who I am sexually attracted to, period. I could shower with 1,000 men and never be moved to passion.

I would imagine that it would be better to keep people who cannot control themselves out of the military rather than assume gay men are there for some kind of smorgasboard of flesh.

If a person can demonstrate self-control and discipline, that is enough.

My faith requires me to refrain from judging others, regardless of their percieved 'sin' or 'aberration'. Frankly, I think good people are good people, and something like sexual orientation is minor. Even Russ would agree... I'm sure he has mentioned this before in an earlier thread about gays.

Just my .02

and I bid you all good night....
 
yeah, sure YOU are fine with co-ed showers, you arent interested in the most beautiful thing in the world - the naked female form. but for hetero's, co-ed means a little something different. there are women in the military. are they allowed to shower/bunk with the males? no. should gay's? you tell me
 
Whats wrong with feeling akward around gays? They are the ones that have the problem. Being a queer is not normal. If it was, people would accept it.
 
the debate wasn't whether you would be &quot;moved to passion&quot;, I'm sure random acts of consentual sex woundn't be occuring. rape on the other hand is more highly likely.

but it was the argument of being uncomfortable, causing tension etc. hell, in todays workplace you can't even wink at a female co-worker withouth getting slapped with a sexual harassment lawsuit, and you tell me that co-ed showering would be no problem as long as everyone &quot;keeps their hands to themselves&quot;?
 
Valhalla1,



<< is it okay for a man and a woman, who are not dating or have anything but a professional relationship in a workplace, to shower together, to sleep together (not have sex, but sleep next to, same room, etc. on a daily basis), etc. ? >>



I've done everything you just stated except for shower with the girl. There weren't any problems whatsoever and there was not one iota of attraction between us. There's absolutely nothing wrong in that statement. While it might uncomfortable for a man and woman to shower together (I think it would be moreso for the male...) I can't see a problem.

Homophobic people are so scared that homosexuals are specifically attracted to them. Homosexuals are people too...just like us straight people don't go ga ga goo goo over every single person of the opposite sex that we meet, so too don't homosexuals. Personally I think homophobic people should just get over their stupid little fears...if you aren't gay nothing's gonna happen since it takes two to tango. Perhaps therein lies the problem...straight people who freak out that they have homosexual tendencies😉

-GL
 
Actually I'm quite pleased with the appearance of the female form. I never said I was gay.

Could I shower with women and men? Certainly. Would I feel strange? At first, yes, simply because I'd feel strange showering with other people, but I'd get over it during the first few days of boot camp. Would I try anything in the showers? No. Afterwards? Not unless I was otherwise interested. Would it probably be obvious to anyone looking that I was in a roomful of wet naked people? Probably would be the first time and every time.

As I said, why not have the men and women showering together? The only reason I know of is that the straight men in the military can't control themselves and there would be violence and harm to the women (and probably to the genitals of several of the men). Do you really think that a gay man in the showers is going to do some of the things that straight men have done in the military?
 


<< So what happens when you drop your soap? >>



Same thing that happens when a woman bends over in public. Somebody's going to look, and then stop looking, and you'd never know it, and probably wouldn't care, and after a while, nobody would look anymore because they'd seen it. You think some gay guys going to just take you right there in the showers against your will? No, that's what the straight guys do to women that aren't even nude or in anything like a sexual situation.
 
okay, this is complete b.s.

did you have co-ed showers in high school gym class? NO.
does the military ? no.
do college dorms? no.
etc.

why? because it causes problems. maybe I'm just upset that when I was in high school I couldt hop in the shower with all those hot steamy wet naked girls.. mmm.. but gays in the military get to shower and sleep with, etc. all the men they want
 
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