Heisenberg
Lifer
Let me put this another way. Say that you started hanging out with someone who was gay. What do you think are the odds that you'd become gay?
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gay rights right?
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rommelrommel
Diamond Member
Man, you own. Personally I think someone has the right to believe in Naziflatearththingsfallupism if they want. Now, it's also my right to believe that they're a complete and utter moron, but fair is fair.
I only get pissed of when people start saying not only do I have to tolerate everyone, but I also have to believe that they are right. I can't beat gay people in the street? That's fine, don't want to anyways, but when you tell me that I can't think that it's a disgusting lifestyle, and that my kids (god forbid I ever have any) have to be taught that being gay is ok, then I get pissed.
I'm asking, don't confuse me asking a question with what I believe. BTW I've talked to many people who believe that gays completly make a choice and they choose to not be heterosexual. People have different opinions on everything. And we're entitled to them.........right?
Heisenberg
Lifer
If you realize why you're 100% sure it wouldn't happen, then you'll know the answer to your question.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
when dealing with something as fundamental as this, you can only know the answer that would apply to yourself. what would you do? what could you do? only certain answer you'll get is your own. would you be converted, could you possibly converted.
i have a feeling those that truely have thought about it and still think it to be a choice, are themselves somewhere closer to the bisexual end of the sexual spectrum and/or are simply in denial.
Heisenberg
Lifer
Well, the point I was trying to get at is that the vast majority of people have a fixed set of values, and that it's usually very hard to change those values, and impossible to do so against someone's will. But I think we've strayed from the original discussion, so I'm going to just drop it.
that's cool, it is important to figure out if it is at all choice. However, I was wondering about the billboard. No one has really said whether or not it should stay up. I'm sure my brother-in-law and sis will make some calls to try and get it down. The really sad part is that some one spray painted on one of the: "Reseda is not for queers" kinda sucks that some one had to be retarded. What do you guys think? take it down/leave it up?
Leave it up. Would someone want to take down a billboard featuring a man and woman kissing? So why do it for two guys? People spend WAY too much time caring what other people are doing in this country. IF you don't want to see the billboard, don't look at it; if you don't like the TV show you're watching, change the fvcking station; if you don't like the song you're listening to, change the station. People seem to have forgotten about the simple fact of CHOICE and instead prefer that everyone listen to THEIR definition of how things should be. Well, shock of shocks, not everyone believes the same things.
You can't "change" the billboard that's on the way to the 711. Also, I think that people are concerned for the children (not themselves). Obviously billboards have a huge effect on young people because the tobaco industry is no longer allowed to use this type of advertisement. Does that in any way make you think differently?
Siddhartha
Lifer
I have not seen or heard anything that convinces me that homophobia or the demand that some people make that homosexuals should not be treat like people is anything but bigotry.
People can pray anywhere they want. What is unconstitutional is having a government organization lead or sponsor prayer and religious beliefs.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
People can pray anywhere they want. What is unconstitutional is having a government organization lead or sponsor prayer and religious beliefs.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
bananaFish
Member
Nice post!
Your brother in law and sister are entitled to have what ever opinion they deem appropriate and are entitled to express it in their own way provided that expression does not infringe on anyone else?s right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This presents a slight contradiction.
The real question is not who is right or wrong, but who is morally right or wrong. Just as your brother in law and sister are entitled to their opinion, I'm entitled to my opinion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but who's to decide who is morally correct.
When speaking of homosexual and heterosexual relationships one crosses the boundary of church and state, of religious and political, and thus forfeits their right to lobby for or pass judgment on said issue.
The only true solution, or answer to these questions, is to understand that no one individuals view point is absolute.
Your brother in law and sister are entitled to have what ever opinion they deem appropriate and are entitled to express it in their own way provided that expression does not infringe on anyone else?s right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This presents a slight contradiction.
The real question is not who is right or wrong, but who is morally right or wrong. Just as your brother in law and sister are entitled to their opinion, I'm entitled to my opinion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but who's to decide who is morally correct.
When speaking of homosexual and heterosexual relationships one crosses the boundary of church and state, of religious and political, and thus forfeits their right to lobby for or pass judgment on said issue.
The only true solution, or answer to these questions, is to understand that no one individuals view point is absolute.
The whole point of such thing as a "right" is that it is something that can get exercised without causing undue harm or danger to another person.
For example, I can call some guy who bumps into me on campus an asshole, without much chance of legal repercussion (besides maybe an ensuing fight). There, I am exercising my right to free speech - it does not cause him harm, or put him in any danger. If I shout "fire" in the middle of a crowded theater, I am exercising my right to free speech, but I'll be prosecuted and put in jail for a while because I put 60 or so people in danger and possibly caused them physical harm. (this is the obvious rebuttal to your conjecture about the person who likes to kill and rape people - besides, this is not a "view", these are actions, and there are obvious prohibitions against certain types of actions)
This billboard does not, as far as I can see, cause your brother any physical harm or put him in any danger. It may offend his tastes, but as long as it conforms to the community's standards of decency (another issue), he has little to no recourse. If your brother is openly against homosexuality, that is his choice. I know many people that do not agree with homosexuality or the lifestyle espoused therein. However, if he were to go out and physically rip apart two gay men kissing in a club, he would be infringing on their right to self-expression and (again) possibly causing them harm.
For example, I can call some guy who bumps into me on campus an asshole, without much chance of legal repercussion (besides maybe an ensuing fight). There, I am exercising my right to free speech - it does not cause him harm, or put him in any danger. If I shout "fire" in the middle of a crowded theater, I am exercising my right to free speech, but I'll be prosecuted and put in jail for a while because I put 60 or so people in danger and possibly caused them physical harm. (this is the obvious rebuttal to your conjecture about the person who likes to kill and rape people - besides, this is not a "view", these are actions, and there are obvious prohibitions against certain types of actions)
This billboard does not, as far as I can see, cause your brother any physical harm or put him in any danger. It may offend his tastes, but as long as it conforms to the community's standards of decency (another issue), he has little to no recourse. If your brother is openly against homosexuality, that is his choice. I know many people that do not agree with homosexuality or the lifestyle espoused therein. However, if he were to go out and physically rip apart two gay men kissing in a club, he would be infringing on their right to self-expression and (again) possibly causing them harm.
Once again, are you 100% sure? I think that they are worried that their kids will grow up thinking that it is ok to be gay, when their belief is that it is wrong. They don't want to kill gays, and will let gays be gays, but they don't want an ad to influence the people around them. Also, the tobacco companies didn't get their billboards shut down because kids were choosing a certain brand, but because they were smoking. It promoted smoking, gay billboards promote gayness.
poopaskoopa
Diamond Member
What does gayness mean to you. Becoming gay, or accepting homosexuality. There's a distinct difference between the two. Some of my friends are gay, and that's not affected my digging the ladies. Also, I want the anti-gay people to step up and offer solutions. What do you want and how would you accomplish it? So you want homosexuality to be vanished. For those who think homosexuality is wrong, should not be tolerated, etc, what should be done? Put gays in a separate camp? Ship them off to Gayland? "Convert" them back to digging the opposite sex(and how)? Anti-smoking crowd works towards its goals by crying about smoking, and through lawsuits. What do you think anti-gay groups can/should do to achieve their goals?
slackerinabox
Lifer
Dude, you seriously have me cracking up here! I can't believe that you're in college! "I believe the children are the future....."
slackerinabox
Lifer
HAhah.. TALIBAN BOY! Priceless!
slackerinabox
Lifer
If some redneck, christian, ignorant bastards (I know redneck is an ignorant term.. Shut up..) did succeed in bringing down the sign then my gf and I would be the first ones to grab some markers and poster board to make some signs with catchy slogans protesting the decision.. Really, think about it? I believe in common rules of decency - nudity, violence (gore), and profanity should not be publicly displayed (gotta worry about the kids)..but if you consider the image of two people kissing (same sex or not) obscene then you open yourself and the world up to some disturbing implications - should we go back and edit out scenes of lucy and dezi kissing on i love lucy? Kissing between heteros is G-rated, why is kissing amoung homosexuals profane? Also, think of what that ad is trying to teach - AIDs education.. It got your attention, didn't it? Then that's a successful ad!
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