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gay people are everyday people?!?

aidanjm

Lifer
A question: why is it acceptable to promote abstinence in schools (abstinence is a particular take on sexual morality) but not acceptable to promote anti-homophobia messages in schools? One of the parents in this article says schools "shouldn't be promoting sexuality of any kind" -- but of course, promotion of abstinence is certainly a promotion of a certain form of sexuality and a certain form of sexual morality. Why the double standard? I would argue that this poster is not really about sex, per se, and more a call for people to treat gay people decently. That should not be controversial, es even the xian religions are generally seen as opposing bigotry (love the sinner, hate the sin, etc.) Whereas abstinence education is definitately promoting a certain kind of sexuality and sexual morality in schools to a "captive audience".




Protest Against School's Gay Diversity Posters Backfires

by Fidel Ortega 365Gay.com Miami Bureau

May 30, 2005 8:00 pm ET

(Troy Michigan) Protests from conservative Christian parents over a poster in a Troy High School classroom that contained the message that "gay people are everyday people," has backfired.

Instead of forcing the school to remove the poster from the classroom other teachers have ordered copies for their rooms.

The poster had been on the wall in the English Department room for two years with no objections until earlier this month when a parent protested to the Troy School Board. (story)

Anthony Cruz, 49, who has two daughters at the school said Troy High is supposed to concentrate on academics and leave other matters for after-school time and activities. Instead, the classroom poster has a "a captive audience," in students, Cruz said.

But Patricia Raezler, 55, a member of Parents Promoting Innocence in Bloomfield Hills, which supports Troy parents in the poster issue, said the school shouldn't be promoting sexuality of any kind.

"We are promoting innocence," said Raezler, whose children attend private school. "Once, these types of things were left up to the parents. Then there was a push to inform and let pupils know about sexuality. It hasn't decreased sexually transmitted diseases."

But, despite threats of retaliation by Cruz, 25 more posters have been ordered.

"Now there's going to be 26 at the school," Leslie Thompson, executive director of Affirmations Gay/Lesbian Community Center, which distributes the posters, told the Detroit News.

"I'm really rather proud of the district, the school and the teachers for standing by their gay students," she said. "(The poster) is really a strong message for those kids."

District spokesman Tim McAvoy confirmed that at least four new posters went up recently.

"The students requested the poster to show all people deserve respect and tolerance, and should not be harassed for any reason," McAvoy said. "The poster ensures student safety through a message of tolerance and respect."

But, Cruz isn't backing down, saying the posters promote a sexual lifestyle that is against Judeo-Christian beliefs.

"I am here to censor their attempts to promote that lifestyle on my children," he told the News. "We do not want them to try and change our children."

 
But, Cruz isn't backing down, saying the posters promote a sexual lifestyle that is against Judeo-Christian beliefs.

"I am here to censor their attempts to promote that lifestyle on my children," he told the News. "We do not want them to try and change our children."

Man do I hate that argument. Nobody is trying to make your children gay, chances are your children will do whatever they were going to do anyways. The point is one of tolerance, exactly the opposite view this idiot is talking about. He sees it as "promoting a lifestyle" because he himself is incapable of tolerating other views. In other words, he sees the world as his views and people trying to change his views because that's how he behaves. He would never put up a pro-Christian tolerance poster with the goal of making sure people are tolerant of Christianity, his goal would be to convert everyone from their "wrong" beliefs. So he's incapable of seeing how other people might have different objectives in mind.

And honestly, are parents REALLY concerned that exposure to homosexuality will make their kids gay? Because I'm here to tell you, I certainly knew about it when I was a kid, and it had to appeal to me 😉 What exactly are parents concerned about here?
 
Abstinence is a lack of sexuality, not a form of it. And it is taught because abstinence is the safest way to prevent STDs, unwanted pregnancy, etc.

They aren't promoting heretosexual contact, why should they promote homosexual contact? Schools should only teach contraception and monogamy and how to be safe regardless of which path you decide to take.

Rainsford, kids are affected by things. The media, peers, teachers, celebrities, etc.

Stop forcing the gay agenda into our public schools. :thumbsdown:
 
Originally posted by: zendari
Abstinence is a lack of sexuality, not a form of it. And it is taught because abstinence is the safest way to prevent STDs, unwanted pregnancy, etc.

Exactly, abstinence is a policy regarding health.

We don't have to teach kids to be tolerant of African Americans, or Native Americans, or Jews, so why Homosexuals?

Edit: If we keep going in this direction, we will have the most tolerant, most kind, considerate, kids ever. But they'll be as dumb as a rock. Kids already are failing English, Math, Science, Geography, the list goes on.
 
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: zendari
Abstinence is a lack of sexuality, not a form of it. And it is taught because abstinence is the safest way to prevent STDs, unwanted pregnancy, etc.

Exactly, abstinence is a policy regarding health.

We don't have to teach kids to be tolerant of African Americans, or Native Americans, or Jews....
We don't? What planet are you posting from?


 
We don't have to teach kids to be tolerant of African Americans, or Native Americans, or Jews, so why Homosexuals?
Lets add on:

Christians, white men, the wealthy, and Republicans to this list.
 
It's true. Gay people are everyday people. Just sounds like the poster is stating a fact, but also enforcing an unspoken rule. Everyone is different. Get used to it.
 
Originally posted by: phantom309
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: zendari
Abstinence is a lack of sexuality, not a form of it. And it is taught because abstinence is the safest way to prevent STDs, unwanted pregnancy, etc.

Exactly, abstinence is a policy regarding health.

We don't have to teach kids to be tolerant of African Americans, or Native Americans, or Jews....
We don't? What planet are you posting from?

Uh... Earth. I graduated high school in '94, never had any kind of class, activity, or lecture, or anything teaching tolerance of a race, gender, creed, whatever. I guess it was something we just learned on our own, or from our parents.
 
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: zendari
We don't have to teach kids to be tolerant of African Americans, or Native Americans, or Jews, so why Homosexuals?
Lets add on:

Christians, white men, the wealthy, and Republicans to this list.

One day, we may need to.
Yeah it would suck if us White Guys were treated like Gays, Blacks and other Minorities.

 
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: zendari
We don't have to teach kids to be tolerant of African Americans, or Native Americans, or Jews, so why Homosexuals?
Lets add on:

Christians, white men, the wealthy, and Republicans to this list.

One day, we may need to.
Yeah it would suck if us White Guys were treated like Gays, Blacks and other Minorities.

😀 Touché

Actually, go through a few neighborhoods here in Memphis, and you'll feel like a Jew in Palestine.:laugh:
 
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: zendari
We don't have to teach kids to be tolerant of African Americans, or Native Americans, or Jews, so why Homosexuals?
Lets add on:

Christians, white men, the wealthy, and Republicans to this list.

One day, we may need to.
Yeah it would suck if us White Guys were treated like Gays, Blacks and other Minorities.

😀 Touché

Actually, go through a few neighborhoods here in Memphis, and you'll feel like a Jew in Palestine.:laugh:

Well there is no hope for Tennessee but looks like there is still hope for Michigan to survive the Bigamist, Hypocratic and discriminatory onslaught by the Religious running the Country.
 
Originally posted by: bamacre
Exactly, abstinence is a policy regarding health.

When abstinence is the main focus of a health policy, it tends to be because of religious reasons. As such it stops being a health policy and a religious policy.
 
Originally posted by: Rainsford
But, Cruz isn't backing down, saying the posters promote a sexual lifestyle that is against Judeo-Christian beliefs.

"I am here to censor their attempts to promote that lifestyle on my children," he told the News. "We do not want them to try and change our children."

Man do I hate that argument. Nobody is trying to make your children gay, chances are your children will do whatever they were going to do anyways. The point is one of tolerance, exactly the opposite view this idiot is talking about. He sees it as "promoting a lifestyle" because he himself is incapable of tolerating other views. In other words, he sees the world as his views and people trying to change his views because that's how he behaves. He would never put up a pro-Christian tolerance poster with the goal of making sure people are tolerant of Christianity, his goal would be to convert everyone from their "wrong" beliefs. So he's incapable of seeing how other people might have different objectives in mind.

And honestly, are parents REALLY concerned that exposure to homosexuality will make their kids gay? Because I'm here to tell you, I certainly knew about it when I was a kid, and it had to appeal to me 😉 What exactly are parents concerned about here?



Exactly.

I was raised around a gay male couple who were my parents best friends. When I was young, I never questioned it. As I got older, I asked my parents questions and they gave me the basics. They never said being gay was 'right', nor that it was 'wrong'. And I can tell you it never swayed me into thinking I wanted to be gay myself.

To this day, I'm proud of my parents for that. It made me a more tolerant person, who appreciated people for what they were inside, not the labels society puts forth.
 
Originally posted by: IndieSnob
Originally posted by: Rainsford
But, Cruz isn't backing down, saying the posters promote a sexual lifestyle that is against Judeo-Christian beliefs.

"I am here to censor their attempts to promote that lifestyle on my children," he told the News. "We do not want them to try and change our children."

Man do I hate that argument. Nobody is trying to make your children gay, chances are your children will do whatever they were going to do anyways. The point is one of tolerance, exactly the opposite view this idiot is talking about. He sees it as "promoting a lifestyle" because he himself is incapable of tolerating other views. In other words, he sees the world as his views and people trying to change his views because that's how he behaves. He would never put up a pro-Christian tolerance poster with the goal of making sure people are tolerant of Christianity, his goal would be to convert everyone from their "wrong" beliefs. So he's incapable of seeing how other people might have different objectives in mind.

And honestly, are parents REALLY concerned that exposure to homosexuality will make their kids gay? Because I'm here to tell you, I certainly knew about it when I was a kid, and it had to appeal to me 😉 What exactly are parents concerned about here?



Exactly.

I was raised around a gay male couple who were my parents best friends. When I was young, I never questioned it. As I got older, I asked my parents questions and they gave me the basics. They never said being gay was 'right', nor that it was 'wrong'. And I can tell you it never swayed me into thinking I wanted to be gay myself.

To this day, I'm proud of my parents for that. It made me a more tolerant person, who appreciated people for what they were inside, not the labels society puts forth.

:beer: and :wine: for your parents 😉
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: zendari
We don't have to teach kids to be tolerant of African Americans, or Native Americans, or Jews, so why Homosexuals?
Lets add on:

Christians, white men, the wealthy, and Republicans to this list.

One day, we may need to.
Yeah it would suck if us White Guys were treated like Gays, Blacks and other Minorities.

😀 Touché

Actually, go through a few neighborhoods here in Memphis, and you'll feel like a Jew in Palestine.:laugh:

Well there is no hope for Tennessee but looks like there is still hope for Michigan to survive the Bigamist, Hypocratic and discriminatory onslaught by the Religious running the Country.


WTF? Please explain.
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: bamacre
Exactly, abstinence is a policy regarding health.

When abstinence is the main focus of a health policy, it tends to be because of religious reasons. As such it stops being a health policy and a religious policy.


Are you saying it's impossible to teach abstinence without including religious reasons? Or are you saying we shouldn't teach abstinence because it happens to be a religious policy? Should we teach kids how to drink responsibly?
 
I think it is sending more than a little bit of a mixed message to promote abstinence but then to promote tolerance OR intolerance of homosexuals. . .either way. You are saying out of one side of your mouth "Don't have sex at all with anybody" and then out the other side of your mouth saying "Be tolerant of people who have homosexual sex." The message should be the same for everybody. If you promote abstinence, then apply it to everybody. If your aim is for nobody to have sex, then it shouldn't matter if you are tolerant or intolerant of homosexuals. No sex. Period. To me it's exactly the same as promoting abstinence then handing out free condoms. It's two-faced and confusing. Abstinence is not, as you say, a form of sexuality. It is exactly the opposite. It is lack of sexuality. Therefore, if you are going to promote no sex, then whether or not you are pro or anti homosexual should be irrelevant. So as I see it, it is equally wrong in this case to promote any view on homosexuality at all if your general view is abstinence is king.
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: bamacre
Are you saying it's impossible to teach abstinence without including religious reasons?
Nope. Not saying that.

Or are you saying we shouldn't teach abstinence because it happens to be a religious policy.
Nope. Not saying that.

Do you think we should teach kids how to drink responsibly?
 
Originally posted by: aidanjm
A question: why is it acceptable to promote abstinence in schools (abstinence is a particular take on sexual morality) but not acceptable to promote anti-homophobia messages in schools? One of the parents in this article says schools "shouldn't be promoting sexuality of any kind" -- but of course, promotion of abstinence is certainly a promotion of a certain form of sexuality and a certain form of sexual morality. Why the double standard? I would argue that this poster is not really about sex, per se, and more a call for people to treat gay people decently. That should not be controversial, es even the xian religions are generally seen as opposing bigotry (love the sinner, hate the sin, etc.) Whereas abstinence education is definitately promoting a certain kind of sexuality and sexual morality in schools to a "captive audience".

So using your logic, agnosticism and Atheism are a form of religion and religious morality?

Yes, that has nothing to do with your so-called point, but I'm trying to understand your logic regarding the "non".

CsG
 
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