Gay marriage and you (religious zealots)

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
If God gave them freedom of choice then why the hell dont you?

god created them to reproduce, and buggering some guy in the rear exit won't get the job done. 🙂

Ding ding ding WINNER

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Well, I love my dog, and I KNOW he loves me. Why shouldn't WE be allowed to get married.

Another bad analogy perhaps, but where DOES it end?

How do you know he wants to marry you? I win. 🙂

 

[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: spunkz

Originally posted by: FoBoT
so many straight people live together without getting married these days, what difference does it make?

why do any non-religious people get married? is there a reason to get married if you don't think it is a sin to live together without marriage?

exactly. people always say, "what business do u have saying they can't get married", but i say "what business do they have getting married in the first place?" give them their unions or whatever and be done with it. if they want legal status as significant other or whatever, that's fine. but don't come in my church and say "you MUST marry us" just because you want a ceremony and a wedding ring and think its your right to have one.

Your church doesnt have to marry them by the way. They can get married without involving any religion at all. You can go get a liscence and be married by a non-minister.

I think most people get confused when they believe that marriage is a religious thing.

I would let the issue drop for now if they had equal rights in that legal status but the fact is that they do not and some states have went so far as to even ban civil unions.

heh, that's why we vote.

And we voted So, sorry. NOT....try again.

For the 1340981703th time; the opinion of the people doesn't somehow make the law "correct" in an absolute sense. Yes, they voted against it, but there's no concrete reason for this law to be on the books. The people are entitled to their opinions, but their opinions shouldn't necessarily be law.

See also: segregation.

so why is it allowed?

If it is on the books then it is kosher and is law. There's nothing preventing it from being such.

It is up to the state to recognize marriage, the state decided it didn't want same-sex marriage. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

My point is that there's no good reason given for the law.

The law does not benefit anyone.

The law does not protect anyone.

Why is it on the books at all?

That's not entirely true. If you have firm belief system that you believe is imperative to pass on to your children and the law allows something that goes against that belief system, wouldn't you view that as hurting your children?

From another approach: Would you be angry if you sent your child to school and his/her teacher taught him/her that it is OK to lie as long as it doesn't hurt anybody? I would, because I think lying would be (I don't have children) detrimental to my child's character. In addition, being taught that lying is OK by somebody he/she should presumably respect will undermine the value system I would wish to confer to him/her. That's not a perfect analogy, but perhaps it will help you see the other side of the issue?

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Well, I love my dog, and I KNOW he loves me. Why shouldn't WE be allowed to get married.

Another bad analogy perhaps, but where DOES it end?

How do you know he wants to marry you? I win. 🙂

How do YOU know he doesn't?

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
If God gave them freedom of choice then why the hell dont you?

god created them to reproduce, and buggering some guy in the rear exit won't get the job done. 🙂

Ding ding ding WINNER

God gave use parts for reproduction. Contraception prevents its original intention. Therefore it should be banned?

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
If God gave them freedom of choice then why the hell dont you?

god created them to reproduce, and buggering some guy in the rear exit won't get the job done. 🙂

Even assuming God has anything to do with it......why does he keep making more gay people? Surely the head of the GA Christian Coalition should have nothing but straight kids, yet she has a lesbian daughter.....how in the world did that happen? 😉

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
If God gave them freedom of choice then why the hell dont you?

god created them to reproduce, and buggering some guy in the rear exit won't get the job done. 🙂

Ding ding ding WINNER

Wrong.

Sterile couples.

Couples who choose not to reproduce.

etc.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: spidey07
Fausto,

I think marijuana should be legal. I think I should be able to grow it and smoke a simple plant...kinda like other cultures do and how other cultures are protected even within the US.

I think it is my right to grow a plant and smoke it.

Society, culture and other people feel otherwise. It isn't hurting them, right? It isn't infringing on their rights, correct?

Yet the people vote and speak "we don't want people growing and smoking marijuana." Their reasons probably range all over the place, but they have their reasons.

So theres a reason why we vote on these things. The will of the people/society get to decide upon their own laws. In a sense we govern ourselves. We could up and decide the speed limit should be 100 MPh, we could even put it up to a vote and if it passed, the speed limit would be 100.

I like how you ignore my post that shows how unreasonable your arguement is.

I again point out.

Slavery as a law that was once agreed upon by the majority and ask you how their agreement that african americans should be servants makes it "kosher."

And I'll point out that at the time, it was kosher. What is "right" and what is "wrong" changes depending on society. the US for example is very different than other societies and has very different views on what is right and wrong.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Well, I love my dog, and I KNOW he loves me. Why shouldn't WE be allowed to get married.

Another bad analogy perhaps, but where DOES it end?

How do you know he wants to marry you? I win. 🙂

How do YOU know he doesn't?

I think the burden of proof is on you.

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
If God gave them freedom of choice then why the hell dont you?

god created them to reproduce, and buggering some guy in the rear exit won't get the job done. 🙂

Even assuming God has anything to do with it......why does he keep making more gay people? Surely the head of the GA Christian Coalition should have nothing but straight kids, yet she has a lesbian daughter.....how in the world did that happen? 😉

i dunno dude, i'm just answering his question. i don't have all of the answers. he brought god into it, not me.

i blame john kerry corrupting the morals of the youth.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
If God gave them freedom of choice then why the hell dont you?

god created them to reproduce, and buggering some guy in the rear exit won't get the job done. 🙂

OMG - how are we going to break this news to all of the heterosexual couples who enguage in oral and anal sex!?!!?? :Q

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
If God gave them freedom of choice then why the hell dont you?

god created them to reproduce, and buggering some guy in the rear exit won't get the job done. 🙂

Even assuming God has anything to do with it......why does he keep making more gay people? Surely the head of the GA Christian Coalition should have nothing but straight kids, yet she has a lesbian daughter.....how in the world did that happen? 😉

Perhaps it's natures way of reducing the population of this over crowed planet we live on?

 

[TitanDiddly]

Trolltastic!

Now with improved flavor!

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
If God gave them freedom of choice then why the hell dont you?

god created them to reproduce, and buggering some guy in the rear exit won't get the job done. 🙂

Even assuming God has anything to do with it......why does he keep making more gay people? Surely the head of the GA Christian Coalition should have nothing but straight kids, yet she has a lesbian daughter.....how in the world did that happen? 😉

Perhaps it's natures way of reducing the population of this over crowed planet we live on?

They're gay, not impotent.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
BTW: It's NOT just the religious zealots.

I'm am very anti organized religion, and yet I still can't see same sex marriage.

Can you think of a good reason to disallow it other than you finding it distasteful?

Other than I think it would set, what in my opinion is a bad precedent. No.

I take that back.

It would open the door to all kinda of abuse of the system.

I have usually had room mates. What's to keep me or anyone else from "Marrying" their room mate for Tax breaks, insurance breaks, and any other beifit allowed to married couples?

What's to stop a male couple and a female couple from "intermarrying" to get the benefits under the existing definition of marriage? 😉

...nothing at all. Perfect solution. Fits the rules and everything.
What stops people is that marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman. At least it is in my old-fashioned world. We all could have married for the "wrong reasons", but weren't compelled to do so because it would be wrong. It's a basic moral issue.
I also feel that homosexuality is wrong.
I also believe that sexual preference (as well as abortion, among other things) is a personal matter that belongs to an individual.
I've been taught that "Live and Let Live" is far more Godlike than "Kill the baby killers", etc., and I've always tried to abide by that.
That's probably why I'm not homophobic. It's also the reason I don't believe gays should be handed a marriage license.
Pretty base.

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
If God gave them freedom of choice then why the hell dont you?

god created them to reproduce, and buggering some guy in the rear exit won't get the job done. 🙂

Ding ding ding WINNER

God gave use parts for reproduction. Contraception prevents its original intention. Therefore it should be banned?

my wife and i don't use it, we have 2 beautiful daughters. besides, if you want to start up this road, people shouldn't be having sex before marriage should they?

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: spidey07
Fausto,

I think marijuana should be legal. I think I should be able to grow it and smoke a simple plant...kinda like other cultures do and how other cultures are protected even within the US.

I think it is my right to grow a plant and smoke it.

Society, culture and other people feel otherwise. It isn't hurting them, right? It isn't infringing on their rights, correct?

Yet the people vote and speak "we don't want people growing and smoking marijuana." Their reasons probably range all over the place, but they have their reasons.

So theres a reason why we vote on these things. The will of the people/society get to decide upon their own laws. In a sense we govern ourselves. We could up and decide the speed limit should be 100 MPh, we could even put it up to a vote and if it passed, the speed limit would be 100.

I like how you ignore my post that shows how unreasonable your arguement is.

I again point out.

Slavery as a law that was once agreed upon by the majority and ask you how their agreement that african americans should be servants makes it "kosher."

And I'll point out that at the time, it was kosher. What is "right" and what is "wrong" changes depending on society. the US for example is very different than other societies and has very different views on what is right and wrong.

Oh no... I hear a side argument coming.... could it be? Moral Relativism?

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
If God gave them freedom of choice then why the hell dont you?

god created them to reproduce, and buggering some guy in the rear exit won't get the job done. 🙂

OMG - how are we going to break this news to all of the heterosexual couples who enguage in oral and anal sex!?!!?? :Q

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't THAT still illegal in a lot of places as well?

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
If God gave them freedom of choice then why the hell dont you?

god created them to reproduce, and buggering some guy in the rear exit won't get the job done. 🙂

Ding ding ding WINNER

Wrong.

Sterile couples.

Couples who choose not to reproduce.

etc.

they should also be banned.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
If God gave them freedom of choice then why the hell dont you?

god created them to reproduce, and buggering some guy in the rear exit won't get the job done. 🙂

Ding ding ding WINNER

God gave use parts for reproduction. Contraception prevents its original intention. Therefore it should be banned?

my wife and i don't use it, we have 2 beautiful daughters. besides, if you want to start up this road, people shouldn't be having sex before marriage should they?

So condoms should be illegal ya?

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
If God gave them freedom of choice then why the hell dont you?

god created them to reproduce, and buggering some guy in the rear exit won't get the job done. 🙂

OMG - how are we going to break this news to all of the heterosexual couples who enguage in oral and anal sex!?!!?? :Q

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't THAT still illegal in a lot of places as well?

yes it is.

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: spunkz

Originally posted by: FoBoT
so many straight people live together without getting married these days, what difference does it make?

why do any non-religious people get married? is there a reason to get married if you don't think it is a sin to live together without marriage?

exactly. people always say, "what business do u have saying they can't get married", but i say "what business do they have getting married in the first place?" give them their unions or whatever and be done with it. if they want legal status as significant other or whatever, that's fine. but don't come in my church and say "you MUST marry us" just because you want a ceremony and a wedding ring and think its your right to have one.

Your church doesnt have to marry them by the way. They can get married without involving any religion at all. You can go get a liscence and be married by a non-minister.

I think most people get confused when they believe that marriage is a religious thing.

I would let the issue drop for now if they had equal rights in that legal status but the fact is that they do not and some states have went so far as to even ban civil unions.

heh, that's why we vote.

And we voted So, sorry. NOT....try again.

For the 1340981703th time; the opinion of the people doesn't somehow make the law "correct" in an absolute sense. Yes, they voted against it, but there's no concrete reason for this law to be on the books. The people are entitled to their opinions, but their opinions shouldn't necessarily be law.

See also: segregation.

so why is it allowed?

If it is on the books then it is kosher and is law. There's nothing preventing it from being such.

It is up to the state to recognize marriage, the state decided it didn't want same-sex marriage. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

As I have stated before.. so by your logic.. if a state voted and the majority decided it was okay to castrate people of religion without their consent. Then this would be kosher and law right?

Just because something is a law doesnt make it right.

There used to be Jim Crowe law as well but you probably think it was kosher.

Slavery was legal but it was probably kosher.

Teachers used to be denied the right to date (unless they attended church regularly and were male) but I guess it was kosher.

Now tell me again why the law makes it right?

At the time all those laws we're the will of the people and what they wanted.

But as you know society changes and the rules by which it governs itself change. And someday we'll have same-sex civil unions/what have you. Just not today.

Sooooo you think it was okay that those laws existed? If the will of the people today was to allow for slavery would you feel outraged?

I certainly hope another conservative could argue the point without coming to this conclusion. I hope that most religious people feel that slavery was wrong even though the country endorsed it.

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
If God gave them freedom of choice then why the hell dont you?

god created them to reproduce, and buggering some guy in the rear exit won't get the job done. 🙂

Ding ding ding WINNER

God gave use parts for reproduction. Contraception prevents its original intention. Therefore it should be banned?

my wife and i don't use it, we have 2 beautiful daughters. besides, if you want to start up this road, people shouldn't be having sex before marriage should they?

So condoms should be illegal ya?

sure, right after we start dismembering folks for having sex before marriage.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: EpsiIon

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: spunkz

Originally posted by: FoBoT
so many straight people live together without getting married these days, what difference does it make?

why do any non-religious people get married? is there a reason to get married if you don't think it is a sin to live together without marriage?

exactly. people always say, "what business do u have saying they can't get married", but i say "what business do they have getting married in the first place?" give them their unions or whatever and be done with it. if they want legal status as significant other or whatever, that's fine. but don't come in my church and say "you MUST marry us" just because you want a ceremony and a wedding ring and think its your right to have one.

Your church doesnt have to marry them by the way. They can get married without involving any religion at all. You can go get a liscence and be married by a non-minister.

I think most people get confused when they believe that marriage is a religious thing.

I would let the issue drop for now if they had equal rights in that legal status but the fact is that they do not and some states have went so far as to even ban civil unions.

heh, that's why we vote.

And we voted So, sorry. NOT....try again.

For the 1340981703th time; the opinion of the people doesn't somehow make the law "correct" in an absolute sense. Yes, they voted against it, but there's no concrete reason for this law to be on the books. The people are entitled to their opinions, but their opinions shouldn't necessarily be law.

See also: segregation.

so why is it allowed?

If it is on the books then it is kosher and is law. There's nothing preventing it from being such.

It is up to the state to recognize marriage, the state decided it didn't want same-sex marriage. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

My point is that there's no good reason given for the law.

The law does not benefit anyone.

The law does not protect anyone.

Why is it on the books at all?

That's not entirely true. If you have firm belief system that you believe is imperative to pass on to your children and the law allows something that goes against that belief system, wouldn't you view that as hurting your children?

From another approach: Would you be angry if you sent your child to school and his/her teacher taught him/her that it is OK to lie as long as it doesn't hurt anybody? I would, because I think lying would be (I don't have children) detrimental to my child's character. In addition, being taught that lying is OK by somebody he/she should presumably respect will undermine the value system I would wish to confer to him/her. That's not a perfect analogy, but perhaps it will help you see the other side of the issue?

Three things here:

1) It's not up to the gov to teach your kid morals. That should come from the parents. They are always going to be exposed to things that go against your beliefs; it's up to you as a parent to act as a sounding board to figure out right and wrong as things come up.

2) The lying analogy isn't really a good one since you really can't know if you're ultimately hurting someone by not telling the truth. I can think of a few instances where a lie might be better for someone, but that's not the kind of judgement a child is capable of making.

3) I could use your argument to say that this law goes against my belief system and "hurts" my kids. 😉

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
If God gave them freedom of choice then why the hell dont you?

god created them to reproduce, and buggering some guy in the rear exit won't get the job done. 🙂

OMG - how are we going to break this news to all of the heterosexual couples who enguage in oral and anal sex!?!!?? :Q

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't THAT still illegal in a lot of places as well?

I think there's some sodomy law somewhere.