Gay marriage and you (religious zealots)

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: Audiophile1980

Originally posted by: DAGTA
Wow, you people sure like to assume things. Nowhere in my post did I say the founding fathers EXCLUDED other religions.

You very clearly implied that their religious convictions were the foundation for the country and thus should be applied to deny homosexuals of the same rights garnered through marriage. It's not descrimination, it's AMERICA!

Nice back pedaling. Sorry, no one is buying your BS.

Yeah I felt like you were implying that their religion convictions > else.

 

[Toastedlightly]

I am discriminated against (for other reasons). It will always happen. Laws CAN change the views of the people, albeit very slowly.

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: Audiophile1980

Originally posted by: Rage187

Originally posted by: stnicralisk


You're right Rage their loss of freedoms and treatment by society is only XX% as bad as slavery. Woohoo rejoice for the freedom America offers!!!

not even 1% as bad as slavery; how on GOD's green earth can you compare not being able to marry your boyfriend to being sold and forced to work against your will?

Its sickening you actually believe its even near the same level.

We're not talking about degrees. We never have been. We're talking right and wrong.

Imposing your moral values on others and robbing them of equal protections, 1049 Federal protections in fact, because they live a lifestyle that you don't approve of is wrong.

Imposing your biggoted beliefs on others by making someone drink from a special black fountain or sit onthe back of the bus is wrong.

Get it? They're both wrong.
Not right. Wrong.

Because a free society is based on the notion that anyone can do whatever he wants as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. I.E.: blacks drink from equal fountains and gays get the same rights enabled through marriage.

Once again, as I said earlier. I'd like to be able to smoke pot legally, I'd like to be able to ride a motor cycle with out wearing a helmet. I can't. Some laws suck and they aren't fair. Deal with it. And work to change them. But don't cry discrimination just because the law disagrees with your point of view.

 

[Audiophile1980]

Originally posted by: Rage187
If you havent noticed, you live in a God fearing country. Don't like it? Move.

In case you haven't noticed, you live in a FREE country which has seperate of church and state and equality for all people guaranteed by the highest document. Don't like it? Move to Iran.

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: Rage187
If you havent noticed, you live in a God fearing country. Don't like it? Move.

NOTHING could be less patriotic. America is supposed to be a place where people can work to change things, where people have freedom, where people's opinions dont have to match yours.

We didnt move when we didnt agree with England's laws, we didn't move when we didnt agree with slavery, I wont fvcking move now.

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: Audiophile1980

Originally posted by: Rage187

Originally posted by: stnicralisk


You're right Rage their loss of freedoms and treatment by society is only XX% as bad as slavery. Woohoo rejoice for the freedom America offers!!!

not even 1% as bad as slavery; how on GOD's green earth can you compare not being able to marry your boyfriend to being sold and forced to work against your will?

Its sickening you actually believe its even near the same level.

We're not talking about degrees. We never have been. We're talking right and wrong.

Imposing your moral values on others and robbing them of equal protections, 1049 Federal protections in fact, because they live a lifestyle that you don't approve of is wrong.

Imposing your biggoted beliefs on others by making someone drink from a special black fountain or sit onthe back of the bus is wrong.

Get it? They're both wrong.
Not right. Wrong.

Because a free society is based on the notion that anyone can do whatever he wants as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. I.E.: blacks drink from equal fountains and gays get the same rights enabled through marriage.

Once again, as I said earlier. I'd like to be able to smoke pot legally, I'd like to be able to ride a motor cycle with out wearing a helmet. I can't. Some laws suck and they aren't fair. Deal with it. And work to change them. But don't cry discrimination just because the law disagrees with your point of view.

Both the laws against marijuana and not wearing helmets are intended to protect you. Is it very debatable that smoking marijuana wont even hurt you.. yes it is true.. that isnt what the post is about. The law to ban gay marriage is not even debatably intended to protect gays.

Edit: I cry discrimination because it is discrimination. I dont see how your disagreements are even related to mine - at least yours has an intent to protect people.

 

[Audiophile1980]

Once again, as I said earlier. I'd like to be able to smoke pot legally, I'd like to be able to ride a motor cycle with out wearing a helmet. I can't. Some laws suck and they aren't fair. Deal with it.

Please. Those are laws which exist to protect you from danger. They are not about EQUAL rights as NO ONE can ride a motorcycle without a helmet. They are not analogous with gay unequal rights discrimination.
Honestly, your thinking SCARES me.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Rage187
If you havent noticed, you live in a God fearing country. Don't like it? Move.


Its like living in Antartica and bitching about the cold.

I hate it when people tell me to move. Next time I find someone who's upset that abortions are not banned, maybe I'll go tell them to move out of this country.

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: Audiophile1980

Originally posted by: Rage187

Originally posted by: stnicralisk


You're right Rage their loss of freedoms and treatment by society is only XX% as bad as slavery. Woohoo rejoice for the freedom America offers!!!

not even 1% as bad as slavery; how on GOD's green earth can you compare not being able to marry your boyfriend to being sold and forced to work against your will?

Its sickening you actually believe its even near the same level.

We're not talking about degrees. We never have been. We're talking right and wrong.

Imposing your moral values on others and robbing them of equal protections, 1049 Federal protections in fact, because they live a lifestyle that you don't approve of is wrong.

Imposing your biggoted beliefs on others by making someone drink from a special black fountain or sit onthe back of the bus is wrong.

Get it? They're both wrong.
Not right. Wrong.

Because a free society is based on the notion that anyone can do whatever he wants as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. I.E.: blacks drink from equal fountains and gays get the same rights enabled through marriage.

Once again, as I said earlier. I'd like to be able to smoke pot legally, I'd like to be able to ride a motor cycle with out wearing a helmet. I can't. Some laws suck and they aren't fair. Deal with it. And work to change them. But don't cry discrimination just because the law disagrees with your point of view.

Both the laws against marijuana and not wearing helmets are intended to protect you. Is it very debatable that smoking marijuana wont even hurt you.. yes it is true.. that isnt what the post is about. The law to ban gay marriage is not even debatably intended to protect gays.

Edit: I cry discrimination because it is discrimination. I dont see how your disagreements are even related to mine - at least yours has an intent to protect people.

Rage I live in a country with freedom of speech. Dont like it move .

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: Audiophile1980

Originally posted by: DAGTA
Wow, you people sure like to assume things. Nowhere in my post did I say the founding fathers EXCLUDED other religions.

You very clearly implied that their religious convictions were the foundation for the country and thus should be applied to deny homosexuals of the same rights garnered through marriage. It's not descrimination, it's AMERICA!

Nice back pedaling. Sorry, no one is buying your BS.

I implied nothing of the sort. You can read my mind now?
My POINT, as you clearly missed, is that they set this country up how they wanted to.

I'm a VERY blunt person. I say exactly what I mean. If you think I implied something that I didn't explicitly state then you are looking for meaning that is not in my post.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
I am discriminated against (for other reasons). It will always happen. Laws CAN change the views of the people, albeit very slowly.

I'm sorry to hear that, but it's a given fact that people who treat you like that will always be around. I say the best you can do is at least try to make what they're doing, illegal.

 

[Rage187]

Nobody here is trying to supress your right to whine.

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: DAGTA
Wow, you people sure like to assume things. Nowhere in my post did I say the founding fathers EXCLUDED other religions.

no, but the way you worded your post hints at how your subconscious is controlling your logic. it's one thing to focus on the religious freedom of one group, while also granting freedom to people of other beliefs. it's quite another thing to put ALL people of all religions (and even those without) on a level playing field.

our country was based on equality. regardless of what marriage was in the past, it is now intimately connected to our government and our daily lives. it's no longer controlled by the church. as such, equality for all means equality for gays, even when it involves marriage. and you can say what you want about definitions, but they're not set in stone. things change, including definitions.


=|

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: Rage187
Nobody here is trying to supress your right to whine.

You said if I dont like it move. I think its very unpatriotic.

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: Audiophile1980

Once again, as I said earlier. I'd like to be able to smoke pot legally, I'd like to be able to ride a motor cycle with out wearing a helmet. I can't. Some laws suck and they aren't fair. Deal with it.

Please. Those are laws which exist to protect you from danger. They are not about EQUAL rights as NO ONE can ride a motorcycle without a helmet. They are not analogous with gay unequal rights discrimination.
Honestly, your thinking SCARES me.

I'm talking about LAWS here. Right or wrong, the people have spoken and it becomes a LAW.

There are laws on the books in some states that say you can't marry your cousin, yet you don't hear those people that wish to do so crying discrimination even though, it may be legal two states over to do just that!

 

[lobadobadingdong]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N
P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N
P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N
P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N
P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N
P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N P&N

 

[Rage187]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: Rage187
Nobody here is trying to supress your right to whine.

You said if I dont like it move. I think its very unpatriotic.

Welcome to the U.S.A, judging by vote results, you aren't going to be happy here anytime soon.

So its either stay here and whine and cry, or move. Which one makes more sense? Don't you want to be happy?

Even I want you to be happy.

 

[Audiophile1980]

I'm talking about LAWS here. Right or wrong, the people have spoken and it becomes a LAW.

There are laws on the books in some states that say you can't marry your cousin, yet you don't hear those people that wish to do so crying discrimination even though, it may be legal two states over to do just that!

Right or wrong the people have spoken and it's LAW?
Kind of like Slavery at the time, right?

No. A law is not absolute. It still has to pass constitutional muster. As this one doesn't, upon facing a supreme court challenge it will be ruled unconstitutional (as it was in mass) and struck down. This law is BRAND NEW and sadly this can take years.

You do understand that no law may subvert protections guaranteed by the constitution, right? How about that 14th amendment?

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: Audiophile1980

Once again, as I said earlier. I'd like to be able to smoke pot legally, I'd like to be able to ride a motor cycle with out wearing a helmet. I can't. Some laws suck and they aren't fair. Deal with it.

Please. Those are laws which exist to protect you from danger. They are not about EQUAL rights as NO ONE can ride a motorcycle without a helmet. They are not analogous with gay unequal rights discrimination.
Honestly, your thinking SCARES me.

actually i hate to disagree here, but individuals can ride a motorcycle in miami w/o a helmet (i imagine that it's a florida law). doesn't really change the argument though.


=|

 

[Audiophile1980]

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: Audiophile1980

Once again, as I said earlier. I'd like to be able to smoke pot legally, I'd like to be able to ride a motor cycle with out wearing a helmet. I can't. Some laws suck and they aren't fair. Deal with it.

Please. Those are laws which exist to protect you from danger. They are not about EQUAL rights as NO ONE can ride a motorcycle without a helmet. They are not analogous with gay unequal rights discrimination.
Honestly, your thinking SCARES me.

actually i hate to disagree here, but individuals can ride a motorcycle in miami w/o a helmet (i imagine that it's a florida law). doesn't really change the argument though.


=|

No it doesn't. Not at all. Because if he were driving in Miami, he could take his helmet off and people from Miami driving in his State would have to put on helmets.

Equality.

Of course, those are still laws designed to protect, not to curtail equality for no reason but prejudice and the imposition of one group's morals on another.

 

[DAGTA]

I don't think the 'religious zealots' are against gay people have equal rights. They are against the meaning of marriage being distorted. Most people of Christian faith accept the defintion of marriage as something blessed by God as a union between a man and a women.

Now, if gays were to lobby for a union similar to marriage, but a different name, that gives them EQUAL RIGHTS to any couple with a marriage, I think less Christian-based people would oppose it.

I'm not against gays having equal rights. I'm sure it'll surprise many of you after what you thought you read in my earlier posts (and Audio will probably call me a liar). I AM opposed to changing the definition and ritual of marriage. Make it something new, with a new name, but the same rights, and I'm fine with that.

-DAGTA

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: Rage187

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: Rage187
Nobody here is trying to supress your right to whine.

You said if I dont like it move. I think its very unpatriotic.

Welcome to the U.S.A, judging by vote results, you aren't going to be happy here anytime soon.

So its either stay here and whine and cry, or move. Which one makes more sense? Don't you want to be happy?

Even I want you to be happy.

gimme a break. the states that voted for the gay marriage ban:
Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon and Utah

let's get some real states in there, not hick-central usa. how about some cities with real economies and intellectuals. new york, chicago, boston, baltimore, d.c., philly, los angeles, seattle....


=|

 

[Audiophile1980]

You forgot SanFrancisco!

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: theNEOone
gimme a break. the states that voted for the gay marriage ban:
Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon and Utah

let's get some real states in there, not hick-central usa. how about some cities with real economies and intellectuals. new york, chicago, boston, baltimore, d.c., philly, los angeles, seattle....


=|

Wow... just wow. If you cannot even begin to see what a hypocrite you are for screaming about discrimination and then posting this post then I'm really at a loss for how anyone can show you.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Rage187

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: Rage187
Nobody here is trying to supress your right to whine.

You said if I dont like it move. I think its very unpatriotic.

Welcome to the U.S.A, judging by vote results, you aren't going to be happy here anytime soon.

So its either stay here and whine and cry, or move. Which one makes more sense? Don't you want to be happy?

Even I want you to be happy.

I'm quite happy living in the USA. I'm pretty unhappy with some of the crap that Bush tried to pull or has pulled in the past 4 years. So to make myself more comfortable, doesn't it make sense that I should fight against things that I deem unjust? I'm just in the process of making myself happier.