Gay marriage and you (religious zealots)

[Audiophile1980]

theres your challenge.

I already told you I'd do it. Your challenge has already been met. Is that the best you can do? How do you address all of the other plainly correct arguements? Can you? Rather just ignore 'em?

In fact, if there are any black people on this board, I believe that many of them would agree with me that it's the same biggotry and intollerance which leads to both forms of discrimination and savage curtailing of constitutional and basic human rights.

Denied rights to drink from the whites fountain
Denied rights to get married

Both stem from the same ignorance of what the nation is built upon and both sentiments are firmly rooted in the 'red' states that we saw on Nov 2nd.

 

[Audiophile1980]

The founding fathers of this nation were believers of God and built much of this nation on the principles of their faith and the rights to practice their faith without prosecution.

Wrong. They established a nation where ANYONE could practice whatever they wanted as long as it doesn't affect the rights of other people. They called it 'freedom'

 

[theNEOone]

let me say that i hate gays to the utmost extent. if any of my children turn out to be gay, i'd probably disown their ass. you can verfiy this as i have been given a vacation or two on this account.

HOWEVER, audiophile is 100% right. ban gay marriage? sounds pretty fvcking archaic. let's take away women's rights while we're at it. there are many that don't agree but guess what - time will prove you wrong.


=|

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: Rage187

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: Rage187

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

The discrimination of gays today is on par with the discrimination against women or slaves in the past.

I dare you to say that to an African American.

I am sure that I just did.

Most open gays experience physical violence or threats within their life, they are outcast from society, they are not allowed all the rights of others. This quite similiar. Granted theyre not put specifically in chains but I think that some people would like to see them that way. I think many would prefer they had seperate bathrooms, water fountains, and busses.

The day you can walk up to any southern african american, whos ancestors were slaves, and say to their face that your right to marry another homosexual is paramount to their freedom and they not beat the living hell out of you, then I will change my mind on gay Marriage.

I'll be in South Carolina for a few weeks in Dec, I have plenty of relatives you can try this on.

theres your challenge.

They experience more than the loss of their right to marry another homosexual. They face violence and ostracizitation. Dont you realize this?

You're right Rage their loss of freedoms and treatment by society is only XX% as bad as slavery. Woohoo rejoice for the freedom America offers!!!

Your logic is a$$ anyways the time that they dont beat the living hell out of me is the time you will change your mind? So if I fight them and put them in their place (I tend to be on the big side) then by your logic youll change your mind on gay marriage? If this is true I will gladly do this to change your mind I wouldnt truly fight someone over this but I am sure that I would eventually find some African American who is passive and would not choose violence.

I wish you would actually make an arguement.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Audiophile, stfu. It will change. Give it time. You don't live here anyway, so ah heck off,

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: Audiophile1980

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
One more thing and THEN I AM done.

Hitler discriminated against homosexuals and in the worst way possible!

This country has come a LONG LONG way in excepting "Alternate" life styles. Just because it hasn't come far enough, FAST enough to suite YOU don't start saying you are being robbed of your rights. It could be MUCH worse. You COULD be living in Nazi Germany, or you COULD be living in THIS country 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago. Count your blessing and move on!

Yes, you should be thankful that you're only being robbed of your constitutional rights 10% as much as you COULD be. Isn't that AWESOME!?

I mean, the biggots of this country are only about 10% as bad as the nazis!

BE THANKFUL!

Right....

Boy, I sure am thankful!

BTW, you were the first to bring up hitler and the Nazis. If you bring up Hitler or the nazis in an argument you automatically lose. This is the law of the internet.

Quite obviously it's NOT a constitutional right.

The supreme court disagrees with you. I venture to say they likely have a firmer understanding of the constitution.

If that were true to the extent that you want it to be true, then the states voting on same sex marriage would have been a moot point. The Constitution would have already settled it and there would have been no need for states to vote!

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: theNEOone
let me say that i hate gays to the utmost extent. if any of my children turn out to be gay, i'd probably disown their ass. you can verfiy this as i have been given a vacation or two on this account.

HOWEVER, audiophile is 100% right. ban gay marriage? sounds pretty fvcking archaic. let's take away women's rights while we're at it. there are many that don't agree but guess what - time will prove you wrong.


=|

If someone who hates gays can agree there isnt a good reason to ban their marriage then I dont see how others can support it.

 

[Audiophile1980]

Originally posted by: theNEOone
let me say that i hate gays to the utmost extent. if any of my children turn out to be gay, i'd probably disown their ass. you can verfiy this as i have been given a vacation or two on this account.

HOWEVER, audiophile is 100% right. ban gay marriage? sounds pretty fvcking archaic. let's take away women's rights while we're at it. there are many that don't agree but guess what - time will prove you wrong.


=|

Nice post.
Thanks.

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: Audiophile1980

Marriage is DEFINED as between a man and a woman. Anything else, by DEFINTION OF THE WORD, is not a marriage. So, should I ask you to explain where your constitutional rights are being robbed or will that result in you just posting the same thing you have posted several times already?

That definition is invalid according to the constitution as it affords massive rights to some couples and not others. It prohibits equal protection under the law and thus is unconstitutional.
This is what happened in Canada. The supreme court ruled that the defintion of marriage as being a union between a man and a woman was unconstitutional and was thus changed to a 'union between two people.'

Of course there's also that whole 'what your nation is based on' and 'moral majority' thing you ignored.

As I've stated elsewhere, you live in a country that was founded by people that were mostly protestants and were looking for religious freedom. The founding fathers of this nation were believers of God and built much of this nation on the principles of their faith and the rights to practice their faith without prosecution.

Many of us (obviously the majority as of two days ago) agree with these founding principles and wish to keep them.

You obviously have the right to argue your opinion and feelings, and you can thank those founding fathers that believed in God for your right to do so. That said, this is now a stalemate.

absolutely fvcking wrong. they didn't establish a nation where they could practice their faith without prosectution. they established a nation where ANYONE can practice their faith without prosectution.


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[Toastedlightly]

Forget it, 1 page late.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: DAGTA

As I've stated elsewhere, you live in a country that was founded by people that were mostly protestants and were looking for religious freedom. The founding fathers of this nation were believers of God and built much of this nation on the principles of their faith and the rights to practice their faith without prosecution.

Many of us (obviously the majority as of two days ago) agree with these founding principles and wish to keep them.

You obviously have the right to argue your opinion and feelings, and you can thank those founding fathers that believed in God for your right to do so. That said, this is now a stalemate.

I'm very happy that back then, there were people of faith who recognized that people should be allowed to not practice a faith if they so choosed. So yeah, I'm very grateful that our country's laws were drafted by very fair minded people. It is my wish that people do not disgrace them and pervert their original intentions and so that's why we fight. We fight because we don't believe that certain laws belong in the America that they envisioned.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
Also, violence against them. How does that change? You gonna put a guard on gay people? I am picked on. I AM DISCRIMINATED AGAINST. BOO FVCKING HOO.

Dude... you're totally out in left field. What the hell are you talking about?

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: Audiophile1980

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
One more thing and THEN I AM done.

Hitler discriminated against homosexuals and in the worst way possible!

This country has come a LONG LONG way in excepting "Alternate" life styles. Just because it hasn't come far enough, FAST enough to suite YOU don't start saying you are being robbed of your rights. It could be MUCH worse. You COULD be living in Nazi Germany, or you COULD be living in THIS country 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago. Count your blessing and move on!

Yes, you should be thankful that you're only being robbed of your constitutional rights 10% as much as you COULD be. Isn't that AWESOME!?

I mean, the biggots of this country are only about 10% as bad as the nazis!

BE THANKFUL!

Right....

Boy, I sure am thankful!

BTW, you were the first to bring up hitler and the Nazis. If you bring up Hitler or the nazis in an argument you automatically lose. This is the law of the internet.

Quite obviously it's NOT a constitutional right.

The supreme court disagrees with you. I venture to say they likely have a firmer understanding of the constitution.

If that were true to the extent that you want it to be true, then the states voting on same sex marriage would have been a moot point. The Constitution would have already settled it and there would have been no need for states to vote!

So by your logic the constitution shouldnt have any bearing on African Americans right? Because it slavery should have been a moot point for the states at the time if the constitution wanted them to be equal.

Lets face it the voting was inspired by Bush as an ingenius way to motivate the most evangelical crowd into voting on Nov 2. The constitution already did settle it and this is why bush has moved to create constitutional ammendments which are discriminatory.

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: DAGTA
As I've stated elsewhere, you live in a country that was founded by people that were mostly protestants and were looking for religious freedom. The founding fathers of this nation were believers of God and built much of this nation on the principles of their faith and the rights to practice their faith without prosecution.

Many of us (obviously the majority as of two days ago) agree with these founding principles and wish to keep them.

You obviously have the right to argue your opinion and feelings, and you can thank those founding fathers that believed in God for your right to do so. That said, this is now a stalemate.

absolutely fvcking wrong. they didn't establish a nation where they could practice their faith without prosectution. they established a nation where ANYONE can practice their faith without prosectution.


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How does my post disagree with your post?

 

[Rage187]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk


You're right Rage their loss of freedoms and treatment by society is only XX% as bad as slavery. Woohoo rejoice for the freedom America offers!!!

not even 1% as bad as slavery; how on GOD's green earth can you compare not being able to marry your boyfriend to being sold and forced to work against your will?

Its sickening you actually believe its even near the same level.

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: DAGTA
As I've stated elsewhere, you live in a country that was founded by people that were mostly protestants and were looking for religious freedom. The founding fathers of this nation were believers of God and built much of this nation on the principles of their faith and the rights to practice their faith without prosecution.

Many of us (obviously the majority as of two days ago) agree with these founding principles and wish to keep them.

You obviously have the right to argue your opinion and feelings, and you can thank those founding fathers that believed in God for your right to do so. That said, this is now a stalemate.

absolutely fvcking wrong. they didn't establish a nation where they could practice their faith without prosectution. they established a nation where ANYONE can practice their faith without prosectution.


=|

How does my post disagree with your post?

Because your post states that the nation is intended to support their religion and he is saying that they made a nation intended not to discriminate against ANY religion (including religions that dont hate gays.) There is quite a difference in the two.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Rage187
not even 1% as bad as slavery; how on GOD's green earth can you compare not being able to marry your boyfriend to being sold and forced to work against your will?

Its sickening you actually believe its even near the same level.

I think there's two bottom lines with his statement. The first is that we should be happy that we have our freedoms. The second is that unjust laws should not be justified by the reasoning of "it could be worse".

 

[theNEOone]

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: theNEOone

Originally posted by: DAGTA
As I've stated elsewhere, you live in a country that was founded by people that were mostly protestants and were looking for religious freedom. The founding fathers of this nation were believers of God and built much of this nation on the principles of their faith and the rights to practice their faith without prosecution.

Many of us (obviously the majority as of two days ago) agree with these founding principles and wish to keep them.

You obviously have the right to argue your opinion and feelings, and you can thank those founding fathers that believed in God for your right to do so. That said, this is now a stalemate.

absolutely fvcking wrong. they didn't establish a nation where they could practice their faith without prosectution. they established a nation where ANYONE can practice their faith without prosectution.


=|

How does my post disagree with your post?

saying that a group of people established laws so that they could protect their beliefs suggests that they would do so say at any expense - even if it infringed on others' faith. this is exactly the kind of thing our founding fathers wanted to AVOID AT ALL COSTS. i thank god many times over that they were blessed by the clearest of vision. the knew what every wise man knows - that they don't know everything.


=|

 

[Audiophile1980]

Originally posted by: Rage187

Originally posted by: stnicralisk


You're right Rage their loss of freedoms and treatment by society is only XX% as bad as slavery. Woohoo rejoice for the freedom America offers!!!

not even 1% as bad as slavery; how on GOD's green earth can you compare not being able to marry your boyfriend to being sold and forced to work against your will?

Its sickening you actually believe its even near the same level.

We're not talking about degrees. We never have been. We're talking right and wrong.

Imposing your moral values on others and robbing them of equal protections, 1049 Federal protections in fact, because they live a lifestyle that you don't approve of is wrong.

Imposing your biggoted beliefs on others by making someone drink from a special black fountain or sit onthe back of the bus is wrong.

Get it? They're both wrong.
Not right. Wrong.

Because a free society is based on the notion that anyone can do whatever he wants as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. I.E.: blacks drink from equal fountains and gays get the same rights enabled through marriage.

 

[DAGTA]

Wow, you people sure like to assume things. Nowhere in my post did I say the founding fathers EXCLUDED other religions.

 

[Rage187]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: Rage187
not even 1% as bad as slavery; how on GOD's green earth can you compare not being able to marry your boyfriend to being sold and forced to work against your will?

Its sickening you actually believe its even near the same level.

I think there's two bottom lines with his statement. The first is that we should be happy that we have our freedoms. The second is that unjust laws should not be justified by the reasoning of "it could be worse".

I'm not saying to suck it up because it could be worse, I'm saying that its not even the same fvcking game.

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: Rage187

Originally posted by: stnicralisk


You're right Rage their loss of freedoms and treatment by society is only XX% as bad as slavery. Woohoo rejoice for the freedom America offers!!!

not even 1% as bad as slavery; how on GOD's green earth can you compare not being able to marry your boyfriend to being sold and forced to work against your will?

Its sickening you actually believe its even near the same level.

You still leave out physical violence, ostracization, etc.

What would have to happen to gays in order for it to be 1% as bad as slavery. I think that it could be WORSE than slavery because at this time and age there should not be any discrimination. At least at the time they could blame ignorance. What do they have now?!

Even if it is only 0.0000000000000000001% as bad as being bought and sold dont you think thats enough to warrant a stop to the discrimination? I am confused - do you support the discrimination? If you support discrimination based on sexuality but not based on race or sex then I have a problem understanding your view of freedom Rage.

 

[Audiophile1980]

Originally posted by: DAGTA
Wow, you people sure like to assume things. Nowhere in my post did I say the founding fathers EXCLUDED other religions.

You very clearly implied that their religious convictions were the foundation for the country and thus should be applied to deny homosexuals of the same rights garnered through marriage. It's not descrimination, it's AMERICA!

Nice back pedaling. Sorry, no one is buying your BS.

 

[Audiophile1980]

Originally posted by: Rage187

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: Rage187
not even 1% as bad as slavery; how on GOD's green earth can you compare not being able to marry your boyfriend to being sold and forced to work against your will?

Its sickening you actually believe its even near the same level.

I think there's two bottom lines with his statement. The first is that we should be happy that we have our freedoms. The second is that unjust laws should not be justified by the reasoning of "it could be worse".

I'm not saying to suck it up because it could be worse, I'm saying that its not even the same fvcking game.

It is. They're both wrong.
The same degree? Maybe not.
Both wrong. Definitely.

I don't see how you can defend 'wrong.'

What defense is there for 'wrong?'

It doesn't matter HOW wrong. There's just right and wrong, free and not free, just an unjust.

 

[Rage187]

If you havent noticed, you live in a God fearing country. Don't like it? Move.


Its like living in Antartica and bitching about the cold.