Gas could get back as low as $1.15/gal

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newmachineoverlord

Senior member
Jan 22, 2006
484
0
0
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: Queasy
Texas is going to start building new clean coal-fired power plants soon (my dad will be going there to work on one of them). Did you know that the enviros don't want Texas to build these? This despite the fact that if Texas doesn't build new power plants, they'll be experiencing brown-outs and increased energy prices across the state in the next couple of years? How is this reasonable?

Coal power is not clean...period. They should build nukes, natural gas, solar, or wind instead. Coal power is just a bad idea.

The latest coal power plants use a mixture of scrubbers and other technology to produce relatively clean energy. Granted, it is not as clean as nuclear power plants but the enviros won't let us build those. Nuclear power is eeeevil man.

Can't build wind farms because birds might fly into the blades. Enviros don't like birds flying into wind farm blades....that is when they aren't blocking the view at the Kennedy Compound (Not to mention that the wind farms probably won't produce enough energy to meet Texas' needs).

Can't build natural gas since the supply of natural gas is tight because enviros won't let us drill for natural gas even 50 miles off the coast of Florida. Natural gas keeps getting more expensive every year as more plants are built and the supply gets tighter.

So yeah, when Texas is faced with a looming energy shortage, where else are they going to turn for power?

There are more than enough wind resources in Texas to provide for the entire electricity consumption of the state. Even if you only consider the areas with high enough wind to be very profitable (class IV and greater) there would be enough wind to provide for 123% of the state's total electricity consumption. http://www.infinitepower.org/reswind.htm

Currently wind power is the single most cost effective source of electricity for a new power plant. Coal and nuclear power are completely obsolete, and with extensive implementation of demand side management, natural gas peaking plants could also become obsolete. In the long run it will become cheaper to build long distance transmission lines to wind-poor areas than to build coal or nuclear power plants. Even if total wind power capacity continues to double every three years, it will be eighteen years before the intermittency of wind becomes a significant enough factor that any additional costs will have to be incurred because of it, to pre-empt likely complaints about that.

Most environmentalists are in favor of wind energy. The most powerful anti-wind lobbies are paid for by rich brats that don't want their coastal view spoiled. Even the british royal society for preservation of birds recognizes that properly placed wind farms pose more of a benefit to birds more from reduced pollution than a threat. Wind farms have an energy payback period of less than six months.
/threadjack

OK, back to cheap gas: I'll believe it when I see it, and expecting gas to rise again after the november elections isn't paranoid, it's appropriately cynical. Low gas prices may very well be the new "october surprise." I haven't seen anyone provide a factual contradiction to Dave's assertion that oil inventories have never dropped, just lots of people calling him paranoid. Maybe you never took logic, but that's called an ad hominem argument and it doesn't fly with me. Just because Dave is paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get him. Of course the evidence is hardly conclusive, but we've been given plenty of reason to be suspicious. Neoconservatives loved the movie "wag the dog" back in the nineties, but avoid all mention of it in the 21st century.

Also regarding the article, this line makes no sense "With oil inventories high, refiners that turn oil into gasoline are expected to cut production." Why would they cut gasoline production just because their oil supply was high? It would be more logical for them to maximize their output in response to decreased supply costs. Of course stockpiling oil inventories while prices are low is a great idea, but cutting usage due to a supply surge defies all logic. "Idaho turned out a record crop of potatoes, so McDonalds is expected to cut french fry production."

 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: Lorax
man, all those people with hybrids are going to look like idiots.

not really. how long do you expect the cheap gas to last? i am willing to bet by next summer it will be up around $3 again.

iirc, they don't recoup the investment for years even at $3 a gallon, and with a year or more of <$2, the car will probably be worn out before recoupment happens
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: Lorax
man, all those people with hybrids are going to look like idiots.

not really. how long do you expect the cheap gas to last? i am willing to bet by next summer it will be up around $3 again.

iirc, they don't recoup the investment for years even at $3 a gallon, and with a year or more of <$2, the car will probably be worn out before recoupment happens

i agree. hybrids right now are not worth it for gas savings. but gas dropping to a buck again is not the reason they are going to look like idiots.

also i do not see teh cheap gas staying low for long
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126
Originally posted by: Vic
There is a good likelihood that the commodities bubble is about to pop, and that includes oil and gas. It's wait and see right now, but the wind is blowing in that direction. $1.15/gal. seems awfully low to me, but I do expect gas to drop below $2/gal this winter, and for prices to be lower next year than they were this year.

if everyone thinks the bubble is about to burst, they'll all try to get out, causing the bubble to burst.

remarkable how that works.

Originally posted by: jagec
Coal power is not clean...period. They should build nukes, natural gas, solar, or wind instead. Coal power is just a bad idea.
we've already got too damn many natural gas plants. it's the reason texas has such ridiculously high electric rates ($0.16/kwh last bill).

i agree with the wind power thing. texas is already the world leader in wind energy production. with more fields going up off the coast every year, we're likely to stay that way. still, wind power seems to only be economically feasible at rates like we've currently got. of course, 'economically feasible' fails to take into account all of the negative externalities that aren't built into the price by the market (shhh, no talk of market failures around here, else certain members are likely to hit you over the head with a trout and claim that no such things exist)
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
Experts are stupid.

Experts thought that oil would be $100 a barrel by now.
Experts thought that there would be 50 hurricanes pummeling Florida this year.
Experts thought that dot-com stocks would take the NasDaq higher than the Dow.
Experts thought that housing prices would never go down.


and on and on and on.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
4
76
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: supafly
Originally posted by: ScottSwingleComputers
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Notice that Dave has not chimed in?

Can not stand the potential of good news?

Excuse me, Good News?

Where? Thought that's only a Bible class thing.

It's absolutely the worst thing for this Country if Gas goes back to $1.15.

I would step in and immediately place an 85 cent tax to change the infrastructure of filling stations to Hydrogen.

Put me in coach and make it so.

I agree. While it would be nice when filling up, it would only worsen our dependancy and will just make things worse in the long run.

Good point.. when I first read the thread I didn't think about that.

Oil companies: hey, were gonna lower gas prices to $1.15! (so you can stop coming up with alternative solutions)
Consumers: yay!

Years later:
Oil companies: sorry about that, we're, uhh, we're "running low" on oil.. since you all used so much when the price was lowered... so gas is going up to $6 a gallon
Consumers: NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Did you know Oil inventories never ran low?

Even after Hurricane Katrina. It's all been 110% bullcrap.

I hate having to repeat myself, but here it goes....

The energy bill required us to switch over to 10% ethanol. We did not have enough ethanol to meet the demand. Unfortunately, this caused a supply shortage (ethanol) that was required to be mixed with something that was in plentiful supply (oil/gas)
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
34
91
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Experts are stupid.

Experts thought that oil would be $100 a barrel by now.
Experts thought that there would be 50 hurricanes pummeling Florida this year.
Experts thought that dot-com stocks would take the NasDaq higher than the Dow.
Experts thought that housing prices would never go down.


and on and on and on.

This post makes you an expert on experts!


 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,354
19,534
146
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: FoBoT
Originally posted by: Amused
Gas was as low as .89 a gallon in 1999 for quite a few months at a time when oil was $11 a barrel.

i paid $0.659 per gallon in Atlanta at that time


Who was President back then ?

What does our president have to do with OPEC flooding the market to drive down oil prices so low it drives small producers out of business?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: newmachineoverlord

OK, back to cheap gas: I'll believe it when I see it, and expecting gas to rise again after the november elections isn't paranoid, it's appropriately cynical. Low gas prices may very well be the new "october surprise."

I haven't seen anyone provide a factual contradiction to Dave's assertion that oil inventories have never dropped, just lots of people calling him paranoid.

Maybe you never took logic, but that's called an ad hominem argument and it doesn't fly with me.


Just because Dave is paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get him. Of course the evidence is hardly conclusive, but we've been given plenty of reason to be suspicious. Neoconservatives loved the movie "wag the dog" back in the nineties, but avoid all mention of it in the 21st century.

Also regarding the article, this line makes no sense "With oil inventories high, refiners that turn oil into gasoline are expected to cut production."

Why would they cut gasoline production just because their oil supply was high?

It would be more logical for them to maximize their output in response to decreased supply costs.

Of course stockpiling oil inventories while prices are low is a great idea, but cutting usage due to a supply surge defies all logic.

"Idaho turned out a record crop of potatoes, so McDonalds is expected to cut french fry production."

I love you man
 

dds14u

Golden Member
Feb 24, 2004
1,310
0
0
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: Lorax
man, all those people with hybrids are going to look like idiots.

not really. how long do you expect the cheap gas to last? i am willing to bet by next summer it will be up around $3 again.

You're assuming it's ever going to go down
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: FoBoT
Originally posted by: Amused
Gas was as low as .89 a gallon in 1999 for quite a few months at a time when oil was $11 a barrel.
i paid $0.659 per gallon in Atlanta at that time

Who was President back then ?
What does our president have to do with OPEC flooding the market to drive down oil prices so low it drives small producers out of business?

I thought you didn't believe in conspiracies or corruption???
 

altonb1

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2002
6,432
0
71
Fvck OPEC! They were "concerned" when the ppb was hitting the mid 30's and rising. They "claimed" they wanted oil to stabilize around $30-32/barrel. Instead, they are now worried because it is in the mid 60s and falling...
 

Wheezer

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
6,731
1
81
Originally posted by: Amused
OPEC will never let it get that low. When gas was just under $1 a gallon in 1999, it was caused by OPEC flooding the market to drive out small producers. Oil dropped to $11 a barrel to reach that low of a price.

I highly doubt it will ever get that low again. Not unless you adjust for inflation. But even then, I doubt it will ever drop below $30 a barrel, or $1.50 a gallon.


exactly.
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
1
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Can not stand the potential of good news?

Excuse me, Good News?

Where? Thought that's only a Bible class thing.

It's absolutely the worst thing for this Country if Gas goes back to $1.15.

I would step in and immediately place an 85 cent tax to change the infrastructure of filling stations to Hydrogen.

Put me in coach and make it so.[/quote]


No offense because I dont say this with malice but you have to be the biggest nut job I have ever come across in person or on the net.

Post your manifesto for us.

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Can not stand the potential of good news?

Excuse me, Good News?

Where? Thought that's only a Bible class thing.

It's absolutely the worst thing for this Country if Gas goes back to $1.15.

I would step in and immediately place an 85 cent tax to change the infrastructure of filling stations to Hydrogen.

Put me in coach and make it so.

No offense because I dont say this with malice but you have to be the biggest nut job I have ever come across in person or on the net.

Post your manifesto for us.[/quote]

Nice :roll:

Please explain this without being an apologist for the Oil Barons:

Originally posted by: altonb1
Fvck OPEC! They were "concerned" when the ppb was hitting the mid 30's and rising. They "claimed" they wanted oil to stabilize around $30-32/barrel. Instead, they are now worried because it is in the mid 60s and falling...


 

Toastedlightly

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2004
7,214
6
81
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Can not stand the potential of good news?

Excuse me, Good News?

Where? Thought that's only a Bible class thing.

It's absolutely the worst thing for this Country if Gas goes back to $1.15.

I would step in and immediately place an 85 cent tax to change the infrastructure of filling stations to Hydrogen.

Put me in coach and make it so.


No offense because I dont say this with malice but you have to be the biggest nut job I have ever come across in person or on the net.

Post your manifesto for us.

[/quote]

So, sir who thinks it is a good idea to change the infrastructure to hydrogen.. how exactly do you go about producing this said hydrogen?

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Can not stand the potential of good news?

Excuse me, Good News?

Where? Thought that's only a Bible class thing.

It's absolutely the worst thing for this Country if Gas goes back to $1.15.

I would step in and immediately place an 85 cent tax to change the infrastructure of filling stations to Hydrogen.

Put me in coach and make it so.


No offense because I dont say this with malice but you have to be the biggest nut job I have ever come across in person or on the net.

Post your manifesto for us.

So, sir who thinks it is a good idea to change the infrastructure to hydrogen.. how exactly do you go about producing this said hydrogen? [/quote]

You honestly believe in 2006 we cannot produce Hydrogen??? :confused:
 

Toastedlightly

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2004
7,214
6
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Can not stand the potential of good news?

Excuse me, Good News?

Where? Thought that's only a Bible class thing.

It's absolutely the worst thing for this Country if Gas goes back to $1.15.

I would step in and immediately place an 85 cent tax to change the infrastructure of filling stations to Hydrogen.

Put me in coach and make it so.


No offense because I dont say this with malice but you have to be the biggest nut job I have ever come across in person or on the net.

Post your manifesto for us.

So, sir who thinks it is a good idea to change the infrastructure to hydrogen.. how exactly do you go about producing this said hydrogen?

You honestly believe in 2006 we cannot produce Hydrogen??? :confused:[/quote]

Where's the power to produce that hydrogen coming from?

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Can not stand the potential of good news?

Excuse me, Good News?

Where? Thought that's only a Bible class thing.

It's absolutely the worst thing for this Country if Gas goes back to $1.15.

I would step in and immediately place an 85 cent tax to change the infrastructure of filling stations to Hydrogen.

Put me in coach and make it so.

No offense because I dont say this with malice but you have to be the biggest nut job I have ever come across in person or on the net.

Post your manifesto for us.
So, sir who thinks it is a good idea to change the infrastructure to hydrogen.. how exactly do you go about producing this said hydrogen?

You honestly believe in 2006 we cannot produce Hydrogen??? :confused:

Where's the power to produce that hydrogen coming from?[/quote]

How many Nuke plants do we have?
 

Toastedlightly

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2004
7,214
6
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Can not stand the potential of good news?

Excuse me, Good News?

Where? Thought that's only a Bible class thing.

It's absolutely the worst thing for this Country if Gas goes back to $1.15.

I would step in and immediately place an 85 cent tax to change the infrastructure of filling stations to Hydrogen.

Put me in coach and make it so.

No offense because I dont say this with malice but you have to be the biggest nut job I have ever come across in person or on the net.

Post your manifesto for us.
So, sir who thinks it is a good idea to change the infrastructure to hydrogen.. how exactly do you go about producing this said hydrogen?

You honestly believe in 2006 we cannot produce Hydrogen??? :confused:

Where's the power to produce that hydrogen coming from?

How many Nuke plants do we have?[/quote]

Definately not enough. I'm in favor of more, you?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Can not stand the potential of good news?

Excuse me, Good News?

Where? Thought that's only a Bible class thing.

It's absolutely the worst thing for this Country if Gas goes back to $1.15.

I would step in and immediately place an 85 cent tax to change the infrastructure of filling stations to Hydrogen.

Put me in coach and make it so.

No offense because I dont say this with malice but you have to be the biggest nut job I have ever come across in person or on the net.

Post your manifesto for us.
So, sir who thinks it is a good idea to change the infrastructure to hydrogen.. how exactly do you go about producing this said hydrogen?

You honestly believe in 2006 we cannot produce Hydrogen??? :confused:

Where's the power to produce that hydrogen coming from?

How many Nuke plants do we have?

Definately not enough. I'm in favor of more, you?[/quote]

Of course, why?
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
167
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
If it does, I'm stocking up on several thousand gallons - purchasing them at the Indian Reservation to save an extra 20 cents or so, and buying a lot of that Sta-bil stuff. :) I believe a 2000 gallon above ground tank would cost less than 1000... I could claim I'm using it for the farm equipment :)

 

AbAbber2k

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
6,474
1
0
Originally posted by: rgwalt
Most of Japan's population lives in its cities, many of which have advanced public transportation systems. Our population is MUCH more distributed than Japan. We have much more farm land, and we have to move goods around the country.

This being said, I think we need to work on developing better transportation systems.

"From now on we will travel in tubes! Get the scientists working on the tube technology. Chop chop!"