Gangs of New York

[Geekbabe]

Just got back from seeing this and haven't quite decided what I think of it yet.Being of irish heritage from NYC it was interesting to me,I do wonder how histrocially accurate the movie is.

The other thought that struck me was about how America is called "The Melting Pot" seems to me that the melting of so many different groups happened more by use of the sword than by use of a spoon and that mix was a lot more volitile in the past than it is now.What do you all think?I'm interested in hearing particularly from newcomers to America.

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

I thought that the costumes were nice and they did a really good job of getting me "in the era" but the story sucked some serious ass. Nevertheless, Daniel Day Lewis' acting was superb, the others were... meh

 

[BentValve]

I loved it! Scorsese is brilliant!

 

[WinkOsmosis]

I have yet to see it. From the previews, it looks goofy as hell.

 

[joohang]

Originally posted by: Jellomancer
I have yet to see it. From the previews, it looks goofy as hell.

Same impression I got.

 

[joohang]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Just got back from seeing this and haven't quite decided what I think of it yet.Being of irish heritage from NYC it was interesting to me,I do wonder how histrocially accurate the movie is.

The other thought that struck me was about how America is called "The Melting Pot" seems to me that the melting of so many different groups happened more by use of the sword than by use of a spoon and that mix was a lot more volitile in the past than it is now.What do you all think?I'm interested in hearing particularly from newcomers to America.

It is difficult to say whether a movie is "historically accurate" since it is an interpretation of the filmmaker. As it is a case with most works of history, some do a better job at displaying the more solid historical interpretation, but I would refrain from saying whether one is more "accurate" than others, unless they added a bunch of BS or fiction to make things more dramatic, which happens often as well.

About the "melting pot" question, it's funny because I hear from some Canadians that Canada is better than the US because we appreciate diverse cultures the way they are rather than "mixing" them all up. I think that this a pure BS.

IMO, all peoples and cultures everywhere in history mingled and migrated. No single civilization developed in isolation. Languages, the arts, technologies, etc etc have constantly developed and migrated in a complex web, although we tend to only identify the "hotspots" of migrations, such as the Americas. Sometimes cultures mix up rather peacefully. Sometimes they result in violence, especially if the "imported" culture is alien to the existing prevalent culture. Many violent conflicts in history resulted from introduction of "unfamiliar" and "incompatible" customs, but many influenced or mixed in with the existing culture rather peacefully (or a bit of both).

 

[0roo0roo]

supposedly there was a 2001 cut that is better

 

[JSang]

some history of gangs @ dvdtalk

check it out...interesting read

 

[fluxquantum]

since it's got "dicrappio" in it, i'll be skipping this one.

 

[Kadarin]

The "melting pot" is a good concept. It's easier to "ethnically cleanse" people who don't speak the same language, don't eat the same foods, don't wear the same clothing.. The last thing we'd want is for America to turn into Yugoslavia on a scale far more vast.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
The "melting pot" is a good concept. It's easier to "ethnically cleanse" people who don't speak the same language, don't eat the same foods, don't wear the same clothing.. The last thing we'd want is for America to turn into Yugoslavia on a scale far more vast.

My point is that in school,the concept of America as the world's Melting Pot was presented in a rather bland,wonder white bread fashion,images of poor,oppressed people coming here for a better life.Very little was said about how each new group was hated by those already here or the bloodshed that often followed.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
The "melting pot" is a good concept. It's easier to "ethnically cleanse" people who don't speak the same language, don't eat the same foods, don't wear the same clothing.. The last thing we'd want is for America to turn into Yugoslavia on a scale far more vast.

My point is that in school,the concept of America as the world's Melting Pot was presented in a rather bland,wonder white bread fashion,images of poor,oppressed people coming here for a better life.Very little was said about how each new group was hated by those already here or the bloodshed that often followed.

Right... melting pot indeed.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
The "melting pot" is a good concept. It's easier to "ethnically cleanse" people who don't speak the same language, don't eat the same foods, don't wear the same clothing.. The last thing we'd want is for America to turn into Yugoslavia on a scale far more vast.

My point is that in school,the concept of America as the world's Melting Pot was presented in a rather bland,wonder white bread fashion,images of poor,oppressed people coming here for a better life.Very little was said about how each new group was hated by those already here or the bloodshed that often followed.

That's a very good point.. While it's a good concept in theory, the implementation (not that it was policy determined by committee or anything) wasn't painless. Unfortunately, much of history is taught in the "wonderbread" fashion..

 

[Supahfreak]

I just saw it and really liked it. It's cool to think maybe one of my ancestors could have been in that group (Okinawan, German, Irish, Hawaiian). It would have been even more funny to see my Hawaiian ancestors there, a Moke in the Big Apple.

FreAk

For all wondering...

Moke= (D) Pidgin slang for extremely large local and very tough guy.

 

[SuperSix]

I saw it last night, and loved it. Much of history is brutal, and unforgiving, but it's history nonetheless...

I didn't like the camera angles/editing in the fight scenes.. But overall the atmosphere was enveloping and believable.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Listened to a historian/author on NPR the other day who related the violence was seriously overdone, but it's fairly accurate.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: SuperSix
I saw it last night, and loved it. Much of history is brutal, and unforgiving, but it's history nonetheless...

I didn't like the camera angles/editing in the fight scenes.. But overall the atmosphere was enveloping and believable.

It would be interesting to hear the POV of new arrivals to our golden shores,how are they treated by those of us already here I wonder?

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Listened to a historian/author on NPR the other day who related the violence was seriously overdone, but it's fairly accurate.

I listened to the same piece. He also mentioned several other things that were not true in the movie. One I remember was that the movie has Chinese people in it. In reality there were very few Chinese men and no Chinese women in NYC at the time.

 

[xospec1alk]

Originally posted by: fluxquantum
since it's got "dicrappio" in it, i'll be skipping this one.

does that really guage how good a movie is/isn't if its got one supposedly crappy actor in it? i just done understand it when people say, "oh this movie's got this actor starring in it, it must suck"

unless of course said actor is carrot top..

 

[Michael]

I have always liked NYC and NYC history. The story about the gang warfare is true. The militia/Army/National Guard (whatever it was called back in Civil War time) did have to get sent in.

The Union Army had many units made up of Irish and Germans who were recent arrivals to the US and were looking for a job. You could even buy your way out of the draft by paying someone to take your place.

Just about every generation of immigrants into NYC goes through the same cycle. They're different and a threat to the last wave as they start taking all the low paying jobs. There always has been pushback and violence. In the end, their children end up being "American" and the cycle starts all over again. I'm wondering about this today with all the polical correctness around, but my NYC area friends say it is still happening.

Michael

ps - as a Canadian (now living in the US), I didn't see much difference in the end effect. Canada hasn't had the same effect of the waves of immigrants all washing up in one or two main cities (NYC and Boston got the lion's share of European immigrants for a long time). Toronto is probably the only city in my memory to get a bunch of "different" people all arriving in one big bunch, and I know that Toronto and Montreal both have had flare-ups of problems associated with this. Canada still is pretty homogeneous. I haven't looked at the stats in about a decade, but Canada was vastly more Caucasion and European than the US last time I checked, so there hasn't been as much need for a more forced "melting".

 

[Murpheeee]

Not a DiCaprio fan or a Diaz fan, but Daniel Day-Lewis acted everyone else off the screen anyway.

Good Movie

 

[ajskydiver]

I found this movie to be vaguely familiar (forgetting the NYC and "Historical" backdrop)...

1. Amsterdam (as child) witnesses father/family member murdered.
2. Amsterdam grows up in a tough environment.
3. Amsterdam returns as adult for revenge, gets wounded badly.
4. Amsterdam makes comeback, kills slayer of family

Let's see...

1. Young Conan witnesses death of mother/father.
2. Young Conan grows up in tough environment.
3. Conan, as adult, seeks revenge - gets killed.
4. Conan returns, kills slayer of family.

Hmmm...not so original after all.

~AJ

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: joohang

Originally posted by: Jellomancer
I have yet to see it. From the previews, it looks goofy as hell.

Same impression I got.

i haven't even seen any previews...

 

[wonTong]

Originally posted by: fluxquantum
since it's got "dicrappio" in it, i'll be skipping this one.

but Cameron Diaz reeeeaally makes up for it

 

[SuperSix]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: SuperSix
I saw it last night, and loved it. Much of history is brutal, and unforgiving, but it's history nonetheless...

I didn't like the camera angles/editing in the fight scenes.. But overall the atmosphere was enveloping and believable.

It would be interesting to hear the POV of new arrivals to our golden shores,how are they treated by those of us already here I wonder?

Now or then?