Since Gandalf is the more powerful, Círdan gave him Narya.
So, why can't he kick Saruman's ass?
So, why can't he kick Saruman's ass?
Gandalf vs. Saruman
- Thread starter glen
- Start date
In the book there was no "wand battle" between them. It would have been foolish for Gandalf to even try, because he was in Saruman's stronghold, and if he did defeat him his minions would have finished him off. Plus Saruman made his own ring. So maybe he could, maybe he couldn't, they just never had it out until after Gandalf got promoted.
You could of course try a vague explanation of the kind that Saruman was already working together with Sauron at that time. Sauron could wipe the floor with Gandalf even without his ring, so even with only a little support from Sauron Saruman was already a lot tougher. That, and Saruman being the strongest of the order, and therefor being Gandalf's 'boss'
Well Gandalf has Narya.
Saruman has a ring he made and is now, Saruman of many colors, right?
But, the point is that while Saruman is publically acknowledged the more powerful, and Gandalf accepts him as head of the order, Gandalf is really the more powerful, as shown by the fact that he has Narya, the Elven Ring.
Right...?
Saruman has a ring he made and is now, Saruman of many colors, right?
But, the point is that while Saruman is publically acknowledged the more powerful, and Gandalf accepts him as head of the order, Gandalf is really the more powerful, as shown by the fact that he has Narya, the Elven Ring.
Right...?
Saruman is the white wizard from Orthanc! Sauron is the all powerful one who created the ring(and lost it)!
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Saruman the White > Gandalf the Grey (as shown in FotR - Saruman takes Gandalf's staff - I think the staffs are the symbols of power)
Gandalf the White > Saruman the Multicolored (as read in TTT, to be shown in RotK *SPOILER* when Gandalf breaks Saruman's staff)
I thought that the staff breaking was in TTT, but just not in PJ's movie.
Never the less, I agree with you.
It is as though they change levels of power Gandalf before the Balrog, and Saruman before he makes his own ring.
Still, I wonder if there is more to the explaination.
My spelling errors make it seem like I am confusing the two, Sauron and Saruman, but I am not.
Sarumon is obsesed with these rings and after studying them, he makes one of his own.
Gandalf spent a long time in the gardens of Valinor listening Lorien and Nienna, and was considered by the Valar to be the wisest of the Maiar. But "more powerful" is saying a lot, and hard to measure except in battle, and even then you can get a lucky break or something. I read somewhere that in the beginning when the ainur sang and made the world, that Gandalf and Saruman for a while sang the same part of the Music, and that they were more alike than any other two Maiar. After they came to Middle Earth their choices sort of led them apart. Gandalf spent his time learning wisdom and pity, and Saruman learned how to exert his power over others and manipulate them with his voice. Cirdan might have given his ring to either of them, but he knew that Gandalf was the wiser of the two. Later after he fought the balrog, Gandalf died. He said himself that his old life burned away. The Valar gave him an extra measure of power so that he could go back and complete his task, because he had been true to his mission.
In the book there just was no battle between Gandalf and Saruman. When Saruman captured Gandalf, he was in a tight spot, and trying to fight him would have been stupid. They added the battle to the movie to be dramatic. I don't know how they are going to do the confrontation between Gandalf the White and Saruman in the movie, but at that point in the book, Gandalf *was* more powerful than Saruman. Gandalf got "upgraded", and Saruman had spent much of his power building his kingdom. At that point Gandalf didn't even need to fight Saruman, he just commanded him, and he had to obey.
In the book there just was no battle between Gandalf and Saruman. When Saruman captured Gandalf, he was in a tight spot, and trying to fight him would have been stupid. They added the battle to the movie to be dramatic. I don't know how they are going to do the confrontation between Gandalf the White and Saruman in the movie, but at that point in the book, Gandalf *was* more powerful than Saruman. Gandalf got "upgraded", and Saruman had spent much of his power building his kingdom. At that point Gandalf didn't even need to fight Saruman, he just commanded him, and he had to obey.
I don't know.
I also had no idea what was going on when I saw LOTR:TTT yesterday...I guess I should have seen the first one before seeing the second.
I also had no idea what was going on when I saw LOTR:TTT yesterday...I guess I should have seen the first one before seeing the second.
If Gandalf is that powerful and powerful enough to whoop the Balrog, why didn't he just stay at Helms Deep and cast some sort of spell to totally obliterate the oncoming forces?
Gandalf is not on middle earth to fight the battles of the people of middle earth. He is allowed to help and offer advice but he is not there to decide who should win or lose a battle.
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