Gaming Build Help (Am I Overpaying?)

[SylEm]

I saw this build on anandtech and it looks like a beast:

Processor Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge $313
Motherboard ASUS P8Z68-V PRO LGA 1155 $205
Memory Patriot Gamer 2 Series 8GB (2x4GB) PGD38G1600ELK $85 -$15
Graphics EVGA 015-P3-1580-AR GeForce GTX 580 1536MB GDDR5 $470 -$30
Primary Storage Intel 510 Series 120GB SSD $280
Secondary Storage Samsung SpinPoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB HDD $60
Optical LITE-ON iHAS124-04 DVD Burner $25
Power Supply Corsair 1000w (I ALREADY OWN THIS)
Case Corsair Obsidian Series 650D $200 -$20
CPU Heatsink Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 CPU cooler $27

When I priced it all out on Newegg I got it all for around $1670 after shipping/taxes. My question is, before I purchase this build, I'm wondering if there's certain areas where I could save a decent amount by getting different parts without comprimising performance or capability a whole lot. For example, I was suprised that the cost of the case was almost $200, I've seen other highly rated cases for much less but I don't know what I'd be sacfrificing. My biggest use for this machine is gaming. I also plan to go SLi by end of this year so I want it to be fully capable and have enough room/cooling to do so. Any suggestions on what I could do to "trim the fat" of the price? Thanks in advance!

 

[SylEm]

I should probably add that I do HEAVY gaming, I want to ensure I can max setting on latest games like modern warfare 3, battlefield 3, witcher 2, etc....

 

[Gigantopithecus]

A few things to consider:

First I assume you mean you already have a 1,000W Corsair PSU, not a 100W PSU.

Second, scroll down to the bottom of this Bench comparison between the 2600K and the 2500K. Look at the gaming benchmarks. Not many games will exploit the i7's Hyper-Threading.

Third, you're spending a lot of money on a big SSD. Not many games really see that much of a difference in load times, etc. from being put on an SSD.

Fourth, anything about that ASUS board you can't get on a Z68 model that's $50-100 less expensive?

 

[SylEm]

Thanks for your reply. Yes it's a 1000W PSU, I've corrected my post sorry about that lol. Thats a great point about the 2500k processor, maybe I'm going overkill with the 2600k. So lets assume I choose the 2500k processor, that saves me about $95 which is nice.

Next, on that SSD, I'm completely open to suggestions because the price seems high for the drive. Any recommendations that would give comparable performance and storage?

Lastly, when it comes to the mobo, I honestly have no idea what the advantages are in comparison to any other Z68 model. Again, it was just the board that was suggested on anandtech guides. I do, however, want to ensure I can go SLi on it and have plenty of room for the other devices in the build (SSD, HEATSINK, ETC). Any suggestions on the mobo?

 

[dma0991]

That Asus P8Z68-V PRO seems like a very expensive board for what it has in terms of features. I would rather go for a Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD4-B3 or ASRock Z68 EXTREME4 GEN3 with the former being a cheaper motherboard but has all the necessary features and the latter having a ton of features with a much lower price tag than the Asus board.

The money you save from getting the Core i5 2500K can be better used for a better heatsink like the Noctua NH-D14 or go all out with the new Corsair H100. Almost all of the ATX sized Z68 boards have sufficient spacing and won't be having clearance issues unless you're using extra tall performance RAM.

 

[SylEm]

Do the boards you suggested offer SLi capability?

 

[dma0991]

Do the boards you suggested offer SLi capability?

Yes. A more balanced x8x8 splitting rather than cheaper motherboards which offers x16x4. Also to note that the ASRock boards has PCIE 3.0 on the first slot only IIANM which might be useful in the future if newer GPUs are bandwidth constrained.

 

[SylEm]

once your preference between the two?

 

[dma0991]

Both offer almost similar value for the money so I can't say which is better. Either boards will definitely allow you to OC till 4.5GHz and beyond without even trying. I'll let you decide on which is better. ^_^

 

[SylEm]

Ok, so what about the other components that are in question? Like the SSD. Any suggestions on something comparable and less expensive?

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Thanks for your reply. Yes it's a 1000W PSU, I've corrected my post sorry about that lol. Thats a great point about the 2500k processor, maybe I'm going overkill with the 2600k. So lets assume I choose the 2500k processor, that saves me about $95 which is nice.

Good. I generally don't recommend the 2600K to gamers.

Next, on that SSD, I'm completely open to suggestions because the price seems high for the drive. Any recommendations that would give comparable performance and storage?

Depends on how much capacity you want on the OS/app drive, even discounting games. Any bigger programs you'll want loaded on it aside from Windows 7? E.g. Anything by Adobe, Office, etc.?

Lastly, when it comes to the mobo, I honestly have no idea what the advantages are in comparison to any other Z68 model. Again, it was just the board that was suggested on anandtech guides. I do, however, want to ensure I can go SLi on it and have plenty of room for the other devices in the build (SSD, HEATSINK, ETC). Any suggestions on the mobo?

When I wrote the SB buyer's guide I went for all the bells and whistles on the $2,000 system's board. The Biostar I recommended for the $1,000 build is very good, and its only real drawback in my mind is the x16/x4 split SLI vs. the x8/x8 on the ASUS, as dma0991 pointed out. However, x4 PCIe rarely bottlenecks gaming performance. See here and here. Up to you whether those differences are worth a Benjamin premium.

 

[SylEm]

To be honest, I don't really know what the "x16/x4 split SLI vs. the x8/x8 on the ASUS" even means. By going with biostar mobo, what will I notice differently when it comes to gaming performance, taking into account that I go SLi in a couple months?

 

[darckhart]

firstly, i do not understand your fascination with sli unless 1) you cannot afford the super one card and need 2 lesser ones to match or exceed a little the performance for cheaper price, or 2) you are intending on sli as an upgrade path (but fyi new cards from both vendors come out very soon).

that being said, x16/x4 vs x8/x8 is the split of the bandwidth between the slots. since video card needs to talk to cpu (and there's a crap ton of data) it needs a nice big highway to do it. the biggest highway so far is x16. (so, ideally if you wanted sli, you would want 2 slots of x16 each, ie, x16/x16, or 32 total lanes.) unfortunately for you, the chipset associated with using the 2500K cpu does not support 32 lanes. (however some mobos use a 3rd party chipset (nf200) to multiplex them and give you more lanes (but it's all funny math as far as i'm concerned).) in any case, that means you are left splitting up a set number of lanes among two slots. how the split occurs depends on how the mobo manufacturer chooses. some people advocate the x8/x8 split because it is more balanced. others say x4 level isn't even fully saturated so who cares how they're split.

in that recommended build, the gtx580 is the top of the top single card (not counting cards with two chips on it).... so to sli that beast means you must really need the power....which means if you oc the 2500k and have all 4 ram slots filled AND slap 2x gtx580, you're gonna need one hell of a psu and a great mobo. so really, the only place to "trim the fat" was getting the 2500k instead of the 2600k, you can choose a less costly ssd (but as the other guy mentioned, if all you really do is turn on the pc for gaming, it's not gonna give you a life changing experience), and you can get a cheaper case.

 

[SylEm]

that actually makes a lot more sense to me, thanks for pointing that out. So if I'm understanding correctly, by going with something like BIOSTAR TZ68A+ LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard, which is only $99 and I believe its the one Gigant suggested, I wouldn't really notice any difference in performance with my single video card I'm expecting to use (GTX 580) in comparison to boards like ASRock Z68 EXTREME4 GEN3? And if I ended up using SLi, there WOULD be a performance difference but not significant enough to notice in comparison to the cost?

I'm sorry for rambling I'm just trying to make sure I understand all this.

 

[SylEm]

in that recommended build, the gtx580 is the top of the top single card (not counting cards with two chips on it).... so to sli that beast means you must really need the power....which means if you oc the 2500k and have all 4 ram slots filled AND slap 2x gtx580, you're gonna need one hell of a psu and a great mobo. so really, the only place to "trim the fat" was getting the 2500k instead of the 2600k, you can choose a less costly ssd (but as the other guy mentioned, if all you really do is turn on the pc for gaming, it's not gonna give you a life changing experience), and you can get a cheaper case.

I might OC the CPU on the 2500k but not 100% positive yet, if I do, I wouldn't push it too far. The PSU I have is a corsair 1000w so I assume that would handle all that ok right? That being said, it sounds like (assuming I end up doing the scenario I just quoted you on) that I should stick with the original mobo that I thought of? Also, I definetely agree the case could probably come down in cost but I don't know which case would be a more affordable fit. My biggest worry is that I won't have enough room/air flow for what I want to eventually build (as your quote described). Any suggestions for a case for my means?

 

[Gigantopithecus]

that actually makes a lot more sense to me, thanks for pointing that out. So if I'm understanding correctly, by going with something like BIOSTAR TZ68A+ LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard, which is only $99 and I believe its the one Gigant suggested, I wouldn't really notice any difference in performance with my single video card I'm expecting to use (GTX 580) in comparison to boards like ASRock Z68 EXTREME4 GEN3?

If using a single card, you would notice no difference whatsoever.

And if I ended up using SLi, there WOULD be a performance difference but not significant enough to notice in comparison to the cost?

Gotta read through those links I posted. You can see that x16/x4 vs x8/x8 does not often make a noticeable difference, but sometimes it does. The tests over at Tom's Hardware illustrate that the difference between x4 and x16 is almost always less than 10%. You decide whether that's worth $100.

I'm sorry for rambling I'm just trying to make sure I understand all this.

That's what we're here for!

 

[SylEm]

well if I'm looking at a 10% difference in performance, then no, $100 isn't worth it. In that case (and I know I've asked a bunch), out of the mobos that we've all talked about, which one would be the best choice if not the ASUS P8Z68-V PRO LGA in your opinion?

thanks again!

 

[SylEm]

oh also, what would be a good case to consider instead of the Corsair Obsidian Series 650D? That one seems awesome but really expensive

 

[Puppies04]

well if I'm looking at a 10% difference in performance, then no, $100 isn't worth it. In that case (and I know I've asked a bunch), out of the mobos that we've all talked about, which one would be the best choice if not the ASUS P8Z68-V PRO LGA in your opinion?

thanks again!

Ok now you are coming around to the massive jump in prices hardware vendors slap on "top end kit" can I pursuade you to forget about the GTX580. Unless you are gaming at 2560*1440 a GTX560ti will be more than enough for what you need and you could SLI (and blow a GTX580 out of the water) them for less than the price of 1 GTX580. Save your money for another sensible upgrade in a year or 2 when you can pick up another "mid range" gaming card and still have spent less than buying 1 580 now.

 

[mfenn]

What resolution is your monitor? If you plan on keeping the 22"-er and it's 1680x1050, SLI GTX 580s is pointless. Actually, SLI GTX 580' would be pretty pointless unless you were rocking a 27" or 30".

With that in mind, here's a build that will give you a substantial fraction of the performance for a lot less money.

i5 2500K $220
GA-Z68A-D3H $129
ADATA DDR3 1333 8GB $40
6950 2GB $245 AR
Crucial M4 128GB $212
Samsung F3 1TB $60
Sony DVD Burner $20
HAF 922 $80 AR
Total: $1006 AR (w/o shipping and tax)

6970's all seem out of stock on Newegg or stupid expensive. If you want to really up the graphical horsepower (not that it's necessary on a 22" monitor), then add a second 6950.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

I'd stay away from the GA-Z68A-D3H. Google "gigabyte z68 cold boot loop." A number of the hits are threads on Anandtech.

 

[dma0991]

I'm surprised to see how a small rant about x16x4 turned out to be such a discussion. :awe: I'm well aware that x4 is still able to support a GPU with minimal bottleneck compared to x16 or x8 but if you're paying that much money for other parts I don't see the need to thrift on a motherboard that is limited to x16x4. We don't even know if the next gen 28nm GPUs might be bandwidth starved resulting in bigger performance loss.

All the boards mentioned in this thread are x8x8 so no need to worry too much about bandwidth problems. As for OP, getting GTX580 SLI is not going to help much if you're gaming at a lower resolution. Unless you're running a 3D monitor or a triple display setup, I think that a single GTX580 will suffice for now.

 

[mnewsham]

A single GTX 570 will suffice for now (for a lot less money the 580)

 

[darckhart]

well, tbh, i have owned many cases and the only ones i've actually been happy with thus far are my old and trusy lian li pc60 plus, the antec 900, and the corsair 650d. however, i'm in the minority in that i'm very picky about certain features, and i swap hardware A LOT, so i end up noticing a bunch things that get very annoying. (i wrote a mini review of the 650d over on xs if you are curious about what i think.) if you intend on building once and just blowing out the dust every so often, then there are MUCH cheaper alternatives that should meet all your performance requirements. unfortunately, most of us on these boards tend toward the snazzier end of the spectrum and recommendations of the most popular ones would most likely set you back a minimum of 100$ which, however, is still a significant savings from the 650d.

if you check my sig, a system i'm currently testing is based on the asrock z68 extreme4 (not gen3 version) and i can personally say that it is a stellar board for the price. (if you care to check, there's also quite a large thread on it over on xs with the general consensus agreeing.) some people have reported bugs with esata and usb3, but i have not personally run into those.

significant savings could also be had with lower tier video card and choosing a mechanical hdd instead of ssd. but these things can only be judged by you. the former depends on your screen resolution, what types of games you play (or apps you use), and what sort of eyecandy settings you NEED. if you simply "don't know" what you need, then i'd recommend picking up a used ati 6850 to try out on the cheap. if you find out you need just a little more power, you can oc it to 6870 spec or beyond. more and you can sell and step up to ati 6950/6970 or nvidia gtx 560/570, although now you're creeping up to the $225+ range. with the latter, personally, ssd on the desktop is not a lifechanging experience. i can certainly vouch that it makes a world of difference on a laptop, but i cannot say the same on a desktop. i'll reiterate that if you all you intend on doing is gaming and light office work and maybe watching videos, then a 7200 rpm mechanical drive with large cache *should* suffice.

(i'm only writing these long posts since it seems you actually read them. heh.)

 

[greenhawk]

only noticable cutting of the fat without huge performance changes would be

cpu to 2500K
GPU to GTX570
SSD to either a Corsair Force Series 3, OCZ Agility 3 or similar

In the case of the SSD, about $80 cheaper and hard to tell the difference outside of bentchmarks. Ofcourse, some people are having issues with the controller on the above SSDs, so if $80 is worth some piece of mind, or dropping down to the Series 2/Agility2 (sata 2 speeds) at the same price, but a lot more well tested.

Case, well, to me it is just a box to hold things with fans moving air around. Last case was $50 plus extra for PSU.