Gamestop: 360 returns are down

[Queasy]

Interesting

The GameStop executives said they have noticed that sales of Microsoft's XBox 360 have not been hurt by the machines' widely reported design defects, which cause the consoles to fail. "All I can say is that we have not seen anything negative from that," Mr. McKenzie said. "We track our returns, and returns have actually gone down since they made that announcement, and we haven't seen any effect on enthusiasm for the 360."

Halo 3 is a big part of the buzz around the 360. The executives would not say how many pre-orders they have taken for the Microsoft game, but, Mr. McKenzie said, "Halo 3 is on track probably to be the largest release that we have had in the history of the company."

 

[hans030390]

Perhaps they haven't seen any drops in enthusiasm at the store, but there are plenty of people out there that are the total opposite of enthusiastic for the 360 due to the RROD.

Perhaps these new heatsinks have a small effect on the RROD problem, though I don't see them as a permanent fix.

 

[Queasy]

Well, if they're selling roughly the same amount of 360s as before and returns are down, that is good news. It means that MS is headed in the right direction in making the 360 a reliable consumer product.

MS needs sales to spike back up though. The NPD numbers aren't in since the $50 price drop but sales were reaching a plateau before that. Obviously, Halo 3 will have a huge affect this month and next month however.

 

[blurredvision]

I've been holding back to give my thoughts on this issue, since all my opinions are derived from what I see at the Gamestop I work at, and the others in the district. But since you started this thread, I'll add my thoughts here.

As a disclaimer, nothing of what I say should be considered as fact for the state of the 360 and PS3 as a whole, but only as my opinion. I feel that the 15-20 hours a week I put in at Gamestop have given me some pretty good insight as to how the general public think, and I think the buying trends speak for themselves as a whole, also.

Here are my thoughts:

• The general populace does not know a single thing about the issues of the 360, although word has gotten out. The nerds are obviously using it as the focal points of their jokes of the 360 when they come in to talk. Other occassional shoppers will ask us about it, since they've heard it in passing somewhere, or saw it on the news. Most everyone inquiring about purchasing one, though, have no idea about it, or are atleast informed enough about the warranty themselves that they don't have to ask.
• My entire district has been completely sold out of used and refurbished 360 systems for about 3 weeks now. We have been unable to easily find one for customers looking to go the cheaper route, and some have just given up and paid for a new one. From what I've overheard from managers, this is much the case across the nation, but I don't know where they got their info. Some of the managers seem to like to make things up so they sound important a lot of times.
• The PS3 price drop has intrigued quite a few people, but the genereal consensus I've gathered is that it's still too high. People scoff just as much at the $499 as they did/do at the $599. On the same side, people also scoff at the $449 Elite 360.
• The 360 has sold very well since the price drop. Our store has easily went through 20-30 Premium systems since the Aug 8th announcement, with just a couple of Core's (we only get 2 at a time) and a couple of Elite's here and there.
• The PS3 still doesn't sell that well, and neither do the games. At my particular store, the big seller is still PS2 and 360 games (with PS2 in the lead by a large margin, obviously). I hardly ever see a PS3 game sold....I'm talking maybe 1 or 2 a week in my 15-20 hours. This could just be a fluke, though it's been like this since I first started 3 months ago.
• Lair came and went without big fanfare. A good number of the preorders still haven't been picked up. Maybe the bad reviews and bad internet buzz got to it.
• Most everyone balk at and make fun of the $129 Legendary Halo 3 edition. It's quite amusing the amount of people who ask if you can wear the helmet when you tell them about it (it was the first thing I asked, also, so I'm not innocent ).

Oh well, that ended up being long winded, and far away from the topic at hand .

 

[CKDragon]

Originally posted by: hans030390
Perhaps they haven't seen any drops in enthusiasm at the store, but there are plenty of people out there that are the total opposite of enthusiastic for the 360 due to the RROD.

We, the people on tech boards daily, are not the majority of Xbox 360 users. Even though this was well-publicized there are still "plenty of people" that have never heard of the problem or don't realize how widespread it became.

Perhaps these new heatsinks have a small effect on the RROD problem, though I don't see them as a permanent fix.

Are you expecting the heatsink on my 360 Elite to spontaneously combust?

If you don't think it's a good enough fix and have some return statistics specifically for the zephyr models or technical expertise that the rest of the internet is lacking, I'm all ears. It's certainly possible, but to be taken seriously you have to back it up with more than "Well, that's how I see it."

If you don't think it's a permanent fix in that Microsoft will be making additional alterations, we've all known about the eventual 65nm revision for over a year.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: CKDragon

Originally posted by: hans030390
Perhaps they haven't seen any drops in enthusiasm at the store, but there are plenty of people out there that are the total opposite of enthusiastic for the 360 due to the RROD.

We, the people on tech boards daily, are not the majority of Xbox 360 users. Even though this was well-publicized there are still "plenty of people" that have never heard of the problem or don't realize how widespread it became.

Perhaps these new heatsinks have a small effect on the RROD problem, though I don't see them as a permanent fix.

Are you expecting the heatsink on my 360 Elite to spontaneously combust?

If you don't think it's a good enough fix and have some return statistics specifically for the zephyr models or technical expertise that the rest of the internet is lacking, I'm all ears. It's certainly possible, but to be taken seriously you have to back it up with more than "Well, that's how I see it."

If you don't think it's a permanent fix in that Microsoft will be making additional alterations, we've all known about the eventual 65nm revision for over a year.

A majority of kids at my school are well aware of the RROD problem, and they aren't the types that get on internet forums...a lot of them don't do anything more to gain knowledge than a normal gamer would.

Sure, there are a good majority of those that don't know, but plenty do.

Also, I don't expect your 360 with new heatsinks to combust. I think it has a better chance of not failing, but I don't think the chances are that much better. I've heard a couple reports (one seen on qj.net) saying that the systems with the new heatsinks still get the RROD problem.

I was also aware of the 65nm revision. That wasn't a real part of what I was saying, but I guess you could see the revision as the more permanent fix over the heatsinks.

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: hans030390

A majority of kids at my school are well aware of the RROD problem, and they aren't the types that get on internet forums...a lot of them don't do anything more to gain knowledge than a normal gamer would.

Sure, there are a good majority of those that don't know, but plenty do.

Also, I don't expect your 360 with new heatsinks to combust. I think it has a better chance of not failing, but I don't think the chances are that much better. I've heard a couple reports (one seen on qj.net) saying that the systems with the new heatsinks still get the RROD problem.

I was also aware of the 65nm revision. That wasn't a real part of what I was saying, but I guess you could see the revision as the more permanent fix over the heatsinks.

The only ones I have seen were ones in a tight display case. In which, I have seen PS3 die from frequent overheating.

 

[VashHT]

I also believe that the 360 RRoD is far more public than some people in this thread make it out to be. its not only "nerds" joking about the problems with it. I have had several people ask me at work(because they know I have a 360) if the problems with it breaking down are fixed yet, because they want to wait until its fixed to buy one. When I took my 360 to UPS to ship to the repair center, every UPS worker there knew it was a 360 despite the fact its just a plain white box. When I picked it up it was the same thing, they were all like" oh another xbox". The thing thats far more annoying than problems witht he 360 are people who try to deny anything is wrong. I've actually seen people on forums saying 33% isn't that bad of a failure rate and people should stop complaining, which is ridiculous. I work as a hardware engineer, and 33% is a ridiculous failure rate. That being said I really hope this is true, because I don't want my 360 breaking again this winter when theres actually games I want.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: foghorn67
The only ones I have seen were ones in a tight display case. In which, I have seen PS3 die from frequent overheating.

Hardware dying in a tight area with poor airflow is pretty common.

 

[CasioTech]

33% is a joke of course. But you have to understand that the general public is stupid and allow such a calamity. If they knew better they would stay away but they don't care, they want their fix today and not think of tomorrow. Also these are kids who could care less if they get a refurb and are completely oblivious to the principles of paying full price for something new and getting a broken repaired piece of shit in return.

 

[CKDragon]

Originally posted by: hans030390

Originally posted by: CKDragon

Originally posted by: hans030390
Perhaps they haven't seen any drops in enthusiasm at the store, but there are plenty of people out there that are the total opposite of enthusiastic for the 360 due to the RROD.

We, the people on tech boards daily, are not the majority of Xbox 360 users. Even though this was well-publicized there are still "plenty of people" that have never heard of the problem or don't realize how widespread it became.

Perhaps these new heatsinks have a small effect on the RROD problem, though I don't see them as a permanent fix.

Are you expecting the heatsink on my 360 Elite to spontaneously combust?

If you don't think it's a good enough fix and have some return statistics specifically for the zephyr models or technical expertise that the rest of the internet is lacking, I'm all ears. It's certainly possible, but to be taken seriously you have to back it up with more than "Well, that's how I see it."

If you don't think it's a permanent fix in that Microsoft will be making additional alterations, we've all known about the eventual 65nm revision for over a year.

A majority of kids at my school are well aware of the RROD problem, and they aren't the types that get on internet forums...a lot of them don't do anything more to gain knowledge than a normal gamer would.

Sure, there are a good majority of those that don't know, but plenty do.

In my opinion, with the average age of the video game player being 33, only considering the people in your high school would be overly egocentric. Assuming you believe that young people in general follow technology more closely than the old people (God knows we've all laughed at old people! They're so old! ), I would expect that your high school would not be representative of the general population.

There are manipulative reasons for a company like Gamestop to put out a report like this, but it's probably the closest Corporate America is going to let us get to the "facts."

 

[CasioTech]

that study is BS!




no way in hell the average gamer is 33. Nintendo alone is for ages 12 down. The rest are teenagers. Where do they come up with this stuff?




Meaning for every 10 y/o there is a 56 y/o playing games? RIGHT, lol.




It goes on to state the average game buyer is 38. Exactly, he's buying games for his kids.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: hans030390
Also, I don't expect your 360 with new heatsinks to combust. I think it has a better chance of not failing, but I don't think the chances are that much better. I've heard a couple reports (one seen on qj.net) saying that the systems with the new heatsinks still get the RROD problem.

You mentioned that in an older thread, but the thread I found at qj.net was for a refurb unit with "classic" motherboard that had the heatsink added, not a Zephyr motherboard with epoxy, heatsink and HDMI.

A possibly-defective refurb with slapped-on heatsink isn't comparable to a Zephyr motherboard that has had the epoxy and heatsink from day 1.

(Not that I'd buy a Zephyr Premium or Elite -- I'm holding out for a 65nm Falcon.)

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

hi2u troll.

I'm 33 and I buy games for myself.

 

[randay]

im 48 and my daddy and mommy buys all my games for me.

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: hans030390

Originally posted by: foghorn67
The only ones I have seen were ones in a tight display case. In which, I have seen PS3 die from frequent overheating.

Hardware dying in a tight area with poor airflow is pretty common.

that's what I am saying. The two elite RROD's were display models. And no new-gen console is immune from that.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: hans030390

Originally posted by: foghorn67
The only ones I have seen were ones in a tight display case. In which, I have seen PS3 die from frequent overheating.

Hardware dying in a tight area with poor airflow is pretty common.

that's what I am saying. The two elite RROD's were display models. And no new-gen console is immune from that.

well there is a difference between RROD and crashing/freezing. one, the console is completely dead and unusable after, the other, you can just wait for it to cool? or simply reboot. unless you meant completely dying like how a 360 does when it gets RROD??

 

[mlm]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: hans030390

Originally posted by: foghorn67
The only ones I have seen were ones in a tight display case. In which, I have seen PS3 die from frequent overheating.

Hardware dying in a tight area with poor airflow is pretty common.

that's what I am saying. The two elite RROD's were display models. And no new-gen console is immune from that.

well there is a difference between RROD and crashing/freezing. one, the console is completely dead and unusable after, the other, you can just wait for it to cool? or simply reboot. unless you meant completely dying like how a 360 does when it gets RROD??

The ones I've seen in stores had the RROD. It's pretty funny too cause they all popped up at the same time at most of the Targets I went to.

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: hans030390

Originally posted by: foghorn67
The only ones I have seen were ones in a tight display case. In which, I have seen PS3 die from frequent overheating.

Hardware dying in a tight area with poor airflow is pretty common.

that's what I am saying. The two elite RROD's were display models. And no new-gen console is immune from that.

well there is a difference between RROD and crashing/freezing. one, the console is completely dead and unusable after, the other, you can just wait for it to cool? or simply reboot. unless you meant completely dying like how a 360 does when it gets RROD??

No, I have seen PS3s DIE, not freeze and let cool down. RMA time.
As I said, crappy displays will KILL anything.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: hans030390

Originally posted by: foghorn67
The only ones I have seen were ones in a tight display case. In which, I have seen PS3 die from frequent overheating.

Hardware dying in a tight area with poor airflow is pretty common.

that's what I am saying. The two elite RROD's were display models. And no new-gen console is immune from that.

well there is a difference between RROD and crashing/freezing. one, the console is completely dead and unusable after, the other, you can just wait for it to cool? or simply reboot. unless you meant completely dying like how a 360 does when it gets RROD??

No, I have seen PS3s DIE, not freeze and let cool down. RMA time.
As I said, crappy displays will KILL anything.

Yeah, displays will do that...we're talking about normal home usage with good airflow.

I guess in my area, the gamers are all mostly teens. 33 seems WAY to high for me.

 

[Jules]

glad i never had that problem. still have my launch xbox 360 premium and my new HDMI Premium

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: VashHT
I also believe that the 360 RRoD is far more public than some people in this thread make it out to be. its not only "nerds" joking about the problems with it. I have had several people ask me at work(because they know I have a 360) if the problems with it breaking down are fixed yet, because they want to wait until its fixed to buy one. When I took my 360 to UPS to ship to the repair center, every UPS worker there knew it was a 360 despite the fact its just a plain white box. When I picked it up it was the same thing, they were all like" oh another xbox". The thing thats far more annoying than problems witht he 360 are people who try to deny anything is wrong. I've actually seen people on forums saying 33% isn't that bad of a failure rate and people should stop complaining, which is ridiculous. I work as a hardware engineer, and 33% is a ridiculous failure rate. That being said I really hope this is true, because I don't want my 360 breaking again this winter when theres actually games I want.

I had the same experience with the people at the UPS store. The guy was even trying to tell me about a sale Target was having with one of the "coolers".

Anyway, I do think the 360 has a major reliability problem...but I know MS is working on it and I CERTAINLY would not wait to get one as there is way too much quality gaming out and coming this holiday season. Getting my 360 fixed was a fairly painless (other than not being able to play) 3 week process that cost me nothing.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons


(Not that I'd buy a Zephyr Premium or Elite -- I'm holding out for a 65nm Falcon.)

I'm waiting on the Falcon to buy my second (with a larger hard drive)...but I wouldn't wait on it for my first as there is just too much fun to be had. Call of Duty 4 online has been fantastic. Bioshock is amazing. Forza 2 is great. Madden 08 has been a blast with friends (soooo much better than 07). Gears of War is still fun to pop in. Rainbow Six is a blast online. Halo 3 is days away. Mass Effect is going to be AMAZING...there's no doubt about it (Bioware is incapable of making a bad game IMHO).

Common Dave...jump in!

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: hans030390

I guess in my area, the gamers are all mostly teens. 33 seems WAY to high for me.

You have to remember that at 33, a lot of those guys/gals grew up on the NES and Atari 2600...when console gaming really caught on. Not only that, but they were there when arcades were huge. Really anyone from the age of 30-40 were there when video games really came to be and look on them fondly as a connection with their youth.

My dad played stick ball and baseball all the time when he was a kid. To this day (and he's just turning 70 this coming January), he still regularly goes to the batting cage and loves going to baseball games. It reminds him of his youth and playing stick ball in Brooklyn.

Playing anything from Bioshock to XBLA Frogger brings back fond memories of spending hours trying to beat Super Mario Brothers at my friends house.

My point is...the average age of gamers is rising and is going to continue to rise as people who grew up with games get older. I still see myself being 70 and playing video games. Heck, my wife (who would be the furthest thing from the definition of a nerd) loves playing Viva Pinata.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: PricklyPete

Originally posted by: hans030390

I guess in my area, the gamers are all mostly teens. 33 seems WAY to high for me.

You have to remember that at 33, a lot of those guys/gals grew up on the NES and Atari 2600...when console gaming really caught on. Not only that, but they were there when arcades were huge. Really anyone from the age of 30-40 were there when video games really came to be and look on them fondly as a connection with their youth.

My dad played stick ball and baseball all the time when he was a kid. To this day (and he's just turning 70 this coming January), he still regularly goes to the batting cage and loves going to baseball games. It reminds him of his youth and playing stick ball in Brooklyn.

Playing anything from Bioshock to XBLA Frogger brings back fond memories of spending hours trying to beat Super Mario Brothers at my friends house.

My point is...the average age of gamers is rising and is going to continue to rise as people who grew up with games get older. I still see myself being 70 and playing video games. Heck, my wife (who would be the furthest thing from the definition of a nerd) loves playing Viva Pinata.

Bingo. I'm about to turn 33 and I started out with an Atari 2600. I later got an Atari 5200 and a SNES as well. I then got hooked on PC gaming with D&D - Pool of Radiance and didn't get back to console gaming until the Dreamcast and have moved to almost 100% console gaming only now.

Gaming is a hobby just like any other hobby. It is has the stigma of being kids only but there are plenty of adults that grew up playing video games that still enjoy it today.

My only complaint is that I just don't have the time for gaming like I used to. A full-time job, marriage, two kids, a house, sports, and a side-business will do that to you. I literally have not played a game in almost three weeks. I rented Bioshock the week it came out and have not had the time to play it.