You are seriously making the argument that women shouldn't speak if they don't want to be harassed.
Allow me to repeat: lolwut.
Things like this are why gamergate has such a horrible reputation.
You are seriously making the argument that women shouldn't speak if they don't want to be harassed.
Allow me to repeat: lolwut.
Things like this are why gamergate has such a horrible reputation.
JSt0rm
Lifer
- Sep 5, 2000
- 27,399
- 3,948
- 126
He is probably a midget with a genetic disorder and no women will ever talk or touch him. Leave him alone. I think a lot of the animosity from gamers comes from a lot of "nerdy" guys that will never get laid. They get confidence in that environment and get to finally say something to all the women in their lives that never gave them the time of day.
Look it's really pretty simply common sense.
If I come into my clan's teamspeak and talk about how I voted, some people will probably start to discuss political topics. If I then complain about the political discussion, I am an idiot.
If I come onto teamspeak and I am constantly coughing into the mic because I have a cold, people might ask me to mute it or they might joke about how I am dying or i have lung cancer. If I then complain about the comments, I am an idiot.
I am a 7 year old kid and I come onto my clan's team speak and talk and they are like "holy shit there is a kid in teamspeak". If I am then kicked out of teamspeak because of being under the age limit for the clan. If I then complain about that, I am an idiot.
But if I am a girl, and I talk in teamspeak, and some dude whispers "oh you have a sexy voice", He is an asshole harasser and he had no right to say that thing and the whole internet needs to be changed to cater to me so I can do whatever I want and never get a response that *I* might view as negative.
Is this or is this not a double-standard?
BS. Harassment examples often include singular comments or whispers. There is no way to know it's unwanted until a response has been seen. And then you have the girl who doesn't want the attention but she also has no balls, so instead of asking for it to stop she just tries to "be nice" and ignore it while never actually making it clear that it is unwanted.
Atomic Playboy
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2007
- 16,432
- 1
- 81
They're just filling a need. It's not like these bitches are gonna harass themselves...
I really don't understand people who will bend over backwards to defend their right to be an asshole while never considering that maybe being an asshole isn't really behavior worth defending.
Nope, still wrong.
If a woman views any response based on her gender as harassment, then yes she should hide her gender.
However, for a rational intelligent woman who can accept some fun gender-based banter and comments, it's perfectly fine to reveal sex.
Basically it's like walking into a singles bar and complaining when someone offers to buy you a drink. I am not saying all women need to stay out- but if you are going to make a stink out of a friendly comment and try to call it "harassment", then yes, YOU need to stay out- not all women, just you.
Atomic Playboy
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2007
- 16,432
- 1
- 81
Single comments are not harassment. If a woman talks in a game server and someone says "you got a sexy voice," she can nip it in the bud by saying she's not interested and just play the game. It's when the behavior has been identified as unwanted but it continues that it crosses the line into harassment. The problem is that sort of thing happens all the time in online gaming, and it leads to attitudes like you've espoused about just hiding one's gender. That's not a solution. That's literally saying "women are not welcome here so don't let them know who you really are." And that's unacceptable in modern society. Women should feel like they can talk in a video game without having a bunch of teenage boys screaming "show us your tits!"
To continue the analogy you started, if a woman goes to a bar and someone offers to buy her a drink, she can say "not interested," and that's the end of it. If that same person starts following her around the bar pestering her and shouting curse words at her, you know what happens? The bar kicks that drunk asshole out. That's the part of the equation that's missing from a lot of online interaction. We need more bouncers who can see the harassment happening and say "nope, not in here."
Personally I think he has something there. Black people cam live on the Internet and never experience any color discrimination by not talking or telling bigots they are black.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
Are YOU serious?
Christ on crutches, just look at this very forum. I don't know of a single woman here in P&N, but it's still a bunch of assholes being mean to each other. Is being mean to a woman because you're an asshole somehow worse than being mean to a man because you're an asshole?
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Your analogy is flawed.
The bouncer wouldn't immediately kick the guy out, the bouncer would ask "is this man bothering you?"
Woman says yes, then the bouncer might remove him from the premises.
In virtually every modern online game I have played, a simple /ignore serves the same purpose as the bouncer.
Why isn't that enough?
Are you expecting me to believe that you think women are too stupid to use an ignore function? Or is it that an ignore function doesn't serve the true purpose behind this so-called equality movement- which is to put the woman in a superior position, not equal at all?
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
What's your point? That there are some asshole GGers? Yeah, no shit.
There's some asshole SJWs too.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sjw+bingo
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
I have played plenty of female characters. Never been harassed.
You'd think with the massive misogyny that you claim is out there, I'd have been harassed at least once. Maybe I'm just really lucky.
Gotta respond to this again, because I realized another huge flaw.
Bars have bouncers because of the potential of unruly drunk people getting in a physical fight, and the bar being liable for serious damages or possibly legal fees. If some pimply-faced nerd tells the bouncer that someone said something mean to him, the bouncer would laugh about it and say "so what?"
The bouncer is there to prevent real issues from occurring, not stuff like mean words or harassment. Now, the bar has a vested interest in taking care of paying customers so in some circumstances a jerk who is getting completely out of hand might be asked to leave, but that is not why the bouncer is there. In the real world, if you are unhappy with the words people are using in a bar, you are the one who is supposed to leave.
Somehow on the internet the SJW and feminazis think that every possible venue needs to cater to them and nobody else.
MrPickins
Diamond Member
- May 24, 2003
- 9,125
- 792
- 126
Men on ATPN being assholes to each other means that women are not more often harassed than men in online games? Do you not see the logical disconnect?
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Atomic Playboy
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2007
- 16,432
- 1
- 81
An ignore function? That's your answer? Gee, let me think how that could possibly fail to alleviate the issue... "Oh, she's ignoring me? OK, I'll start team attacking her and griefing her until she pays attention to me." That's the equivalent of the bouncer saying "we know that guy was bothering you, but we're not going to kick him out, we just told him not to talk to you." And then every now and then he comes by and dumps a drink on you. Just ignore it!
You're really going out of your way to defend harassment. Why not just go with "be nice to people"?
So you equate harassment to having drinks poured over someone?
The whole point, which you seem to fail to grasp, is that words on the internet don't hurt ANYBODY. A drink can stain clothes, cause physical harm if the glass contacts the person, and generally cause real tangible damage, unlike online harassment.
When you ignore someone in most online games, that is the end of it- they no longer have any contact with you. If you happen to be playing a real PvP game, maybe they can continue to attack your character in game, but that is the whole point of the game.
If you don't want other players to be able to attack your character, don't play a PvP game, this is basic common sense 101.
Ah yes, what a solution.
Why stop there? Lets just say "don't break the law". There we go, I just solved all crime! Nobody will ever commit another crime because I just asked them not to.
In seriousness, the problem has been explained to you repeatedly and you seem to be too dense to understand it.
"be nice to people"
Male gamer asks a female sounding gamer if she is single, response: "WTF, ASSHOLE, I DON'T WANT TO BE HARASSED, GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS GAME AND LEAVE ME ALONE!"
Female gamer asking male gamer the same- very difference response.
It's impossible to be nice to everybody when different people react in different ways to the exact same thing.
The whole point, which you seem to fail to grasp, is that words on the internet don't hurt ANYBODY. A drink can stain clothes, cause physical harm if the glass contacts the person, and generally cause real tangible damage, unlike online harassment.
When you ignore someone in most online games, that is the end of it- they no longer have any contact with you. If you happen to be playing a real PvP game, maybe they can continue to attack your character in game, but that is the whole point of the game.
If you don't want other players to be able to attack your character, don't play a PvP game, this is basic common sense 101.
Ah yes, what a solution.
Why stop there? Lets just say "don't break the law". There we go, I just solved all crime! Nobody will ever commit another crime because I just asked them not to.
In seriousness, the problem has been explained to you repeatedly and you seem to be too dense to understand it.
"be nice to people"
Male gamer asks a female sounding gamer if she is single, response: "WTF, ASSHOLE, I DON'T WANT TO BE HARASSED, GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS GAME AND LEAVE ME ALONE!"
Female gamer asking male gamer the same- very difference response.
It's impossible to be nice to everybody when different people react in different ways to the exact same thing.
JSt0rm
Lifer
- Sep 5, 2000
- 27,399
- 3,948
- 126
We must cleans the earth of the genetically mis-shapen. It will be the final solution to the gaymer gate issue.
Wow. Holy fucking shit.
Gamergate's harassment is <0.6% of its population due to trolls latching on.
But you've bought into the Games media SJW circle wank message so hard you are advocating for a final solution in a joking manner AND referring to an entire group of people as "gays"?
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
Logical disconnect? How is:
A bunch of men being assholes to men 24/7 in a political forum
and
A bunch of men being assholes to men and women 24/7 in a game
any different? It's men being assholes in general. That's what we do. If the problem is men being assholes, it's not limited to video games and it's not limited to "the other team."
Anybody who's a delicate flower is going to get stomped on, whether it's in a video game or in ATP&N. Being a woman or gay or trans or any other currently popular victim has nothing to do with it.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
MrPickins
Diamond Member
- May 24, 2003
- 9,125
- 792
- 126
That's not at all what's being discussed, though.
The question was whether women are more harassed than men in online gaming. You're off on a tangent about people all being dicks to each other, "so why does it matter?"
To go back to my police analogy, you're saying it doesn't matter that black men are killed by police at a much higher rate than whites, because whites get killed also...
Well this is a fun new shitstorm..
Anyone of you saying that women who speak in voice chats online are asking for harassment by implicitly revealing their gender is being an asshole. I mean really, come on. If you know that you'll attract assholes by doing something and decide not to do it for that reason it's up to you, but it's also completely appropriate to stand up against this hostile sexist nonsense.
Here's a link to the study, I recommend reading it and not just the articles:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0131613
There's some interesting features in the raw data, much of which is unfortunately not mentioned by any of the many articles reporting this.
eg, without any attempt to correlate the data with other factors, this is the top 20 counts of negative comments towards the female vs male voice manipulators:
25 24 15 14 13 9 9 8 7 7 7 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 5 4 4
14 10 8 8 8 6 5 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 2
Which shows a pretty huge discrepancy towards women being treated more negatively, supporting accusations of pretty clear sexism.
On the other hand, this is the top 20 for positive comments:
20 14 13 9 7 7 7 6 6 6 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 3 3 3
12 12 10 8 8 6 6 6 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 3
Which show a trend in the opposite direction, if not as pronounced: women receive more positive comments than men.
Anyone of you saying that women who speak in voice chats online are asking for harassment by implicitly revealing their gender is being an asshole. I mean really, come on. If you know that you'll attract assholes by doing something and decide not to do it for that reason it's up to you, but it's also completely appropriate to stand up against this hostile sexist nonsense.
Here's a link to the study, I recommend reading it and not just the articles:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0131613
There's some interesting features in the raw data, much of which is unfortunately not mentioned by any of the many articles reporting this.
eg, without any attempt to correlate the data with other factors, this is the top 20 counts of negative comments towards the female vs male voice manipulators:
25 24 15 14 13 9 9 8 7 7 7 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 5 4 4
14 10 8 8 8 6 5 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 2
Which shows a pretty huge discrepancy towards women being treated more negatively, supporting accusations of pretty clear sexism.
On the other hand, this is the top 20 for positive comments:
20 14 13 9 7 7 7 6 6 6 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 3 3 3
12 12 10 8 8 6 6 6 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 3
Which show a trend in the opposite direction, if not as pronounced: women receive more positive comments than men.
What is your solution to online harassment against women?
Men are going to actively pursue women due to basic biology.
If a woman wants to limit "harassment" received from the opposite gender, never revealing their sex is a start. Not talking on voice com is a good follow up. Doing both of these will pretty much shield you from 99.999999999% of male attention.
It's rare that I use voice coms.
Coming back with the "so you want to misogyny women into never speaking?" is not something I can provide a solution for. Men are going to hit on women, you cannot stop our biology. Women out and about in the world get the same treatment except that anonymity is removed there so it takes it down a few notches.
Removing anonymity isn't something you can do on the internet nor should you be advocating for its removal. That will most definitely hurt women. And privacy groups are doing a lot of good work to ensure that we can remain anonymous online.
So, the only surefire way to remove harassment of women online would be to neuter every single male on the planet AND somehow raise the average skill level of women in video games that are male oriented.
Men are going to actively pursue women due to basic biology.
If a woman wants to limit "harassment" received from the opposite gender, never revealing their sex is a start. Not talking on voice com is a good follow up. Doing both of these will pretty much shield you from 99.999999999% of male attention.
It's rare that I use voice coms.
Coming back with the "so you want to misogyny women into never speaking?" is not something I can provide a solution for. Men are going to hit on women, you cannot stop our biology. Women out and about in the world get the same treatment except that anonymity is removed there so it takes it down a few notches.
Removing anonymity isn't something you can do on the internet nor should you be advocating for its removal. That will most definitely hurt women. And privacy groups are doing a lot of good work to ensure that we can remain anonymous online.
So, the only surefire way to remove harassment of women online would be to neuter every single male on the planet AND somehow raise the average skill level of women in video games that are male oriented.
MrPickins
Diamond Member
- May 24, 2003
- 9,125
- 792
- 126
The only way to curb the harassment is to have the entire community stand up and say that it's not ok and that those participating it will be ostracized.
Instead, you advocate the opposite.
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