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Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
The R can mean Rhaegar or Robert. The Robert theory persists because Jon Snow is "Black of hair" like all his other offspring. Most signs point to Rhaegar though.
Sure, but then I doubt Robert would have asked Ned about the whore that he had a kid with in S1, because there wouldn't have been a whore and it would have been Robert's kid.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
"It must be me."
Why?
Because Tyrion put him in this position where he has to prove himself to his sister to atone.

Pretty sure it's genuine.
I took that line as it must be Jaime because, ya know, he's the father. Tyrion didn't put him in this situation, Jaime did by not claiming his children. Cersei and Jaime went over this in the previous episode when he told her he was going to Dawn.
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
If it's aired it's kosher, but I'm sure someone will get their panties twisted. :p
Whats funny is I never used to see those previews because I was getting the show from newsgroups. The uploaders must edit them out to conserve data rate. Anyways, now I have HBO Now and I see the next episode preview, and it seems like it spoils the next episode. If I didnt see the preview I would have thought Selmy was gonna make it, but now I'm convinced he doesnt. If they turn out to be misleading I will just skip them.
 

wetech

Senior member
Jul 16, 2002
871
6
81
Whats funny is I never used to see those previews because I was getting the show from newsgroups. The uploaders must edit them out to conserve data rate. Anyways, now I have HBO Now and I see the next episode preview, and it seems like it spoils the next episode. If I didnt see the preview I would have thought Selmy was gonna make it, but now I'm convinced he doesnt. If they turn out to be misleading I will just skip them.
He was lying on a slab. He's toast. Also, the actor gave an interview about how it felt to shoot his last GOT scene.

People shouldn't have to worry about spoilers much longer. The show has condensed / cut / changed so much from the last books that they're almost caught up 1/3 through the season.
 

Pens1566

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2005
7,549
666
126
The R can mean Rhaegar or Robert. The Robert theory persists because Jon Snow is "Black of hair" like all his other offspring. Most signs point to Rhaegar though.
That's news to me. I've never heard that part of the rumor refer to Robert. It really makes no sense as Robert/Lyanna were intended to be married anyway, so why keep it a secret? The "secret" part of it is to keep Jon safe from Robert's retaliation after Lyanna's death due to him being a Targaryen.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,440
6
81
The R can mean Rhaegar or Robert. The Robert theory persists because Jon Snow is "Black of hair" like all his other offspring. Most signs point to Rhaegar though.
Rhaenys Targaryen had brown hair like her mother Elia Martell, so there's no reason why a son of Rhaegar and Leanna couldn't have black hair. Those Targaryens were always inbreeding precisely to try to avoid problems like this.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
99,997
13,973
136
Whats funny is I never used to see those previews because I was getting the show from newsgroups. The uploaders must edit them out to conserve data rate. Anyways, now I have HBO Now and I see the next episode preview, and it seems like it spoils the next episode. If I didnt see the preview I would have thought Selmy was gonna make it, but now I'm convinced he doesnt. If they turn out to be misleading I will just skip them.
I tend to avoid the up-next bits as best I can; I also don't like seeing the "previously on" just before each new episode. I don't need a summary of what to expect just before I see it. If I'm missing something from way back, I'll go back and watch that bit on rerun.

as for this thread, I recall that it's fair game, though considered "polite" to mention that you are talking about the next episode preview before speculating on details.
 

Drako

Lifer
Jun 9, 2007
10,706
160
106
He dies because he had given a heartwarming story, from out of nowhere, just prior to his death. As soon as he told that story I knew he was dead.

KT
I guess that means Stannis will be dead shortly?

I'm just starting to like the guy. :'(
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,243
110
116
I tend to avoid the up-next bits as best I can; I also don't like seeing the "previously on" just before each new episode. I don't need a summary of what to expect just before I see it. If I'm missing something from way back, I'll go back and watch that bit on rerun.

as for this thread, I recall that it's fair game, though considered "polite" to mention that you are talking about the next episode preview before speculating on details.
Yep, agree with all of this.

I guess that means Stannis will be dead shortly?

I'm just starting to like the guy. :'(
Heh, well I thought Stannis' talk with his daughter felt a lot more natural and earned, so I doubt it (at least not anytime soon). They kind of built up to it for a while, but the old dude's story came from out of nowhere.

KT
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,031
456
126
That's news to me. I've never heard that part of the rumor refer to Robert. It really makes no sense as Robert/Lyanna were intended to be married anyway, so why keep it a secret? The "secret" part of it is to keep Jon safe from Robert's retaliation after Lyanna's death due to him being a Targaryen.
It's up to George R.R. Martin, but I can think of a lot of reasons a writer might use.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
99,997
13,973
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It's up to George R.R. Martin, but I can think of a lot of reasons a writer might use.
Ned was also very secretive of his mistress at that time, even to Robert. Is it possible that the lady in question was actually the queen of the mad Targaryean king? Robert at least knew that she existed, even if he did not remember her name (fake name, though it may have been). So I think it is fair to say that at the very least, Ned did have a real mistress, regardless of J Snow's father.

Why wouldn't J Snow have silver/white hair if we was the son of a pure Targaryean, even if raping Ned's sister?
 
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Pens1566

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2005
7,549
666
126
Ned was also very secretive of his mistress at that time, even to Robert. Is it possible that the lady in question was actually the queen of the mad Targaryean king? Robert at least knew that she existed, even if he did not remember her name (fake name, though it may have been). So I think it is fair to say that at the very least, Ned did have a real mistress, regardless of J Snow's father.

Why wouldn't J Snow have silver/white hair if we was the son of a pure Targaryean, even if raping Ned's sister?
Or, as has often been pointed out, Ned was too honorable for things like that. They even mentioned it again last episode. Translation, he might not have had a mistress. It's a key point in the theory.

As to your 2nd point, his mother would have been a Stark. Dark hair is entirely possible.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,241
3,107
136
He dies because he had given a heartwarming story, from out of nowhere, just prior to his death. As soon as he told that story I knew he was dead.

KT
I'm never telling anyone a heart warming story out of the blue ever again. :eek:
 
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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,028
75
86
Ned was also very secretive of his mistress at that time, even to Robert. Is it possible that the lady in question was actually the queen of the mad Targaryean king? Robert at least knew that she existed, even if he did not remember her name (fake name, though it may have been). So I think it is fair to say that at the very least, Ned did have a real mistress, regardless of J Snow's father.

Why wouldn't J Snow have silver/white hair if we was the son of a pure Targaryean, even if raping Ned's sister?
Because, he wouldn't be a pure Targaryean if Lyanna was his mother...

We know Jon has Stark blood in his veins, and we know Lyanna and Rhaegar were away from sight. Now, it has been theorized by fans, Ned (who was opposed to killing Dany) rescued the baby. It is never been revealed how Lyanna died, just that she somehow did during the war. Could it be possible, Lyanna and Rhaegar ran off because she was pregnant with his child and she then died in childbirth? When Ned's father and brother went to court to demand the release of Lyanna, the Mad King burned them alive. Why? Because he was mad? Maybe. Because, he knew she hadn't been kidnapped and was offended at such an accusation against his son? Robert himself admitted to only knowing Lyanna from afar. Could it be possible she was in love with someone else? Someone Little Finger revealed had publicly chosen her?

Could we see Ned as being one to give up his honor to save children? He did it to save his children already before Joffrey had his head removed. Would he do the same for his sisters child, even if Rhaegar was the father?

Interesting theories on Jon's actual heritage, at least.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,241
3,107
136
I find it interesting how Sansa is learning the art of speechcraft and manipulation from littlefinger while Arya is learning the art of assassination and killing from the facelessone. The Stark sisters are on their own separate paths learning how to survive in a wicked world in their own way.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,826
82
91
Ned was also very secretive of his mistress at that time, even to Robert. Is it possible that the lady in question was actually the queen of the mad Targaryean king? Robert at least knew that she existed, even if he did not remember her name (fake name, though it may have been). So I think it is fair to say that at the very least, Ned did have a real mistress, regardless of J Snow's father.

Why wouldn't J Snow have silver/white hair if we was the son of a pure Targaryean, even if raping Ned's sister?
one of the chief ways the Targaryeans maintained their characteristic white hair was though incest... perfectly reasonable that if you had a Targaryean/outsider baby, normal genetics would play through and they'd have a chance at either hair color.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
You are the princess Shireen of the house Baratheon, and you are my daughter.

He may have been slow to hug her back, and I think that was wonderfully in character, but damn he delivered that line like a boss.
 

brainhulk

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2007
9,192
340
126
Rhaegar was the son and heir of King Aerys II, better known as The Mad King, and the older brother of Viserys and Daenerys (Emilia Clarke), who was born after Rhaegar's death. He was popular, intelligent, bookish and a noted musician. Tywin Lannister had planned to marry Cersei to Rhaegar. However, Aerys shot down the idea as being beneath his son. Instead, Rhaegar was married to Elia Martell, Oberyn and Prince Doran's sister. Elia loved her husband and she had two children with Rhaegar, a daughter, Rhaenys, and son, Aegon.

However, as Littlefinger briefly explained to Sansa in Sunday's episode, when Rhaegar won a tourney at the cursed Harrenhal, he passed over his wife Elia and crowned Ned Stark's sister Lyanna as The Queen of Love and Beauty. A year later, Rhaegar allegedly abducted Lyanna, an act which ultimately triggered Robert Baratheon's rebellion. But though the Starks and Baratheons view Rhaegar's actions as a violent kidnapping, according to Targaryen lore, Lyanna loved Rhaegar back and went with him consensually.

As the rebellion against House Targaryen gained steam, Rhaegar and Robert met in combat during the Battle of the Trident and Robert killed the beloved prince. It was the result of this battle that inspired Tywin, who had until then remained neutral, to launch the Sack of King's Landing. During this siege, Jaime Lannister slit Aerys' throat, becoming the Kingslayer, and the Mountain, under Twyin's orders, brutally murdered Rhaenys and Aegon before raping and killing Elia too.
 
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DixyCrat

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,731
322
126
Rhaegar was the son and heir of King Aerys II, better known as The Mad King, and the older brother of Viserys and Daenerys (Emilia Clarke), who was born after Rhaegar's death. He was popular, intelligent, bookish and a noted musician. Tywin Lannister had planned to marry Cersei to Rhaegar. However, Aerys shot down the idea as being beneath his son. Instead, Rhaegar was married to Elia Martell, Oberyn and Prince Doran's sister. Elia loved her husband and she had two children with Rhaegar, a daughter, Rhaenys, and son, Aegon.

However, as Littlefinger briefly explained to Sansa in Sunday's episode, when Rhaegar won a tourney at the cursed Harrenhal, he passed over his wife Elia and crowned Ned Stark's sister Lyanna as The Queen of Love and Beauty. A year later, Rhaegar allegedly abducted Lyanna, an act which ultimately triggered Robert Baratheon's rebellion. But though the Starks and Baratheons view Rhaegar's actions as a violent kidnapping, according to Targaryen lore, Lyanna loved Rhaegar back and went with him consensually.

As the rebellion against House Targaryen gained steam, Rhaegar and Robert met in combat during the Battle of the Trident and Robert killed the beloved prince. It was the result of this battle that inspired Tywin, who had until then remained neutral, to launch the Sack of King's Landing. During this siege, Jaime Lannister slit Aerys' throat, becoming the Kingslayer, and the Mountain, under Twyin's orders, brutally murdered Rhaenys and Aegon before raping and killing Elia too.
So Stanis's "blood claim" to the throne is less than a generation old? Also, what the hell is his problem: why is he invading kings landing and such when a Baratheon DOES sit on the iron throne! It's not like he's privy to the mendelian genetics that Ned was.

Really, Stanis is more like Bravos's collection agent; proving that "the Iron Bank is, a temple. We all live in its shadow, and almost none of us know it. You can’t run from them. You can’t cheat them. You can’t sway them with excuses. If you owe them money, and you don’t want to crumble yourself, you pay it back."
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,439
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So Stanis's "blood claim" to the throne is less than a generation old? Also, what the hell is his problem: why is he invading kings landing and such when a Baratheon DOES sit on the iron throne! It's not like he's privy to the mendelian genetics that Ned was.
Ned sent him a letter explaining that Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella were not Robert's true children, so he is completely aware that a true Baratheon does not sit on the throne. That's what prompted him to launch his claim in the first place way back in Season 1 (along with Renly).
 

wetech

Senior member
Jul 16, 2002
871
6
81
So Stanis's "blood claim" to the throne is less than a generation old? Also, what the hell is his problem: why is he invading kings landing and such when a Baratheon DOES sit on the iron throne! It's not like he's privy to the mendelian genetics that Ned was.

Really, Stanis is more like Bravos's collection agent; proving that "the Iron Bank is, a temple. We all live in its shadow, and almost none of us know it. You can’t run from them. You can’t cheat them. You can’t sway them with excuses. If you owe them money, and you don’t want to crumble yourself, you pay it back."
Stanis finds out from Ned about Joffrey's parents, and sends a letter to the major lords of the realm stating as much to gain support. He believes (rightfully) that a Lanister is on the throne.


[Stannis and his council are writing a declaration]
Matthos Seaworth: And I declare on the honour of my House that my beloved brother Robert left-

Stannis Baratheon: He wasn't my beloved brother. I didn't love him. He didn't love me.

Davos Seaworth: A harmless courtesy, Your Grace.

Stannis Baratheon: A lie. Take it out.

Matthos Seaworth: That my brother Robert left no trueborn heirs, the boy Joffrey, the boy Tommen and the girl Myrcella being born of incest between Cersei Lannister and her brother Jaime Lannnister. By right of birth-
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,688
8
81
www.bing.com
ya the only people denying that Jamie is the father are the Lannisters.

The Tyrell's probably believe that Tommen is Jamie's, but kinda don't care, as they just need to be on the winning side, and Renly's death sorta left them up for grabs, and Tywin capitalized on that.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,727
411
126
So Stanis's "blood claim" to the throne is less than a generation old? Also, what the hell is his problem: why is he invading kings landing and such when a Baratheon DOES sit on the iron throne! It's not like he's privy to the mendelian genetics that Ned was.

Really, Stanis is more like Bravos's collection agent; proving that "the Iron Bank is, a temple. We all live in its shadow, and almost none of us know it. You can’t run from them. You can’t cheat them. You can’t sway them with excuses. If you owe them money, and you don’t want to crumble yourself, you pay it back."
Ned informed stanis of what was going on before he died
also its a bit diff in the books, as John Aryn (sp) and Stanis are looking into it from the start before John is killed

im not sure that's actually a spoiler or not as its old content but whatever
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,241
3,107
136
I like that we have inbetween characters like Stannis. Not quite as backwards ass evil a ruler as Joffry while not quite as sweet and benevolent as dany. That scene with his daughter was perfect. It's a stretch to say he loves her, but he still hardly treats her with the animosity that say Tywin treated Tyrion with.
 

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