Anubis
No Lifer
nah i doubt they put it that late into season 4. i bet it happens in the first 4 eps
nah i doubt they put it that late into season 4. i bet it happens in the first 4 eps
The main reason he kisses up and apologizes to Walder Frey is because he has an army of thousands that he needs back fighting for him. They all leave once Robb marries Jeyne/Talisa and they comprise a huge portion of his army. And of course that's further compounded by the Karstark's leaving once Robb takes Rickon's head.
That being said, I love the casting for Walder Frey. He comes off as the perfect crotchety, skeevy old man. Him rattling off his daughter's and granddaughter's names was just as I imagined it when I read it.
TheAdvocate
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Yeah, this is a really solid point. This type of thing happens quite a bit in battle, however, I don't think there was precedent for this type of outright murderous plot.
Also, they had done the bread and salt ceremony, which they didnt set up well for the non-readers. In the books, Robb thinks he is safe because the custom is once that is performed, no harm can be done to a guest. he thinks he is just going to have to endure a bunch of bitchiness from Walder Frey and have to make numerous apologies.
I dont think they delivered that well. And I was disappointed to see my wife (hasnt read the books) miss the Rains of Castamere cue. Went right over her head. So despite their best efforts to set that up, apparently it didnt work on everyone.
Having Jeyne/Talisia at the wedding was a really good change - a shock moment for even the book reader crowd. I gasped. It was so brutal and the timing caught me by surprise.
As I said earlier, I would have loved to see the Great Jon freak and go Mike Tyson/Berserker mode after Small Jon was beheaded - that would have made the whole thing even more insane and disturbing.
Anubis
No Lifer
TheAdvocate
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BTW, wasnt one of the plot point differences between Jeyne and Talisia, that (in the books) Jeyne, being from the Crag (Lannister loyalists), and her family might have been in on part/all of the plot that culminated in the Red Wedding? I remember reading some speculation that the Lannisters set the whole thing up by having Jeyne intentionally get knocked up by Robb, which they knew would piss Walder off and likely end the Stark/Frey alliance... That's what I remember anyhow.
The only hole in that theory is that they couldnt force Robb to marry Jeyne. However, they knew he was Ned's son, and would likely do the "right" thing.
The only hole in that theory is that they couldnt force Robb to marry Jeyne. However, they knew he was Ned's son, and would likely do the "right" thing.
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Emos
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Yeah those were some nuances that can easily fly over the heads of those who didn't read the books. Killing a guest after the bread and salt ceremony is one of the biggest taboos in all of Westeros, the Frey House will see a perilous decline in social standing after breaking that taboo (even if it was secretly instigated by House Lannister).
Same with the Rains of Castamere, it sent a yellow line up my spine the moment they locked the doors and started playing the song.
I think it was something about them brewing a potion billed as a fertility potion that in fact was moon tea. Something about them making sure she didn't have any children. When she was pardoned they were worried about a heir and I think they forbade her from marrying for 2 years.
And come on...anyone who read the books must have realized it was going to end badly for her once she showed up to the wedding. Especially after whole I'm pregnant scene. There was tons of foreshadowing. Too much in fact. Maybe they needed it for the non book crowd though.
And come on...anyone who read the books must have realized it was going to end badly for her once she showed up to the wedding. Especially after whole I'm pregnant scene. There was tons of foreshadowing. Too much in fact. Maybe they needed it for the non book crowd though.
Those are points that, while nice to know, aren't crucial. So they're bonus tidbits that the book readers will recognize but aren't integral for non-readers to know. Otherwise, you'd have to have an entire scene earlier where they play the Rains of Castamere and explain that its a song about how Tywin Lannister erradicated House Reyne after they rebelled against the Lannisters. A lot of setup for just a small payoff.
edit VVVV: Yeah she does. And the wiki says Tyrion and Tywin both whistle the tune at various times and Thoros sings a couple lines. So I guess perceptive enough watchers would have realized it was the same song.
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Anubis
No Lifer
she did, there was an entire scene last ep of her explaining it to Marjorie when sansa got married
This is how I'm thinking it will go down.
Joff's wedding within the first three episodes. Tyrion gets to spend his time in the dungeon. Springs free in episode 9.
MikeyLSU
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TheAdvocate
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Yep, I agree. Would follow their typical season story arc quite well.
randomrougue said:
I was fairly certain it would not end well for her, but I didnt really expect things to kick off with one of the Freys/Dreadfort men casually walking up to her and serial killer style eviscerating her belly like he was cutting a roast for dinner. I gasped out loud. It was shocking in its brutality.
Also, FWIW, Great Jon was captured, not killed, in the books. There was a small chance in my mind that Talisia might not be killed. Though not as much as if she had followed the Jeyne Westerling storyline more closely.
Emos
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Yeah that was a deviation from the book that practically made me sit up in bed and cry "HOLY SHIT!!!!!1!" I figured that she would be killed off but it was in your face shocking.
Emos
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Even Hitler was traumatized by the Red Wedding (yes another Downfall parody):
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=QKqF8lg_M7A&desktop_uri=/watch?v=QKqF8lg_M7A
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=QKqF8lg_M7A&desktop_uri=/watch?v=QKqF8lg_M7A
crashtestdummy
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I haven't seen the season yet (don't have HBO), but I'm thinking that might have been a change made in the series. He was never planning on making a run at Casterly Rock in the books. He was looking to retake Moat Cailin and the north. Not that it matters too much in either direction, given the end result.
blankslate
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- Jun 16, 2008
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Yeah, as a result of the Frey's flouting of an age old tradition/rite now no one really can feel safe staying at a stranger's keep anymore as they could in the past. It really messes with the old system and the Frey's have set themselves up for trouble.
I thought they set up the "Rains of Castamere" cue in episode 8 where Cersei tells the story to Margaery
Regs
Lifer
- Aug 9, 2002
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I actually like his character more than any other, except for maybe the father, Tywin, and Sandor, the giant who is afraid of fire. The other actors I'm curious of finding out how they turn out is Sansa, Jamie Lannister, and Cersi Lannister but they grow more irrelevant to the story each passing episode. Obviously the Lannisters are growing tired of their fathers control, so I imagine that is where next season will go over.
Deanerys is hell bent on taking back her throne, and the current theme in this series is, if you want it that badly you'll just end up dead. So I'm actually not trying to get too attached to her now because even without reading the book, I know how it will turn out. You can't have a single conquering victor because that would be too easy at this point.
As for Jon Snow - man, that guy seems to have to leech off everyone to survive. He had no independence up until now, which actually excites me a little. Maybe his character will grow next season, or end up dead like the rest of the heroes. I imagine that is what
the feast of crows book is all about.
It's a perfect series for HBO as when inevitably the actors start asking for more money, you can just kill them off like Soap Operas.
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George's inspiration for the Red Wedding, was the Black Dinner. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Douglas#Murder_of_the_Douglas_chiefs_at_Edinburgh_Castle
I suppose there's no harm in deviating more from the books. If they ask for more money they're out.
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