Game Design (Really a useless career?)

[ultimatebob]

Game design is kinda like going to school expecting to come out a NBA player or something. Sure it happens for a very small set of people, but its really up to you to make it work. Its not enough to be good. You have to have drive. If you love it, give it a shot. However understand that it has a very high chance of being a hobby degree. That you will effectively be able to check the "has college degree" box. Make sure your school is accredited. A lot of art/game schools don't really bother.

Worked for Dynamix and Midway Games for ~15 years, So have been down that road. Animator though.

Ooh... Dynamix! Those guys made A10 Tank Killer, one of my favorite games growing up!

I briefly worked for MPath Interactive, the mplayer.com gaming service guys. We did a lot of multiplayer games, and I did the QA testing for them. One thing that I missed from that gig was all of the free t-shirts.

 

[preslove]

You don't want to get a specialty undergraduate degree in anything. It limits your job waaaaaaaaayyyyy too much. Get a CS or other tech degree with lots of programming focus and get a minor or just take electives in whatever aspect of game design you're interested in.

If you don't get a game design codemonkey job, you'll still be employable for codemonkey jobs in other industries.

 

[Midwayman]

Ooh... Dynamix! Those guys made A10 Tank Killer, one of my favorite games growing up!

I briefly worked for MPath Interactive, the mplayer.com gaming service guys. We did a lot of multiplayer games, and I did the QA testing for them. One thing that I missed from that gig was all of the free t-shirts.

A-10 was a little before my time there, but I did work on the follow up- Silent Thunder.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

You don't want to get a specialty undergraduate degree in anything. It limits your job waaaaaaaaayyyyy to much. Get a CS or other tech degree with lots of programming focus and get a minor or just take electives in whatever aspect of game design you're interested in.

If you don't get a game design codemonkey job, you'll still be employable for codemonkey jobs in other industries.

There's always room for code monkeys.

And if you're passionate about it, well, 40 hours a week monkeying with router firmware leaves plenty of time for writing games in your spare time. Or, hell, even when it's slow at work.

 

[quina123]

this is really good, gave me time to think about this.
question: what does "CS" stand for?
@dave_the_nerd why not Full Sail University, you say its a scam? More info please.
I actually went (temp) to one college before right after I graduated high school. ITT Technical Institute. was going there for computer programming. Something I wasn't interested in at all. I dropped out after the first semester.

things like that never end good. And... you end up with an unwanted loan.

I quote again.

rejected

 

[Red Squirrel]

Consider how many software dev companies are in your area, let alone game companies. Probably rare odds of actually getting into one let alone a big well known one. That said if you want to learn game design do it as a hobby and make a game as a hobby then you may get lucky and be able to cash out on it. Look at Flappy Bird it was a 1 night stand that turned into a million dollar operation. The guy is set for life now (if he was smart with his money).

 

[FleshLight]

this is really good, gave me time to think about this.
question: what does "CS" stand for?
@dave_the_nerd why not Full Sail University, you say its a scam? More info please.
I actually went (temp) to one college before right after I graduated high school. ITT Technical Institute. was going there for computer programming. Something I wasn't interested in at all. I dropped out after the first semester.



I quote again.

rejected

Why not go to Stanford, Cal Tech, or MIT for Computer Science? You'll be almost guaranteed any programming job at a game company

 

[ultimatebob]

Why not go to Stanford, Cal Tech, or MIT for Computer Science? You'll be almost guaranteed any programming job at a game company

Unless the OP has at least three of the following criteria, they stand no chance in getting in any of those top tier schools:

1) Has a perfect SAT score
2) Has a 4.0 (or higher) GPA
3) Has a wealthy relative with political connections
4) Is in a rare minority class, like a Latino Woman

Geez... why don't you try to get him into Yale or Oxford while you're at it.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Why not go to Stanford, Cal Tech, or MIT for Computer Science? You'll be almost guaranteed any programming job at a game company

Not if you don't pass the phone interview.

Lots of people come into the phone interview for a game programming job extremely confident only to fail to answer the most basic questions about C++ or be unable to write simple algorithms in pseudocode. Many of them are from big name universities.

So long as you can secure a phone interview, a strong foundation in C++, algorithms, and data structures can go a long way.

I'm currently interning at a small indie company as a designer/programmer, and I'm about to graduate with a 2 year degree in Computer Simulation and Game Development. At first I ate the load of shit the director of the program fed everyone, but when I came to my senses it was too late to quit. I feel like my biggest setback is the fact it's a 2 year degree, though. The majority of job listings require a bachelor's, and I've already been denied phone interviews because of it.

If I could get a phone interview, I think I could nail it. But that's because my program was heavily based on C++ and I took a very strong liking to it.

 

[quina123]

Not if you don't pass the phone interview.

Lots of people come into the phone interview for a game programming job extremely confident only to fail to answer the most basic questions about C++ or be unable to write simple algorithms in pseudocode. Many of them are from big name universities.

So long as you can secure a phone interview, a strong foundation in C++, algorithms, and data structures can go a long way.

I'm currently interning at a small indie company as a designer/programmer, and I'm about to graduate with a 2 year degree in Computer Simulation and Game Development. At first I ate the load of shit the director of the program fed everyone, but when I came to my senses it was too late to quit. I feel like my biggest setback is the fact it's a 2 year degree, though. The majority of job listings require a bachelor's, and I've already been denied phone interviews because of it.

If I could get a phone interview, I think I could nail it. But that's because my program was heavily based on C++ and I took a very strong liking to it.

Way to gloat... makes it the decision a whole lot better.
sorry, I'm mad at something else. (should've have said that)

okay so tell me this, way on earth would they have just one course named game design that you'll take fo like 3 years, and earn a degree, only to find out that alone is not enough? They don't tell you that?!

If not, this is what I call: EXTRA. Doing all that extra!

 

[Aikouka]

I guess my first question is... how do you define "Game Design"? I see a lot of people talking about programming, but to me, Game Design is more about defining the rules and the parameters that make up the game. For example, Ghostcrawler (Greg Street) was the lead systems designer for Blizzard, and his work was described as...

"Systems design specifically is everything that is not level, story, quest, PvP or encounter design. My team handles everything from mechanics to items to trade skills to achievements to UI design."

Now, he doesn't program or artistically create any of these things mentioned above, but designs them.

So, what is it that you want to do? Do you want to program games? Do you want to design games? Honestly, you might be better off just going for a normal degree (as people have mentioned) and work on a game in your spare time. Places like Fullsail do have you work on actual projects during your tenure, but you still end up with a very specific degree.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Going for a computer science degree means you likely will be able to find decent paying programming job some place, maybe some day you could use that to move to a position in gaming or starting your own gaming company. Going for an art or design based major, your degree will be not help you get most other jobs, it will just make you more employable as an artist or designer.

there are like 100 million computer programmer jobs in the world, there are like 1000 game designer jobs in the world.

Being a designer is more attractive than a programmer to many people.

So, low quantity of jobs, high quantity of people = very very competitive market for low pay unless you are one of the best in the world. Your first priority of a career should be that you earn enough cash to support yourself.

 

[Imp]

Going for a computer science degree means you likely will be able to find decent paying programming job some place, maybe some day you could use that to move to a position in gaming or starting your own gaming company. Going for an art or design based major, your degree will be not help you get most other jobs, it will just make you more employable as an artist or designer.

there are like 100 million computer programmer jobs in the world, there are like 1000 game designer jobs in the world.

Being a designer is more attractive than a programmer to many people.

So, low quantity of jobs, high quantity of people = very very competitive market for low pay unless you are one of the best in the world. Your first priority of a career should be that you earn enough cash to support yourself.

Thank goodness for 2.6 billion Indians and Chinese...

 

[BurnItDwn]

Thank goodness for 2.6 billion Indians and Chinese...

That is why wages have not gone up since the 90s.

I have friends who worked for AT&T in the 80s and 90s and made 6 figures as architects, programmers, and analysts.

These same people mostly make like 10-30K more than me, but, they have confirmed, its not more than in the 80s

 

[Obsy]

I actually went (temp) to one college before right after I graduated high school. ITT Technical Institute. was going there for computer programming. Something I wasn't interested in at all. I dropped out after the first semester.

Have you tried Unity game development/design? If not then you should, and try to find a local Unity/game-design/game-programming meet up. I know people who swore they would never code, and that's okay because it's not required in Unity. But once they got around to C# coding in Unity, they started to like it--your code has a much more tangible effect than starting from the ground up in a CS program where you just output text to the screen.

 

[quina123]

I guess my first question is... how do you define "Game Design"?

Good question! I've defined game deign as creating the environments and the actual world of the game along with character models, animations and such. Now that I think about it, is this aspect called Game Art? And should I go for that?

maybe some day you could use that to move to a position in gaming or starting your own gaming company.

That's exactly what my goal was to do. Right there.

Have you tried Unity game development/design? If not then you should, and try to find a local Unity/game-design/game-programming meet up. I know people who swore they would never code, and that's okay because it's not required in Unity. But once they got around to C# coding in Unity, they started to like it--your code has a much more tangible effect than starting from the ground up in a CS program where you just output text to the screen.

I've used Unity before, but never went for game development/design for Unity.
Is scripting the same as coding? because I do that too.
(though I don't use Java script).
Coding is required in Unity? Really? What games have been made with Unity that re popular? Just wondering...

 

[Obsy]

I've used Unity before, but never went for game development/design for Unity.
Is scripting the same as coding? because I do that too.
(though I don't use Java script).
Coding is required in Unity? Really? What games have been made with Unity that re popular? Just wondering...

You're not required to code in Unity--you probably misread that part of my post. But the ideas behind C# scripting in Unity are very similar to some concepts you'll find in elementary CS classes.

Off the top of my head, I know Hearthstone, Monument Valley, and Kerbal Space Program were made with Unity.

 

[ultimatebob]

That's exactly what my goal was to do. Right there.

Yeah, and I'd like to become a big shot Angel investor and help to fund the next Facebook or Google. I'll get right on that as soon as I win Powerball

Did you even bother to sign up for a free game development course yet, or are you just dreaming?

 

[quina123]

Yeah, and I'd like to become a big shot Angel investor and help to fund the next Facebook or Google. I'll get right on that as soon as I win Powerball

Did you even bother to sign up for a free game development course yet, or are you just dreaming?

Sign up? Dreaming?
Who's dreaming? I'm trying to get all the info I need before I make that big decision.
anyways, I'm not making a decision right now. I still got a lot of things to get situated before then.
But now I'll know what do to do and what to go for when the time is ready.

 

[Midwayman]

Good question! I've defined game deign as creating the environments and the actual world of the game along with character models, animations and such. Now that I think about it, is this aspect called Game Art? And should I go for that?

Well there are two specialties of modelers- Character and Environmental. Generally at a large company you will only do one. Smaller companies you are more a generalist. Animation is an entire other specialty unless you are at a very very small company. Keyframe and motion capture are the two main types, though you should be familar with both.

That's if you want to *make* the actual art in game. There are also concept artists (who are also sometimes also the modelers) Who design the look of the levels/characters. Usually one per team or even multiple teams. They work with the game designers who give them a rough map showing layout or functional aspects of a character. (Its a demon who has crab claws and shoots fireballs out his ass. Draw me one)

The programming everyone is talking about is the easiest way into games by far. If you know your 3d engines etc well its certainly possible. However you're not really involved in the creative side of things. You implement the systems the game designers come up with. You create the hooks for the art assets to hang on. I mean programming can be creative in its own right, but probably not in the way most people think of making a game.

Of course the smaller the company, the more roles you take.

We had people who's entire job was to make different heads for characters for customization for example.

 

[ThatBuzzkiller]

I'm with the others here recommending for a technical degree ...

Your best is to get a CS degree or something similar then get a related job in game development to build your portfolio. After that you can try to apply for a game design position ...

A game design degree is almost as useless as an art degree from the perspective of a game developer employer ...

Also, don't forget to be proficient in C++ since it's almost exclusively used for AAA game development ...

 

[Midwayman]

A game design degree is almost as useless as an art degree from the perspective of a game developer employer ...

I wouldn't say that at all in terms of applying for game jobs. A good portfolio was certainly the primary factor in hiring, but we did look at where and what people graduated in. One person I know got hired almost entirely on the strength of having a masters in art. Of course that's mostly for your first job. Like most jobs experience trumps school quickly.

 

[MrPickins]

Full Sail? No. Just... no. Those "Game Design" degrees are a scam.

Go somewhere reputable. A nice state school, maybe that will let you transfer credits from a community college. You'll save a lot of money that way.

You'll probably have to major in something boring, like art with a minor in computer science, or visa versa. Any time you have a project to do, try to combine the two interests. Computer graphics is kind of its own separate discipline, but not all universities will have a separate program for it. (It may be listed as a "concentration" or something, but you might just have to invent your own major - depends on how stodgy the department is.)

Also, take every math class you can.

Talk to a university advisor, and ask if there are any students or former students* you can contact for their impressions of the program, job placement, etc.

*(This is something that for-profits will actively discourage you from doing. Because they have something to hide.)

I don't work in game design, but I do work in software development, and I can reassure you that we actively recruit our (paid) interns from the larger state schools that we have an ongoing relationship with, not the for-profit degree mills.

But how else will you learn how to tighten up the graphics on level 3?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRWvfMLl4ho

 

[ultimatebob]

Sign up? Dreaming?
Who's dreaming? I'm trying to get all the info I need before I make that big decision.
anyways, I'm not making a decision right now. I still got a lot of things to get situated before then.
But now I'll know what do to do and what to go for when the time is ready.

I'm giving you a hard time because it doesn't seem like you're trying too hard so far. People on this forum tend to do a better job on acting on our advice.

For example, someone here recently asked for advice on starting a startup. I recommended a Startup podcast, and they watched it.

Someone else asked for advice on how to get started in programming. I recommended a Coursera development course, and they signed up for it.

You asked for advice on how to get into game design, and I recommended a Coursera game design course. No response. Here, I'll do one better and show you a course list:

https://www.coursera.org/courses?query=game design

Most of those courses are free, so the only have you have to lose is time. Are you going to sign up for one, or are you just going to keep posting about how you want to be this big shot game developer someday?

 

[l0cke]

My university offers a game design degree. However, it's not a BS, it's a "Bachelor of Innovation™" degree (BI™). I know a few people who have gone through the program and are now graduated with this degree.

Let me tell you, it's almost worthless. Out of 6 people I know, one of them has a career job - not in game design, just as a normal programmer. Yes, you might learn a lot, however there's no standards for game design degrees, unlike computer science etc. Some schools have well-known game design programs, like Digipen and Denius-Sams @ UT Austin (which is only a 9-month program).

What really seems to matter is a solid portfolio with programming background. Making games is the real way to show companies what you know, and you'll learn a ton along the way. Maybe you could even get lucky and some tiny game or app you make could go big.

If you do go for a game design degree, keep making games while in school. It might seem odd that you are already doing something that you are paying money to learn how to do, but you really don't want to be in the position where you only have a few demos and a piece of paper to show for 4 years of school.