Game Day Thread: Iowa Caucuses

[Jaskalas]

Pete gaining quickly in NH...

I was thinking Pete was toast given his position in the polls. Now it seems Iowa has given him a chance.

 

[cirrrocco]

Wow, this thread really delivers. My guy or nothing equals Trump, fools.

It's not about my guy versus others
-We have a candidate who before the results were out, declared himself winner and the rest of the media went to town with this. This is extremely unfair.
-Then we had three days of fuckups to get results from just 1700 locations. 30 volunteers can do this in half a day and accurately. why does it take three days to get this info and to this minute there are still inaccuracies
-we had instances [as posted by county chair] of votes wrongly attributed to candidates even after the correct numbers were sent.

It's just a combination of these factors that lead to a conclusion of massive epic insider corruption and unfairness. Half the forum posters call out Russia while we see the corruption right here at a small state. We would have bombed a country if this happened to someone we didnt like.

and now the icing on the cake, at 97% of precincts reporting, Tom Perez comes out and asks for a recanvass. Just a lot of shady shit man.

 

[Maxima1]

The superdelegate system used in 2016 was established & remained unchanged since 1983, iirc. Not once has the convention failed to nominate the candidate with the most pledged delegates. It's a bullshit argument, as are all those claiming poor Bernie was oh-so cheated by the wicked DNC.

The superdelegates get counted to act like the candidate is inevitable, and of course it was to prevent nominations like Bernie -- they think he's McGovern 2.0!

Superdelegates Might Not Save Hillary Clinton

If you look at a Democratic delegate tracker like this one from The New York Times, you’ll find that Hillary Clinton has a massive 394-44 delegate lead over Ber…

fivethirtyeight.com

Clinton leads 362-8 among superdelegates, who are Democratic elected officials and other party insiders allowed to support whichever candidate they like.

If you’re a Sanders supporter, you might think this seems profoundly unfair. And you’d be right: It’s profoundly unfair. Superdelegates were created in part to give Democratic party elites the opportunity to put their finger on the scale and prevent nominations like those of George McGovern in 1972 or Jimmy Carter in 1976, which displeased party insiders.

So the knowledge that the outcome was preordained suppressed only Sanders' turnout? Why wouldn't it suppress both?

Why wouldn't we think it would be like getting momentum after doing good in a state? This is just disingenuous.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Pete gaining quickly in NH...

I was thinking Pete was toast given his position in the polls. Now it seems Iowa has given him a chance.

Its almost like he gained momentum by being blessed off by the Iowa superdelegates. Curious.

 

[fskimospy]

It's not about my guy versus others
-We have a candidate who before the results were out, declared himself winner and the rest of the media went to town with this. This is extremely unfair.
-Then we had three days of fuckups to get results from just 1700 locations. 30 volunteers can do this in half a day and accurately. why does it take three days to get this info and to this minute there are still inaccuracies
-we had instances [as posted by county chair] of votes wrongly attributed to candidates even after the correct numbers were sent.

It's just a combination of these factors that lead to a conclusion of massive epic insider corruption and unfairness. Half the forum posters call out Russia while we see the corruption right here at a small state. We would have bombed a country if this happened to someone we didnt like.

and now the icing on the cake, at 97% of precincts reporting, Tom Perez comes out and asks for a recanvass. Just a lot of shady shit man.

There is literally zero evidence of any corruption here. Zero.

 

[Jhhnn]

LMAO. Fuck off.

Your contention that 2016 participation was depressed relative to 2008 after the press declared Hillary the presumptive winner is demonstrably false, at least for California. Millions more voted in 2016.

2008 California Democratic presidential primary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2016 California Democratic presidential primary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

While turnout was down in NJ, Bernie would have had to nearly double his vote total to win over Clinton.

The only people making your argument are just desperate to attribute Bernie's loss to skullduggery rather than just losing, which is what happened.

 

[Blackjack200]

There is literally zero evidence of any corruption here. Zero.

Zero

 

[Maxima1]

It's funny how the superdelegates coming out early for Clinton in 2008 didn't stop Obama.

Obama had rockstar status, though. It was so weird how he could just say, "Hope & Change", with the people going gaga over it.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Obama had rockstar status, though. It was so weird how he could just say, "Hope & Change", with the people going gaga over it.

He formed a cult of personality as well, just worked out that he wasn't a raving lunatic, and ended up an actual good president (opinions regarding specific policies notwithstanding).

 

[ewdotson]

Pete gaining quickly in NH...

I was thinking Pete was toast given his position in the polls. Now it seems Iowa has given him a chance.

It's going to be very interesting to see how he does in Nevada and SC.

 

[Bitek]

So you admit, Bernie lost because he wasn't a strong enough candidate?

When comparing to Hillary, that's not even a high bar to clear.

Even if Bernie just edges out a "win" in Iowa, just barely, maybe beating a young, broke, gay, small town mayor no one heard of a year ago isn't very confidence inspiring either.

Bernie's had 4 years with a high national profile, a Senate seat, and a well funded national political apparatus to work with and he maybe scrapes out a win?

No wonder his supporters are inventing conspiracy theories to cover up his poor performance in IA.

 

[Bitek]

It's going to be very interesting to see how he does in Nevada and SC.

He's got to get brown people to vote for him.
To be fair, Bernie hasn't been much better here either.

Biden ain't dead yet.

 

[Maxima1]

When comparing to Hillary, that's not even a high bar to clear.

Hillary had incumbent-like status. If Bernie wins nom for 2020, that goes a ways to showing that theory. There's a reason why there's argument over a national vs. state-by-state primary.

Even if Bernie just edges out a "win" in Iowa, just barely, maybe beating a young, broke, gay, small town mayor no one heard of a year ago isn't very confidence inspiring either.

Bernie's had 4 years with a high national profile, a Senate seat, and a well funded national political apparatus to work with and he maybe scrapes out a win?

No wonder his supporters are inventing conspiracy theories to cover up his poor performance in IA.

Bernie still has the best chance at the nomination currently. If he gets it, he took out how many? I lost count.

 

[Bitek]

Hillary had incumbent-like status. If Bernie wins nom for 2020, that goes a ways to showing that theory. There's a reason why there's argument over a national vs. state-by-state primary.



Bernie still has the best chance at the nomination currently. If he gets it, he took out how many? I lost count.

All I've seen are own goals. Sooo many of them.

 

[cirrrocco]

There is literally zero evidence of any corruption here. Zero.

That's your opinion. I have mine.

What happened is seriously mind boggling. Any decent administrator could have organized time slots for the precincts and got the numbers in the same day. Instead we had massive bungling, half assed numbers coming out basically destroying the integrity of the election.

I am curious, what do you propose should happen to the management of the IDP? and the DNC. do you think anyone should be fired

How did a APP mainly developed by clinton supporters get approved by DNC [Corruption right there].
why are there so many clinton stalwarts still running around the top rung of the DNC. She is a failed pathetic candidate who could not energize the base. Podesta, Neera Tandon and other DNC chickenhawks are still in major positions of power in DNC. what can be the reason they are still there. Bundling? Cronyism? Where are all the regular folks that the DNC supposedly represents.

 

[fskimospy]

That's your opinion. I have mine.

What happened is seriously mind boggling. Any decent administrator could have organized time slots for the precincts and got the numbers in the same day. Instead we had massive bungling, half assed numbers coming out basically destroying the integrity of the election.

I am curious, what do you propose should happen to the management of the IDP? and the DNC. do you think anyone should be fired

I genuinely don't care about the IDP or the DNC or who runs either one. If they all get fired that's fine by me, but there's no evidence they have acted corruptly.

How did a APP mainly developed by clinton supporters get approved by DNC [Corruption right there].
why are there so many clinton stalwarts still running around the top rung of the DNC. She is a failed pathetic candidate who could not energize the base. Podesta, Neera Tandon and other DNC chickenhawks are still in major positions of power in DNC. what can be the reason they are still there. Bundling? Cronyism? Where are all the regular folks that the DNC supposedly represents.

I would say that screening the people who created your app based on who they supported in a primary four years ago as you are suggesting would be extremely corrupt. It doesn't matter who they supported in the past.

 

[cirrrocco]

I genuinely don't care about the IDP or the DNC or who runs either one. If they all get fired that's fine by me, but there's no evidence they have acted corruptly.



I would say that screening the people who created your app based on who they supported in a primary four years ago as you are suggesting would be extremely corrupt. It doesn't matter who they supported in the past.

So let's have kaspersky vet our voting machines.
let's have huawei build our 5G network and maintain military installation communications
let's have infosys build our military IT systems

Come on man, we have a company that was funded by Pete, staffed mostly by Hillary supporters and they built an app that was having 'quality control' issues. I can see no corruption at all.

 

[fskimospy]

So let's have kaspersky vet our voting machines.
let's have huawei build our 5G network and maintain military installation communications
let's have infosys build our military IT systems

Come on man, we have a company that was funded by Pete, staffed mostly by Hillary supporters and they built an app that was having 'quality control' issues. I can see no corruption at all.

I'm not sure what you're alleging, are you saying that the app makers purposefully made the app not work in order to confer some political advantage? That would be a super weird choice considering Butteigeig got very good news from Iowa and the results not being out there sooner has hurt him.

 

[Bitek]

So let's have kaspersky vet our voting machines.
let's have huawei build our 5G network and maintain military installation communications
let's have infosys build our military IT systems

Come on man, we have a company that was funded by Pete, staffed mostly by Hillary supporters and they built an app that was having 'quality control' issues. I can see no corruption at all.

And Hunter Biden was clearly working with cloudstrike and the Ukrainians to hide Hillary's emails about the child sacrifices and Obama's Kenyan Muslim voodoo gay sex parties.

You have an opinion.
He has a fact.

The fact is there is no evidence, at this time, suggesting a corrupt intent to rig the election, and results so far are explainable by gross incompetence, much of which is not new and on public display.

 

[hal2kilo]

It's not about my guy versus others
-We have a candidate who before the results were out, declared himself winner and the rest of the media went to town with this. This is extremely unfair.
-Then we had three days of fuckups to get results from just 1700 locations. 30 volunteers can do this in half a day and accurately. why does it take three days to get this info and to this minute there are still inaccuracies
-we had instances [as posted by county chair] of votes wrongly attributed to candidates even after the correct numbers were sent.

It's just a combination of these factors that lead to a conclusion of massive epic insider corruption and unfairness. Half the forum posters call out Russia while we see the corruption right here at a small state. We would have bombed a country if this happened to someone we didnt like.

and now the icing on the cake, at 97% of precincts reporting, Tom Perez comes out and asks for a recanvass. Just a lot of shady shit man.

Of course it's always necessarily corruption. Geez. I can see Trump gloating now.

 

[Maxima1]

That would be a super weird choice considering Butteigeig got very good news from Iowa and the results not being out there sooner has hurt him.

We still don't know who won. Bernie might be the actual winner. Basically a coin toss. If so, Pete has been running away with the "winning" narrative so far. Though, I don't indulge in the app conspiracies.

 

[HomerJS]

Obama had rockstar status, though. It was so weird how he could just say, "Hope & Change", with the people going gaga over it.

That may be but Obama was morally and intellectually grounded vs the raving maniac we have now.

So let's have kaspersky vet our voting machines.
let's have huawei build our 5G network and maintain military installation communications
let's have infosys build our military IT systems

Come on man, we have a company that was funded by Pete, staffed mostly by Hillary supporters and they built an app that was having 'quality control' issues. I can see no corruption at all.

Not quite right, Pete paid a company to provide a product. That ain't his fault

 

[UNCjigga]

So let's have kaspersky vet our voting machines.
let's have huawei build our 5G network and maintain military installation communications
let's have infosys build our military IT systems

Come on man, we have a company that was funded by Pete, staffed mostly by Hillary supporters and they built an app that was having 'quality control' issues. I can see no corruption at all.

At this point we have nothing to go on pointing to corruption vs. monumental incompetence. Yes, I find it curious that Perez asks for a recanvassing after it gets to near 99% precincts reporting and forgets to mention the DNC is already on the ground assisting the IDP. But that’s not corrupt, just a form of CYA. Recanvassing is merited if the goal is to have full confidence in the results.

But going back to the app—I don’t believe working with known, trusted Democrat-friendly developers with prior campaign/progressive cause experience is corrupt. However, given that the same company also built the app for Nevada’s caucuses (probably using similar code) I’d hope they open their source code for review. Can’t repeat the fuck up.

 

[Jaskalas]

You have an opinion.
He has a fact.

The truth is just like... an opinion, man!

 

[Bitek]

On the list of "people who got screwed in Iowa due to bullshit and have a complaint"..

.. Bernie and Pete ain't at the top of the list by a long shot.

I believe we just had a president impeached for a months long conspiracy to force a foreign country to help him cheat against Joe Biden and rig an election.

Furthermore, we had the IA senator, who was supposed to be an impartial juror for said impeached president vote to deny witnesses in the trial, meanwhile publicly musing how bad this would impact Biden in the election in her state.

But Bernie got done dirty right?

....
Then allow all the other D candidates (many who didn't even make it to this week) complain how using this super white hick state as gatekeeper hobbles their chances from the start

....

Let's not forget about minorites, don't have any meaningful representation in the first TWO states to vote, and the race is historically pretty much over by then.

Shit, most white people voted for Trump last time, and AAs who vote 90+% dem are forth in line.

....
Then allow an the people in IA who don't have 3hrs to waste complain how this stupid caucus doesn't give them a chance to vote fairly

...
Then, if there are even any Fs left to give, we can hear the complaints about "Hillary people" working on the goddamn app.

Bernie and Boots tied and get move on. May they please quit the petty bitching.