Game Day Thread: Iowa Caucuses

[ivwshane]

This thread perfectly encapsulates why our politics is where it is right now.

Americans aren’t smart enough to maintain a democracy.

They latch on to conspiracy theories with no critical thinking and reinforce their beliefs by finding some small corner of the internet that agrees with them.

It’s sad because I thought a lot of the posters on this board were above that and it turns out they were just waiting for the right conspiracy to latch on to.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I actually voted for Bernie as a protest to how the entire party fell behind Hillary the second she announced, I'm sure others did too. Do you have any real data to show Bernie lost solely because people guessed at how the super delegates would vote? Remembering, not a single on had cast a vote during the primaries.

Nope, but I now have data that one person voted for Bernie specifically because they pre-announced the winner, you literally proved my point, pre-announcement affects results.

So you admit, Bernie lost because he wasn't a strong enough candidate?

Again, I take no issue with Bernie losing because he was a weaker candidate, presented himself weaker, etc. The problem is, when you have what is essentially institutionalized electoral manipulation through pre-announcements of (perceived) winners, you're already bringing into question the validity of the choice of the people.

It's akin to doing a double-blind Q&A but telling the people in the study how previous people answered.

 

[Blackjack200]

So you admit, Bernie lost because he wasn't a strong enough candidate?

Yes, this is absolutely true. Sanders was not strong enough to defeat Clinton and the institutional bias of the party while Obama was. You think that's a good defense of the party?

 

[fskimospy]

You said "losing every poll" Trumpster.

Have you ever heard the line 'And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you'? You might want to think about how that could apply to your situation.

 

[Homerboy]

So you admit, Bernie lost because he wasn't a strong enough candidate?

Or, relatively speaking, the other candidates are stronger than Obama's competitors were.
You can't quantify or qualify such a thing, so why argue about it?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

This thread perfectly encapsulates why our politics is where it is right now.

Americans aren’t smart enough to maintain a democracy.

They latch on to conspiracy theories with no critical thinking and reinforce their beliefs by finding some small corner of the internet that agrees with them.

It’s sad because I thought a lot of the posters on this board were above that and it turns out they were just waiting for the right conspiracy to latch on to.

Nah many have become too selfish and want total victory.
Our Government wasn’t & isn’t designed for this.
Compromise is key in our Government. Too many are happy complaining that nothing gets done vs being happy they got 50-75% of what they wanted.

 

[ivwshane]

Or, relatively speaking, the other candidates are stronger than Obama's competitors were.
You can't quantify or qualify such a thing, so why argue about it?

Other than polling and votes cast, yeah I guess you can’t quantify it./eye roll

 

[Blackjack200]

Have you ever heard the line 'And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you'? You might want to think about how that could apply to your situation.

Nah, I don't take advice from Trumpsters. Bernie is winning. The only thing gazing into the abyss is your fetid brand of politics.

 

[fskimospy]

Nah, I don't take advice from Trumpsters. Bernie is winning. The only thing gazing into the abyss is your fetid brand of politics.

You're just acting like a child now. I sincerely hope you take a minute for some self reflection and ask yourself if you aren't acting a lot like the Trump supporters you presumably dislike.

 

[Blackjack200]

You're just acting like a child now. I sincerely hope you take a minute for some self reflection and ask yourself if you aren't acting a lot like the Trump supporters you presumably dislike.

No, I'm not acting like you. I am running out of patience for this conversation now though.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Compromise is key in our Government. Too many are happy complaining that nothing gets done vs being happy they got 50-75% of what they wanted.

Agreed, unfortunately a few individuals have found a way to profit on telling people that someone else is responsible for them not getting that remaining 25%, which should be the most important thing in their life.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Agreed, unfortunately a few individuals have found a way to profit on telling people that someone else is responsible for them not getting that remaining 25%, which should be the most important thing in their life.

Good summary

I haven’t done it often but occasionally I try to see if a fantasy compromise can be attained with mostly our conservative posters.
Like:
Let’s pretend the decision is up to us and we both need to agree. I’ll give you a boarder Wall what wil you give me.
Typical answer is you can raise taxes to pay for it.

That’s not a compromise, I got nothing of value. My goal isn’t to raise everyone’s taxes. Raising taxes to pay for a wall that I think will be expensive and ineffective isn’t a compromise.

 

[fskimospy]

No, I'm not acting like you. I am running out of patience for this conversation now though.

You just literally 'I know you are but what am I'-d someone saying you were acting childish.

lol.

 

[Blackjack200]

You just literally 'I know you are but what am I'-d someone saying you were acting childish.

lol.

Great.

 

[ivwshane]

Nah many have become too selfish and want total victory.
Our Government wasn’t & isn’t designed for this.
Compromise is key in our Government. Too many are happy complaining that nothing gets done vs being happy they got 50-75% of what they wanted.

It’s hard not to blame them though, they’ve watched the GOP for decades play hardball and seemingly get what they want and now they want that to. But the gop got what they did by breaking our democracy and government and they don’t seem to realize the negative consequences of that.

I agree with compromising but in order to have a compromise you have to have parties (not political parties) willing to compromise. Instead of arguing over bull shit purity tests the goal should be removing republicans, who have proven they have no interest in governing. Nothing else matters right now. We either take back the government or we lose it.

 

[fskimospy]

Great.

It's always interesting to see what people do when what they want to believe collides with reality. Let's just say the results with you weren't great, haha.

 

[Jhhnn]

So turnout wasn't down from 2008?



Who cares? Literally none of that addresses the argument.

You have not documented your statement that press projections depressed turnout the next day when Clinton soundly thumped Sanders to clinch a pledged delegate majority. Have at it.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Because there hasn't been enough doubt and suspicion up until now...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1225474852561342464

 

[Blackjack200]

You have not documented your statement that press projections depressed turnout the next day when Clinton soundly thumped Sanders to clinch a pledged delegate majority. Have at it.

LMAO. Fuck off.

 

[Jhhnn]

Because there hasn't been enough doubt and suspicion up until now...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1225474852561342464

Gawd. A Bernie bro conspiracy theory thread on twitter. Peachy. Actual news link-

DNC chair calls on Iowa Democratic Party to begin recanvass of caucus results

Democratic National Committee (DNC) Chairman Tom Perez on Thursday called for a recanvass in Iowa following chaos and delayed results during the state’s Democratic caucuses earlier this w…

thehill.com

There's no giant conspiracy, just a giant fuckup that nobody wanted. The attribution of malicious motives is deplorable.

 

[Zorba]

Nope, but I now have data that one person voted for Bernie specifically because they pre-announced the winner, you literally proved my point, pre-announcement affects results.

Again, I take no issue with Bernie losing because he was a weaker candidate, presented himself weaker, etc. The problem is, when you have what is essentially institutionalized electoral manipulation through pre-announcements of (perceived) winners, you're already bringing into question the validity of the choice of the people.

It's akin to doing a double-blind Q&A but telling the people in the study how previous people answered.

They did not preannounce anything. Hillary got a tton of endorsements and no one challenged her, except Bernie. No super delegates actually cast a vote, people assumed they would vote for Hillary if they had endorsed her. But there is/was no proof of that.

I do think the instant near universal endorsements discouraged other challengers like Warren, which is what upset me. I never bought into the super delegates histeria being push by the for proof media.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Gawd. A Bernie bro conspiracy theory thread on twitter. Peachy. Actual news link-

DNC chair calls on Iowa Democratic Party to begin recanvass of caucus results

Democratic National Committee (DNC) Chairman Tom Perez on Thursday called for a recanvass in Iowa following chaos and delayed results during the state’s Democratic caucuses earlier this w…

thehill.com

There's no giant conspiracy, just a giant fuckup that nobody wanted. The attribution of malicious motives is deplorable.

The NY Times live update feed is a conspiracy site?

I have to update my decoder ring...

 

[cirrrocco]

Nah many have become too selfish and want total victory.
Our Government wasn’t & isn’t designed for this.
Compromise is key in our Government. Too many are happy complaining that nothing gets done vs being happy they got 50-75% of what they wanted.

Compromise when every candidate being equal. I am ok with that and i would guess most people
In 2016, that was not the case with the deck stacked against Bernie. Bunch of lobbyists running the party who revelled in the HC foundation gravy train
2020, we still have Hillary supporters and corporatist democrats running the party. Their policies do not work and we need more people from the street running the party. Kick all those fuckheads out of the party

 

[cirrrocco]

The NY Times live update feed is a conspiracy site?

I have to update my decoder ring...

LOl. good one. some folks just argue for the sake of arguing. we have a great candidate to kick the shit out of trump and some democrats keep mollycoddlying the same policies and fuckheads that brought us trump.

 

[hal2kilo]

Wow, this thread really delivers. My guy or nothing equals Trump, fools.