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Gallup poll: Reagan greatest president ever

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How far from reality have you fallen?

George W. Bush, in 2000, ran as a 'compassionate' conservative who promised the biggest expansion in medicare this country has ever seen. There's nothing conservative about 'Medicare Part D' - let alone the far-right you'd like to paint him as.

Us conservatives hated George W. Bush for not being conservative. That is our exact problem with McCain. It's what I'm saying, there's nothing special about Reagan being a big-government Republican when that's the only thing the GOP has produced.

It's not a trick, it's exactly what they do. It's who they are.
Since the Republicans have not followed the Democrats in reserving enough votes to select the primary candidate of the machine's choice from amongst the front runners, the very large high population states like California and New York have a great deal of pull in selecting the Republican nominee, even though that nominee has little chance of earning those electoral votes. This isn't entirely bad, since very conservative candidates tend to be true gay bashing social conservatives, but it heavily handicaps against having a true conservative as a presidential candidate.
 
Under all previous Presidents, Red China was considered the Communist Horde and was barred from transfers of virtually all modern technology. Chinese weapons and Chinese manufacturing at this time were generally at 1950s level American technology at best. Look for instance at 1980s Chinese MBTs - they mostly still used manual turret rotation and cannon elevation! We also applied a great deal of pressure to other countries to enforce similar bans. Clinton removed almost all bans and barriers to technology transfers to China, even relocating the veto power from State to Ron Brown's Commerce Department. You may or may not recall Clinton's approval after the fact when Loral Space & Communications got caught in 1996 passing highly classified missile technology to Red China, which allowed Loral to benefit from cheap satellite launches but also transformed China's ICBM program overnight from a system which failed to even reach the stratosphere more than half the time (not an admirable platform for a nuclear deterrent!) to a modern Western-style system capable of 90%+ reliability AND capable of the pin-point inertial reckoning and split-second release accuracy necessary for stable satellite orbits - or for a nuclear re-entry vehicle to actually hit its target. Loral finally agreed to pay a $14 million dollar for this technology transfer, but its management was facing serious prison time before Clinton retroactively approved dropped the barrier. Clinton went on to drop almost all such barriers, even going so far as to approve the sale to Communist China of our cruise missile manufacturing line - a system at the time was so classified that ordinary American employees were not allowed in the building that housed it.

This very rapidly led to all Western nations dropping their transfer barriers, less their companies lose out to American companies in trading with China. Within a handful of years, Red China went from an international pariah to a country possessed of the highest technology available. Within a decade, the technology was so widely available that no company in Red China need go without the latest technology in their field. Clinton's actions and China's embrace of capitalism - and the Chinese' great work ethic and native intelligence - are the "secrets" of its explosive growth.

Coupled with the theft of nuclear secrets during Clinton's tenure - remember making all the badges the same at nuclear facilities, so that you could not tell at a glance a person's clearance but supposedly lower clearance people felt better about themselves? - Red China also went from a country armed with 60s nuclear technology to a country possessing cutting edge nuclear weapons, including some (like the neutron bomb) that we developed but never fielded! Clinton literally made Red China a world power - soon to be THE world power. China's purchase of Clinton will surely go down in history as the best investment in recorded history. Mexico wishes it had done so well with Bush!

If Clinton was so evil, how come GOP impeached him over a blowjob and not this? I guess all these problems didn't even rise to the level of importance of covering up oral sex as, so not much to see here.
 
If Clinton was so evil, how come GOP impeached him over a blowjob and not this? I guess all these problems didn't even rise to the level of importance of covering up oral sex as, so not much to see here.

Well Ron Brown was under investigation until he died in a mysterious plane crash in 1996... :hmm:
 
3 years after he left office, when his actual performance as president was still fresh in the publics mind, Reagan was less popular than Carter.

When Reagan was (much) less popular than Carter


His popularity today is mostly based on myth not reality.

Well duh, 3 years after he left office also happened to be when the US hit the depth of the big recession. That surely won't skew anything 🙄

Now that we've had some time to digest everything that was done through the lens of history we start getting an understanding of Reagan's greatness. W and Obummer can't get anything done -- with a congress held solidly by their own party. Reagan pushed everything through by communicating with the people directly, angering the media in the process because it started to become clear they were no longer needed as a filter.
 
LOL most Americans also thought that there were WMDs in Iraq...

Ya... Americans like President Clinton, Madeline Albright, Sandy Berger, Nancy Peloci, Bob Graham, Carl Levin, Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Tom Daschle, Henry Waxman, Jay Rockefeller, Hillary Clinton, etc, etc. :sneaky:
 
Well duh, 3 years after he left office also happened to be when the US hit the depth of the big recession. That surely won't skew anything 🙄
That and the memory of how things actually were when he was President unlike the myth the Wingers are putting out these days to portray him as someone he really wasn't.
 
That and the memory of how things actually were when he was President unlike the myth the Wingers are putting out these days to portray him as someone he really wasn't.

Oh, wait. So your logic is that he was popular in the last few years of his presidency, and for two years following ("when the memory was fresh"), but then 3 years after, the memory was not fresh anymore, and he wasn't popular, and then years after that he became popular again. Yeah, that sounds logical. Or, perhaps, it makes more sense that he was very popular in his second term, but then became less popular when the big recession hit and his (former) VP was the president. Then over the years people have had time to reflect on his presidency.
 
WTF is up with idiots putting Obummer and W on that list??? Those two should get a fine for being anywhere even remotely close to that list.

The two biggies in the country basically all going 'online' now so you have 'new politicals' much like why 'new money' got ignored in the past and still today.

Still this said, I am all for opening up all government voting online. You'll have to do it by the way they do online banking, money is our most sacred creature today and it works perfectly.

Electoral college gets booted.
 
And yet the soviet union lasted more than another decade after that. If Reagan had not been there, and instead an idiot like Mondale had come along, it would have been several decades instead of a decade.



He did what needed to be done and he provided what the country needed. He helped restore confidence and pride.

Not really. Afghanistan crushed the USSR economy far worse than we realized at the time.

Oh, as a point of history, if you are going to credit the fall of the USSR to an individual, you'll have to give equal time to Pope John Paul II, but everyone knew that, right?

As far as "pride", that's just smoke blown up our ass. The cartoon posted earlier was unfortunately a good description of what we ignored because Ron jacked off our ego.
 
Gorbachev was the person responsible for ending the Soviet Union. Reagan was just there at the right place at the right time.
 
Playing Prez was the best role he ever had. Maybe he should get an Oscar, posthumously. That's what the poll says, anyway.

Remember how he and Greenspan "saved" SS? Or how he campaigned against the then $1T debt, and then tripled it? How he couldn't recall a thing about Iran-Contra?

Acting! And his worshippers thought he was for real...
 
Playing Prez was the best role he ever had. Maybe he should get an Oscar, posthumously. That's what the poll says, anyway.

Remember how he and Greenspan "saved" SS? Or how he campaigned against the then $1T debt, and then tripled it? How he couldn't recall a thing about Iran-Contra?

Acting! And his worshippers thought he was for real...

To be fair we're seeing some of that with Obama and his administration. I could make a list of things he's done that suck and there would be apologists for it. It's the nature of partisans.
 
And yet the soviet union lasted more than another decade after that. If Reagan had not been there, and instead an idiot like Mondale had come along, it would have been several decades instead of a decade.

He did what needed to be done and he provided what the country needed. He helped restore confidence and pride.

And where, exactly, did this analysis come from? Please show us the white paper.
 
To be fair we're seeing some of that with Obama and his administration. I could make a list of things he's done that suck and there would be apologists for it. It's the nature of partisans.

There's nothing comparable, but you are fulfilling your own statement, being an apologist.
 
Not really. Afghanistan crushed the USSR economy far worse than we realized at the time.

Oh, as a point of history, if you are going to credit the fall of the USSR to an individual, you'll have to give equal time to Pope John Paul II, but everyone knew that, right?

As far as "pride", that's just smoke blown up our ass. The cartoon posted earlier was unfortunately a good description of what we ignored because Ron jacked off our ego.

This post is much better - and which president gets the 'credit' for the USSR going into Afghanistan? Carter, it turns out. I quote it because I'm not endorsing it as good.

It's one of those amoral 'it gives us power' type policies that kills a lot of people to get what we want - and has really screwed Afghanistan, taking a better government from them.
 
I guess they don't teach that much about Teddy Roosevelt then(below Reagan and Washington!?!?). That man was awesome.
 
I guess there is a little glimmer of hope for the country yet. According to the gallup poll Reagan was the best president ever.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/146183/Americans-Say-Reagan-Greatest-President.aspx

WTF is up with idiots putting Obummer and W on that list??? Those two should get a fine for being anywhere even remotely close to that list.

Obviously there's a recency effect, with 4 of the top 10 being recent (1980 to present) presidents, but Obummer and W... best presidents ever!? By what conceivable measure could you put either one of them in that category?

My top 5 list:

  1. Lincoln
  2. Washington
  3. Roosevelt (Teddy, not FD)
  4. Reagan
  5. Thomas Jefferson

There are a few black people in Philadelphia, Mississippi that might disagree with you.
 
It was crumbling from within because of the pressure put on them by Reagan. They might have ultimately still crumbled without Reagan, but it might have taken another decade or two.

Pure bullshit.

I took a couple of college Economics classes in 1975 from a Russian defector who had worked at Gosplan, the Soviet Central Planning Agency. He thought the Soviet Union would last shorter than 10 years more because the imbalances that the economy was experiencing were swinging increasingly wide. The various state production factories were producing to a plan that didn't, and couldn't match what was needed in a modern economy. The Planning Agency didn't have the tools to plan a (relatively) modern economy.

My educated guess would be that Reagan nearly bankrupting the US with the huge, expensive, military buildup hastened the end of the Soviet Union by no more than 3-5 years.

Worth it? Not in my mind.
 
Pure bullshit.

I took a couple of college Economics classes in 1975 from a Russian defector who had worked at Gosplan, the Soviet Central Planning Agency. He thought the Soviet Union would last shorter than 10 years more because the imbalances that the economy was experiencing were swinging increasingly wide. The various state production factories were producing to a plan that didn't, and couldn't match what was needed in a modern economy. The Planning Agency didn't have the tools to plan a (relatively) modern economy.

My educated guess would be that Reagan nearly bankrupting the US with the huge, expensive, military buildup hastened the end of the Soviet Union by no more than 3-5 years.

Worth it? Not in my mind.

I'm not convinced the US military spending had any effect on the USSR's end. It's classic spin - take the corrupt policy, military spending, and look for a good excuse.

It's like a wife who buys expensive clothes and tells her husband her motive is she cares enough about him to look good for him.
 
I took a couple of college Economics classes in 1975 from a Russian defector who had worked at Gosplan, the Soviet Central Planning Agency. He thought the Soviet Union would last shorter than 10 years more because the imbalances that the economy was experiencing were swinging increasingly wide. The various state production factories were producing to a plan that didn't, and couldn't match what was needed in a modern economy. The Planning Agency didn't have the tools to plan a (relatively) modern economy.

My educated guess would be that Reagan nearly bankrupting the US with the huge, expensive, military buildup hastened the end of the Soviet Union by no more than 3-5 years.

Worth it? Not in my mind.

Your 'educated guess' is just as worthless as mine and everyone else's. Since we can't go back in time and try different scenarios, we'll never know for certain.

Reagan nearly bankrupting the US with the huge, expensive, military buildup

When will you ignorant fools ever understand that the president does not control spending levels? The president can ask for whatever he wants, but congress controls the purse. Democrats held congress during Reagan's presidency, if you want to blame someone for deficit spending, blame them.
 
I don't see how you can possible hold the position that Clinton did something evil by opening up trade with China. Cutting people off is not a good way to lead them towards reform. Hell, the GOP was in charge of Congress when these agreements passed if I recall correctly, and even if not the GOP would have supported free trade with China since it opened American business to 1 billion new customers.

I wouldn't be so quick to bash China werepossum. They are the country that have basically funded America's fiscal irresponsibility.

China has modernized quickly because they place their economic priorities in places that will guarantee future economic growth. They graduate around 100,000 engineers a YEAR, which is why their technology is blazing ahead. In fact the main problem they face now is they are too educated. Hell, I wish our country had that problem.
 
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Oh, as a point of history, if you are going to credit the fall of the USSR to an individual, you'll have to give equal time to Pope John Paul II, but everyone knew that, right?

Indeed, JPII played a major role in what happened, and he deserves credit for it, just like Reagan deserves credit for his part.

As far as "pride", that's just smoke blown up our ass.

A president is a lot like a coach on a football team. Often a coach can turn things around without actually changing the players on the team. Instead, he sets the tone and inspires the players to do better. That's what Reagan did, he gave the country confidence and inspired everyone to do better. You can all that smoke all you like, but the effects of that smoke can be very real, just like the effects of a placebo can be very real for the patient even if the medicine itself is BS.
 
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