G8 near to cancel the debts

imported_Tango

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Mar 8, 2005
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from Reuters:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20050610/ts_nm/group_dc



By Brian Love and Sumeet Desai Fri Jun 10, 6:26 PM ET

LONDON (Reuters) - The Group of Eight rich nations edged closer to a historic deal that would wipe out $40 billion of debts owed by 18 of the world's poorest countries as part of a British-led drive to haul Africa out of poverty.
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Britain, chairing the club of rich nations this year, has declared 2005 the year of Africa and is determined to seal an accord on debt relief and aid for the impoverished continent by the time G8 leaders meet in Gleneagles, Scotland, next month.

The White House said that the United States and Britain have agreed on the details of a proposal to wipe out the debts owed by 18 of the world's poorest countries.

"They (the United States and Britain) have now worked out the details of that proposal and they're discussing that with the G8 finance ministers in London today," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

Consensus was growing as the finance ministers met in London but officials said more details needed to be ironed out before Germany and Japan could be completely convinced.

British finance minister Gordon Brown was optimistic.

"The uniqueness of this deal is that so much would be written off almost immediately -- more than 40 billion within a few weeks of the agreement," Brown said.

Even German finance minister Hans Eichel who said before the meeting that there would be no agreement said that differences were narrowing. Canada's finance minister Ralph Goodale said if there was no agreement now, there would be at Gleneagles.

"I think we're closer now than I've seen the group of ministers and central bankers in the 18 months I've been around the table," Goodale told Reuters.

STEP FORWARD

Charities said the deal would not cover all the 62 countries they say need their debts canceled for any hope of achieving
United Nations targets of halving world poverty.

"We certainly see it as a step forward but according to our analysis it still would provide 10 percent of the debt relief that is needed to significantly reduce poverty by 2015," said Romilly Greenhill of ActionAid.

On Saturday, the finance ministers will also take stock of their own economic problems, such as slow growth in Europe and Japan, record deficits in the United States and tension over China's currency policy.

Africa, however, was the main focus at the meeting of finance ministers from the United States, Canada, Japan, Russia, France, Germany, Italy and Britain as the UK finance minister has personally championed the African cause.

"Our intention is that Africa is enabled and empowered to break free from the cycle of debt relief, poverty and economic under-development that has cost so many lives for so long," Brown said in a television interview.

Of the 18 countries benefiting from quick relief from any deal concluded at Gleneagles, 14 will be from sub-Saharan Africa, where millions die each year from disease and poverty.

British Treasury officials said a further nine impoverished countries could qualify for assistance within 12 to 18 months and there were potentially 38, mostly African, nations that might benefit, for total debt relief of $55 billion.

But Britain's other main proposal -- doubling aid to Africa -- looked unlikely to make any progress at this meeting and would probably be pushed back to Gleneagles.

Pop star Bob Geldof and others are urging a million people to turn up in Scotland next month to demand a deal on debt relief and aid for Africa.

Charity Oxfam said the United States spends 25 times as much on defense as on aid while Britons spend as much on wine as on aid.

MONEY CAN'T BUY HAPPINESS

Other finance ministers are keen to promote a range of different issues, including keeping up pressure on China, now the world's seventh-largest economy, to ease its grip on the yuan currency.

Trade tensions are rising as Chinese clothes exports to the rest of the world surge and Beijing is under pressure to relax state controls that keep the yuan's value low and exports cheap.

U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow urged his Chinese counterpart Jin Renqing to scrap the yuan's exchange rate peg to the dollar. He met Jin on Friday but the appeal is unlikely to spark any rapid action.

"China's economy is growing bigger. It is necessary for China to move toward a flexible foreign exchange policy... But when to move or what to do, it is up to China to make a responsible decision," Japanese Finance Minister Sadakazu Tanigaki told reporters.

China, India, South Africa and Brazil have been invited to a breakfast meeting with the G8 ministers on Saturday.

Brown said each continent had to play its part in fostering growth as the world faced the challenge of sky-high oil prices.

"We will be looking at how Europe can do more economic structural reform, America can deal with the issues they know they have to deal with -- their twin deficits, Japan and its financial sector reform."
 

zendari

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May 27, 2005
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Our country is already badly in debt, the last thing we should be doing is cancelling debts on others. :thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:
 
May 10, 2001
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debt forgiveness is the best way one country can help another.

the actuarial effects of debt forgiveness help the indebted country much more than the amount forgiven and remove from the liquidity of the lending country much less than is being forgiven.

it's a win-win situation.

though I do agree, America gives the more money than any other country, we should take care of our problems here first.

we can achieve both by replacing, or even increasing, portions of current level of foreign aid with debt forgiveness.
 

ValuedCustomer

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May 5, 2004
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Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
debt forgiveness is the best way one country can help another.

Yes, let's forgive the debt racked up by the sleazy despots who have virtually enslaved their populations and siphoned all but a few pennies form the economy to fuel their disgusting, immoral dictatorships. Just one less thing for them to worry about (as if!!) -

 

imported_Tango

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Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

though I do agree, America gives the more money than any other country, we should take care of our problems here first.

I don't know why so many people think the US are the biggest charity donor... in fact the US are not among the biggest pro-capita donor, nor in absolute terms, nor in percentage on the GDP...

 

imported_Tango

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Mar 8, 2005
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Originally posted by: zendari
Our country is already badly in debt, the last thing we should be doing is cancelling debts on others. :thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

They wouldn't pay them anyway... but by forgiving their debts they stop paying the interests, and thus liberate a lot of resources for their developement...
 

sandorski

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Oct 10, 1999
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Good news. Hopefully we won't go back to lending them money they won't be able to afford.
 

Forsythe

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May 2, 2004
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Originally posted by: sandorski
Good news. Hopefully we won't go back to lending them money they won't be able to afford.

Well, the basic problem is that they aren't paying the loans, they're paying the rent, most of them haven't reached the loans yet. That's general for most african countries.
 

Martin

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Jan 15, 2000
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Originally posted by: zendari
Our country is already badly in debt, the last thing we should be doing is cancelling debts on others. :thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

that is a horrible thing to say.
 

ntdz

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Aug 5, 2004
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Originally posted by: Tango
Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

though I do agree, America gives the more money than any other country, we should take care of our problems here first.

I don't know why so many people think the US are the biggest charity donor... in fact the US are not among the biggest pro-capita donor, nor in absolute terms, nor in percentage on the GDP...

Yes, actually, we are the biggest contributor. The government spends the most on charities of any other country, and we as people, privately, spend even more than the government.
 

Mark R

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Oct 9, 1999
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debt forgiveness is the best way one country can help another.
the actuarial effects of debt forgiveness help the indebted country much more than the amount forgiven and remove from the liquidity of the lending country much less than is being forgiven.
it's a win-win situation.

So says theory, at least. Sadly, reality tells a different story.
In 2000 several countries had much or all of their debt forgiven by the G8 - Uganda, Bolivia and Mauritania.

The same incompetnet governments that had accrued much of the debt remained in power, and saw the opportunity to begin a massive programme of development. This was poorly planned and hugely expensive - no doubt with large amount of money 'liberated' by various people along the line. The countries borrowed heavily to fund this development, but it never provided much practical benefit.

All 3 countries are now at least as indebted as they were prior to the debt forgiveness. Uganda nearly twice as deeply indebted - to the point that they can no longer afford to service the debt, let alone repay it.

Debt forgiveness is only part of the answer - these countries new strong governments which can deal with corruption and the in-fighting among various peoples. It's troubling that for every 1$ given in aid to many of these countries, they spend nearly $20 on arms.
 

Forsythe

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May 2, 2004
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Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: Tango
Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

though I do agree, America gives the more money than any other country, we should take care of our problems here first.

I don't know why so many people think the US are the biggest charity donor... in fact the US are not among the biggest pro-capita donor, nor in absolute terms, nor in percentage on the GDP...

Yes, actually, we are the biggest contributor. The government spends the most on charities of any other country, and we as people, privately, spend even more than the government.

How about some data instead of just your word, which i have problems trusting beforehand.
 

Forsythe

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May 2, 2004
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Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Forsythe
How about some data instead of just your word, which i have problems trusting beforehand.

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

This is only one program of developmental aid through this one program, but some people mainly bring up only this type of aid.

Probably up at the top in terms of military aid as well.

Thank you :)

So, apart from Italy, America is the worst contributor in that statistic.
 
May 10, 2001
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The bush administration has said it?ll link debt forgiveness to democratic reform, an amazingly good idea that flies in the face of the ?pay of those who hate you? that causes us to pay so much to Egypt in foreign aid. Nor our personal contributions to foreign charities. The US simply isn?t a socialist country, so individual contributions are much higher, and thus more spiritually meaningful to the individuals who give.

in fact the US are not among the biggest pro-capita donor
because it?s a fact that the US gives the most money, overall. Nor is our use of military power to bring stability and help to other countries added to our foreign aid either.

Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Forsythe
How about some data instead of just your word, which i have problems trusting beforehand.
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp
This is only one program of developmental aid through this one program, but some people mainly bring up only this type of aid. Probably up at the top in terms of military aid as ell.
Thank you :) So, apart from Italy, America is the worst contributor in that statistic.

From that link:
there are no complete figures for international private giving
 

Forsythe

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May 2, 2004
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Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
The bush administration has said it?ll link debt forgiveness to democratic reform, an amazingly good idea that flies in the face of the ?pay of those who hate you? that causes us to pay so much to Egypt in foreign aid. Nor our personal contributions to foreign charities. The US simply isn?t a socialist country, so individual contributions are much higher, and thus more spiritually meaningful to the individuals who give.

in fact the US are not among the biggest pro-capita donor
because it?s a fact that the US gives the most money, overall. Nor is our use of military power to bring stability and help to other countries added to our foreign aid either.

Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Forsythe
How about some data instead of just your word, which i have problems trusting beforehand.
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp
This is only one program of developmental aid through this one program, but some people mainly bring up only this type of aid. Probably up at the top in terms of military aid as ell.
Thank you :) So, apart from Italy, America is the worst contributor in that statistic.

From that link:
there are no complete figures for international private giving

I know, but i'm talking about government charity. It also says several times that americans are the best private givers. Although there are no figures, i expect that to be true.

The only thing i can say is that i'm sad our liberal governmen tdecreased our charity from 1.07% to 0.84%.
 
May 10, 2001
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Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
The bush administration has said it?ll link debt forgiveness to democratic reform, an amazingly good idea that flies in the face of the ?pay of those who hate you? that causes us to pay so much to Egypt in foreign aid. Nor our personal contributions to foreign charities. The US simply isn?t a socialist country, so individual contributions are much higher, and thus more spiritually meaningful to the individuals who give.

in fact the US are not among the biggest pro-capita donor
because it?s a fact that the US gives the most money, overall. Nor is our use of military power to bring stability and help to other countries added to our foreign aid either.

Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Forsythe
How about some data instead of just your word, which i have problems trusting beforehand.
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp
This is only one program of developmental aid through this one program, but some people mainly bring up only this type of aid. Probably up at the top in terms of military aid as ell.
Thank you :) So, apart from Italy, America is the worst contributor in that statistic.

From that link:
there are no complete figures for international private giving

I know, but i'm talking about government charity. It also says several times that americans are the best private givers. Although there are no figures, i expect that to be true.

The only thing i can say is that i'm sad our liberal governmen tdecreased our charity from 1.07% to 0.84%.

it's all a cost/benifit analasis. sad but true.

How many African lives are you willing to triad for research into quantum computers or deep space exploration?
How many lives does running your computer or going out to eat cost?

I care for others, but turn a blind eye to all my extravagancies while others die, just like we all do.

I pray for anything but justice in this situation, because I know if life where fair I?d end up like the rich man begging for all those African Lazarus? to give me but a drop of water.
 
Aug 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Forsythe
How about some data instead of just your word, which i have problems trusting beforehand.

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

This is only one program of developmental aid through this one program, but some people mainly bring up only this type of aid.

Probably up at the top in terms of military aid as well.

Thank you :)

So, apart from Italy, America is the worst contributor in that statistic.

In terms of % of GDP or whatever, yes, in that one specific program.
 

Engineer

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Oct 9, 1999
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Maybe in a few years, we can get the world to cancel our debts as well! :laugh:
 

episodic

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Feb 7, 2004
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Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer
Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
debt forgiveness is the best way one country can help another.

Yes, let's forgive the debt racked up by the sleazy despots who have virtually enslaved their populations and siphoned all but a few pennies form the economy to fuel their disgusting, immoral dictatorships. Just one less thing for them to worry about (as if!!) -

//yep. . .
 
May 10, 2001
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Originally posted by: episodic
Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer
Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
debt forgiveness is the best way one country can help another.

Yes, let's forgive the debt racked up by the sleazy despots who have virtually enslaved their populations and siphoned all but a few pennies form the economy to fuel their disgusting, immoral dictatorships. Just one less thing for them to worry about (as if!!) -

//yep. . .

The bush administration has said it?ll link debt forgiveness to democratic reform, an amazingly good idea that flies in the face of the ?pay of those who hate you? that causes us to pay so much to Egypt in foreign aid.

Originally posted by: Engineer
Maybe in a few years, we can get the world to cancel our debts as well! :laugh:

more like we'll cancel our own debts