FX chips better than i5 for video editing?

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sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
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You really should be comparing the FX-8320 with a 4M cache i3, since those are the products that most closely match up at real market prices.

http://www.amazon.com/AMD-FX-8320E-P.../dp/B00MUTWEM6

I personally would still rather have the i3 due to the higher general performance. With video editing you usually do not need top notch performance because we're talking about jobs for which you already have to multitask around anyway. No one sits in front of their computer for 20-200 minutes ogling over the raw speed and power of their encoding. So it really dont matter if it takes 20 minutes for an i3 or 12 minutes for the an 8 thread chip.
 
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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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You really should be comparing the FX-8320 with a 4M cache i3, since those are the products that most closely match up at real market prices.

http://www.amazon.com/AMD-FX-8320E-P.../dp/B00MUTWEM6

I personally would still rather have the i3 due to the higher general performance. With video editing you usually do not need top notch performance because we're talking about jobs for which you already have to multitask around anyway. No one sits in front of their computer for 20-200 minutes ogling over the raw speed and power of their encoding. So it really dont matter if it takes 20 minutes for an i3 or 12 minutes for the an 8 thread chip.


If you don't mind overclocking, I'd take the FX 8320 every single time. :)
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
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i3 vs fx83xx? That gotta be a trick question or what? i3 in 2014/2015 Vs FX83xx is no brainer, FX83xx is just a better CPU. i3 is locked and even tho has considerably higher ST IPC, FX clocks MUCH higher and can make up that deficit completely. Then we go to MT workloads which are becoming more and more prevalent each day goes by and i3 looks like a toy compared to FX. Sorry to say it but i3 has nothing on FX83xx.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
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i3 vs fx83xx? That gotta be a trick question or what? i3 in 2014/2015 Vs FX83xx is no brainer, FX83xx is just a better CPU. i3 is locked and even tho has considerably higher ST IPC, FX clocks MUCH higher and can make up that deficit completely. Then we go to MT workloads which are becoming more and more prevalent each day goes by and i3 looks like a toy compared to FX. Sorry to say it but i3 has nothing on FX83xx.
Overclocking is required for that to make sense. For most users, locked v. unlocked doesn't matter, nor what some CPU might be capable of at higher clocks than factory.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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Overclocking is required for that to make sense. For most users, locked v. unlocked doesn't matter, nor what some CPU might be capable of at higher clocks than factory.

True, but this is CPU and Overclocking section of enthusiast's Forum ;)

Also, Multitasking is something that 99% of people does every day. You can encode while playing or doing something else on your PC. And FX83xx is ways better doing that than Core i3.
Hell, we were doing Multitasking on Single Core CPUs (without even know it), now that we have 8 cores/threads people will stop using there PC when they Encode ?? :rolleyes:
 

Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
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For the average consumer an i3 is probably better. For me, I'd probably go with the FX-8xxx under the restriction that I wouldn't be able to drop in an 1150 quad later (and sell the i3 for about what I paid).

For what my dad does, an i3 would be a superior chip. Better SATA controllers, more and faster USB ports, more recent audio codecs, with a very cool running (and thus quiet) CPU is an excellent combination. Throw in the integrated video and you have a winner. He gets a cool, quiet, small form factor, inexpensive box that requires no addons and performs very well.

The FX when heavily overclocked, isn't that far behind a stock Haswell in single-threaded performance, and I rarely use the integrated video. I have a discrete sound card, so dated audio isn't an issue either. Power consumption (and thus heat generated), and noise are factors for me, but I already have aftermarket heatsinks laying around that I can use, and a fairly high wattage power supply, so they aren't added cost in my case. The heat and weaker platform are probably acceptable trade-offs for the extra multithreaded performance, as I often have a lot running in the background, and there isn't much lost with PCIe 2.0, especially if not running Crossfire without a bridge.

I think there's a valid argument for both chips. Highest performance isn't the only metric, but it's one an overclocked FX undoubtedly wins.
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
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Overclocking is required for that to make sense. For most users, locked v. unlocked doesn't matter, nor what some CPU might be capable of at higher clocks than factory.
FX8320 has factory Turbo alleviating ST performance deficit, no OC needed. Even at stock the MT performance difference is just astounding between the two.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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Well core i3 should only be compared to FM2+ Kaveri APUs and again it still comes behind in MT loads.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
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FX8320 has factory Turbo alleviating ST performance deficit, no OC needed. Even at stock the MT performance difference is just astounding between the two.

I believe the IPC difference is somewhere around 60%? That works out to needing around 5.5GHz to match an i3 in the first 2 threads.

On the other hand, even with a 60% IPC advantage, and getting 30% more from hyperthreading, an i3 is at best (assuming 20% performance loss per thread for saturating modules on the FX) only around 60% as fast as an FX-8 in programs that will use all 8 threads effectively. Or, looking at it the other way, an FX-8 can be nearly 70% faster.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
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True, but this is CPU and Overclocking section of enthusiast's Forum ;)

Also, Multitasking is something that 99% of people does every day. You can encode while playing or doing something else on your PC. And FX83xx is ways better doing that than Core i3.
Hell, we were doing Multitasking on Single Core CPUs (without even know it), now that we have 8 cores/threads people will stop using there PC when they Encode ?? :rolleyes:
You start encoding, then you don't worry about it. It'll be done when it's done. The OS mostly handles how much it can get in your way, being a non-interactive task (specifically, a time-slice hog, so it will be treated as secondary to processes using less of their time), usually automatically set to a lower priority than normal, to boot. :rolleyes:, indeed. I used a Core 2 Duo for video transcoding, and it was simply not noticeable, except for taking a few more seconds to become snappy again after being idle, if encoding. Nothing has changed going to a Xeon E3-1230V3, except the total time taken. Same goes for file compression, and other batch processing tasks. It only matters if you are going to do those things enough that they are a reason for buying that particular CPU, if you are in fact waiting on their completion to do whatever you need to be doing.

With a Core i3, multitasking will be primarily IO-limited, for most power users, most of the time (all of the time for all normal users). What needs the HW thread and cache is the IE or Chrome tab with Dropbox, Lucidhcart, Google Docs, Owncloud, etc., chewing up CPU with Javascript, or Excel running a little something, etc., which i3s handle very well--usually better, due to higher typical IPC. A Haswell Core i3 is a very good multitasking CPU, so long as the number of concurrent tasks is fairly limited.

Can I use more than an i3? Sure. For example, I don't want to need to shut down VMs or browsers to play games at decent performance; don't want to have to stop one VM to use others, deal with laggy programs due to too many processes trying to be active at once, that the OS thinks might all be interactive; etc.. An i3 is not going to handle that so well (even with only 10-15% total CPU use, and no core staying near 100%). But, I am willing to admit that, even amongst power users, I'm not the norm. If your usage uses the 4M8T to its strengths, that doesn't mean everyone should want one, when they aren't doing any of that.

That an i3 gives you a better platform for the money is icing on the cake, and can make it cheaper, if there's no need for a video card with the i3 (FM2+ would be more comparable, there).

Well core i3 should only be compared to FM2+ Kaveri APUs and again it still comes behind in MT loads.
Except everywhere that it doesn't, which is pretty much in everything but gaming with IGP (not something I'd want to do with Intel's lack of video driver settings, anyway, nor recommend--AMD has that niche covered better, IMO, due to the Cats, even when performance will be CPU-bound). For most uses, there won't be a bit of perceivable difference in performance, and the i3 uses less power and takes as little or less time for any CPU/RAM-bound task (but, against FM2+, does not have the advantage it does over AM3+).

And, there should not be limits to what can be compared against what, except price. Features and performance for the cost matter, nothing else. If an A10 offers competitive performance for the cost, it shouldn't be ignored just because you might get a video card. Likewise, an i3 is quite comparable to an FX-8320, being of similar cost (iff you're going to get a video card anyway), no matter that one is 2C4T and the other 4M8T.
 
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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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Overall a $109 Core i3 (not the fastest) easily matches a stock $179 A10-7850K in modern apps (Amazon.com prices). If you want faster CPU performance from AMD for less money then you have to give up the IGP and go AM3+ or rely on overclocking.

www.hardware.fr/articles/913-7/cpu-performances-applicatives.html

Yea they used the Asrock motherboard like Anandtech and many more. That board is severely hampers Kaveris performance.
Well, sorry but even A10-7700K at default is faster than Core i3 in MT loads, not to mention it is way faster when Overclocked, even at 4GHz with default cooler.

http://apusilicon.com/apu-wars-amd-a10-7700k-vs-intel-core-i3-4330
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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Yea they used the Asrock motherboard like Anandtech and many more. That board is severely hampers Kaveris performance.
Well, sorry but even A10-7700K at default is faster than Core i3 in MT loads, not to mention it is way faster when Overclocked, even at 4GHz with default cooler.

http://apusilicon.com/apu-wars-amd-a10-7700k-vs-intel-core-i3-4330
The motherboard appears to have no performance impact. The two reviews are doing different tests. Where the tests overlap, the scores are similar between them. One just has a wider range of programs being tested, and is using different methods for some programs (IE, that review seems like it's made to favor the AMD CPUs, rather than testing an array of programs that may be relevant to real-world usage).

Much more realistic/practical (and using one of the fastest mobos for the CPU, to boot):
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2014/01/30/amd-a10-7850k-and-a10-7700k-kaveri-review/5
The A10-7850K and A10-7700K are way too expensive, if not OCing. The A8-7600, OTOH, is a very good value, if you have use for the Radeon. The A10-7350B is probably the biggest winner for AMD itself :).
 
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Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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The motherboard appears to have no performance impact. The two reviews are doing different tests. Where the tests overlap, the scores are similar between them. One just has a wider range of programs being tested.

I have used the Asrock FM2A88X-ITX+ and it hampered Kaveri badly both in performance and in power usage. I dont know if they have fixed it with a new bios update since then.

Example, the Kaveri A10-7700K with a score of 2.61 is with the Asrock FM2A88X-ITX+ at default settings. When i run the same CPU with the ASUS A88XM-Plus i got 3.43 without even properly setting up the system.

1220u3l.jpg
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
3,884
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I believe the IPC difference is somewhere around 60%? That works out to needing around 5.5GHz to match an i3 in the first 2 threads.

On the other hand, even with a 60% IPC advantage, and getting 30% more from hyperthreading, an i3 is at best (assuming 20% performance loss per thread for saturating modules on the FX) only around 60% as fast as an FX-8 in programs that will use all 8 threads effectively. Or, looking at it the other way, an FX-8 can be nearly 70% faster.
I think it's between 50 and 55% higher IPC on Haswell side, depending on the benchmark used (probably there are some outliers showing 2x higher IPC xd).

I just saw intel launched some crazy clocked 2C/4T models. Top bin is now 3.8Ghz but it's very pricey. It lacks Turbo (normally) but it doesn't need it due to very high stock clock.

If one uses some mid range i3 for comparison (~3.2Ghz stock clock) Vs the FX83xx OCed to ~4.5Ghz (pretty much achievable on good air cooling) then i3's ST lead shrinks to some 10-15% which is not gonna be noticed anywhere. MT performance will be much much better on FX , around the number you stated in your post.
 
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Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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I have used the Asrock FM2A88X-ITX+ and it hampered Kaveri badly both in performance and in power usage. I dont know if they have fixed it with a new bios update since then.

Example, the Kaveri A10-7700K with a score of 2.61 is with the Asrock FM2A88X-ITX+ at default settings. When i run the same CPU with the ASUS A88XM-Plus i got 3.43 without even properly setting up the system.

1220u3l.jpg
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_a10_7850k_apu_review,12.html

No 7700K, but unless it's a problem specific to the 7700K, that looks fine and dandy, and 3.6 v. 3.4 would be about right.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
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I think it's between 50 and 55% higher IPC on Haswell side, depending on the benchmark used (probably there are some outliers showing 2x higher IPC xd).

I just saw intel launched some crazy clocked 2C/4T models. Top bin is now 3.8Ghz but it's very pricey. It lacks Turbo (normally) but it doesn't need it due to very high stock clock.

If one uses some mid range i3 for comparison (~3.2Ghz stock clock) Vs the FX83xx OCed to ~4.5Ghz (pretty much achievable on good air cooling) then i3's ST lead shrinks to some 10-15% which is not gonna be noticed anywhere. MT performance will be much much better on FX , around the number you stated in your post.
OTOH, that's likely $180+ for the CPU and a cooler, plus not caring about heat/electricity/noise, and having a video card for sure. It very well aught to do better for you over a ~$130 w/ good IGP option.

The ~$160 i3 is crazy, IMO, when the i5-4460 is just ~$180, even with a bit of a clock advantage. I think Intel's marketing guys just hated the price gap, and wanted to fill it with something.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
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i3 vs fx83xx? That gotta be a trick question or what? i3 in 2014/2015 Vs FX83xx is no brainer, FX83xx is just a better CPU. i3 is locked and even tho has considerably higher ST IPC, FX clocks MUCH higher and can make up that deficit completely. Then we go to MT workloads which are becoming more and more prevalent each day goes by and i3 looks like a toy compared to FX. Sorry to say it but i3 has nothing on FX83xx.

Whatever else you want to say about the i3, there is no way for AMD to catch the faster ones like the 4340, 4360 and 4370 in ST performance, not even an OCed FX-9590. The deficit won't be made up completely, not even close. I don't even really want to post benchmarks proving this because fans gonna believe what fans gonna believe, but here is one:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/1030

And another:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/344

And another:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/1025

I guess they could ALL be total BS... I'll leave it to the gentle readers to decide.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,695
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The ~$160 i3 is crazy, IMO, when the i5-4460 is just ~$180, even with a bit of a clock advantage. I think Intel's marketing guys just hated the price gap, and wanted to fill it with something.
Actually those 44xx i5s tend to have a pretty poor Turbo multiplier. Depending on the need, a faster i3 can be better.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,910
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Funny thing is that even in your carefully chosen benchmark selection Core i3 is still pretty competitive. Not to mention the fact that you can buy a Core i5 4430 for the same price as the A10 7850K (@ Amazon).

And yet this is the old hardware.fr averages with oudated softs,
since then the CPUs that have hard cores or more cores have seen a noticeable uplift.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
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Whatever else you want to say about the i3, there is no way for AMD to catch the faster ones like the 4340, 4360 and 4370 in ST performance, not even an OCed FX-9590. The deficit won't be made up completely, not even close. I don't even really want to post benchmarks proving this because fans gonna believe what fans gonna believe, but here is one:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/1030

And another:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/344

And another:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/1025

I guess they could ALL be total BS... I'll leave it to the gentle readers to decide.


I'm not disagreeing with you, Intel certainly does better at single threaded performance. But what does being able to score a 2.05 in Cinemark single threaded vs. 1.21 mean in real life practical terms? In this age of sub 15 watt CPU's running Windows, what does this mean to an average user? Would they be able to tell the difference between an i3, i5, even an i7 and an FX (assuming they all have an SSD)?

Are all those benches listed that show single threaded performance actually being artificially limited to one thread? (honest question, I know Cinebench is, what about the others) If so, how does that represent real applications, that in this day and age tend to be multithreaded if they need to be, or single threaded if they don't need to be as any modern processor is going to be fast enough?

I'm not suggesting the FX is better, I want to be clear on that. But I don't think it is very much worse if not neck and neck with pricier options from Intel in an actual use scenarios, not just watching SuperPi numbers.
 

BSim500

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,480
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Funny thing is that even in your carefully chosen benchmark selection Core i3 is still pretty competitive. Not to mention the fact that you can buy a Core i5 4430 for the same price as the A10 7850K (@ Amazon).
Indeed, at which point even with cherry picked arbitrary scenario's like "heavy background video encoding whilst heavy gaming" (LOL) the A10 gets crushed. It's a CPU that makes sense at $130-$150 but as it is, even the slowest i5 is roughly +35-40% faster averaged across a dozen apps (7-zip, Lightroom, Visual Studio, X264, etc). A +40% boost for +1% price-tag increase ($180 vs $182) is a total no brainer to all but die-hard fanboys (not even factoring in power consumption differences).

As for "encoding background video whilst playing games" (odd usage comparisons which only ever seem to spring up when comparing AMD quad's to Intel's duals... :sneaky:) it makes far more sense on ANY CPU to encode when you're not doing anything else (ie, when you're eating dinner, showering, taking the dog for a walk, browsing the web, or for huge workloads of dozens of queued up vids even leave it running overnight then set it to switch itself off when finished, etc). Common sense / intelligent time management is a good thing regardless of what CPU you own. :D