ForceCalibur
Banned
I think 5900s are much cheaper than 9800s. Even NU/ flashed to 5950 Ultra. I just saw one go for 157 shipped on ebay. Radeon 9800 pros rarely go for less than 180-200 shipped, even on ebay.
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FX 5900XT 128mb VS 9800PRO 128mb
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Gamingphreek
Lifer
I think that little benchmark is a little in ATI's favour. I mean cmon how the hell is a 5900 being beaten by 24% by a 9700PRO. Cmon that is a bit screwed up there.
Secondly Nvidia loses in one main category and that is AA and AF. That is because Nvidia is too STUPID to use hardware for that... i believe Nvidia goes to no optimized and some software rendering for AA and AF. But other than that it is a pretty even match with ATI winning 60% of the time and nvidia trailing with 40%.
It does come down to personal preference whether you would like to admit it or not! The only time when it is obvious is when playing HL2. Valve is completely against Nvidia doing anything in that game.. so there are virtually no Nvidia optimizations there. I would definately use ATI hardware in that game
The Nvidia cards are much cheaper than the ATI cards. The 5900XT cost <200$ whereas like one or two 9800PRO's cost 200 and the rest are like around 300$. Also at the 200$ for Nvidia you can get a VIVO card whereas ATI you gotta pay big bucks to get the Asus version with it which is around 270$ at newegg i think.
-Kevin
Secondly Nvidia loses in one main category and that is AA and AF. That is because Nvidia is too STUPID to use hardware for that... i believe Nvidia goes to no optimized and some software rendering for AA and AF. But other than that it is a pretty even match with ATI winning 60% of the time and nvidia trailing with 40%.
It does come down to personal preference whether you would like to admit it or not! The only time when it is obvious is when playing HL2. Valve is completely against Nvidia doing anything in that game.. so there are virtually no Nvidia optimizations there. I would definately use ATI hardware in that game
The Nvidia cards are much cheaper than the ATI cards. The 5900XT cost <200$ whereas like one or two 9800PRO's cost 200 and the rest are like around 300$. Also at the 200$ for Nvidia you can get a VIVO card whereas ATI you gotta pay big bucks to get the Asus version with it which is around 270$ at newegg i think.
-Kevin
GeneralGrievous
Banned
That benchmark was the average of 8 games.
Why is it so hard to believe the 9700 Pro can beat the 5900? 1 has good architecture, 1 does not.
These are the games used: "Unreal Tournament 2003, Far Cry, Tomb Raider : Angel of Darkness, Splinter Cell : Pandora Tomorrow, IL-2 Forgotten Battles, Warcraft III, Colin Mc Rae Rally 04 et Fifa 2004." Other than TR:AoD, I think it's a good sample.
nV loses by roughly the same amount with and without AA+AF. Keep in mind the 5900 series is brilinear all the time, too, so it's not a completely unfair comparison. I'm not sure what you mean by nV not using hardware for AA+AF.
Sure, personal preference (IHV, res, settings, games, budget, OCing) plays a factor, but Xbit and HW.fr paint a pretty convincing picture of 9800P>5900XT at stock speeds.
IIRC, FX hardware performed well with DX8 settings in HL2, so FX owners should be able to enjoy playable framerates, if not every last DX9 effect. I don't see Valve being "against" nV, as they implemented HDR with integer formats for them (whereas ATi can do it with FP, as all the ~9/30/03 HL2 benchmark articles said). Bottom line, I think it's fair to say the FX series is worse at DX9, and HL2 will push DX9 hard. But Valve has also said the engine was made with an eye toward older hardware, so it should be as simple as changing an in-game setting or three to switch HL2 to DX8 effects and enjoy it on a FX card at speed.
You can get a brand new 9800 pro for $172 shipped from newegg.
That's a 128-bit "9800 Pro." It would be more accurate to call it a 9500 Pro XT. 😉 It won't be anywhere near as fast as a regular 256-bit 9800P at high res or with AA+AF.
nV loses by roughly the same amount with and without AA+AF. Keep in mind the 5900 series is brilinear all the time, too, so it's not a completely unfair comparison. I'm not sure what you mean by nV not using hardware for AA+AF.
Sure, personal preference (IHV, res, settings, games, budget, OCing) plays a factor, but Xbit and HW.fr paint a pretty convincing picture of 9800P>5900XT at stock speeds.
IIRC, FX hardware performed well with DX8 settings in HL2, so FX owners should be able to enjoy playable framerates, if not every last DX9 effect. I don't see Valve being "against" nV, as they implemented HDR with integer formats for them (whereas ATi can do it with FP, as all the ~9/30/03 HL2 benchmark articles said). Bottom line, I think it's fair to say the FX series is worse at DX9, and HL2 will push DX9 hard. But Valve has also said the engine was made with an eye toward older hardware, so it should be as simple as changing an in-game setting or three to switch HL2 to DX8 effects and enjoy it on a FX card at speed.
You can get a brand new 9800 pro for $172 shipped from newegg.
That's a 128-bit "9800 Pro." It would be more accurate to call it a 9500 Pro XT. 😉 It won't be anywhere near as fast as a regular 256-bit 9800P at high res or with AA+AF.
GeneralGrievous
Banned
That's your opinion on it.... for me 30 fps is unplayable. I can deal with 40 though.
ForceCalibur
Banned
100 is unplayable. No seriously, anything over 60 is GREAT, anything from 30-60 is "playable" but not nearly as fun.
Wisconsin is to states what the 6800U is to video cards- teh roxor! 😉 I live in a border community of Madison, it just got voted best place by Forbes (I think) and has been voted best place to live by Money as well.
It's big enough to have a lot of city amenities, small enough to be low on crime.
Jeff7181
Lifer
I'm talking average... sure if you can get a constant 40 frames per second without dropping at all it'll be playable... but the fact of the matter is, with an average of 40 frames per second, you're going to have it dip into the 20's at times, and rise into the 60's at times. That's what I mean by unplayable.
nemesismk2
Diamond Member
I visited Madison Capitol building during my extended stay and had some fun in the lift with my gf! 😱
I also liked Lake Geneva and a little village called Wales (they even have a real welsh flag flying by their american flag and a dragon on all of their road signs). With me being Welsh and living in the real Wales I thought finding a place in America with Welsh connections was really cool! 🙂
Wales in Wisconsin 🙂
I followed the link, I won't be shutting up and apologizing. As important as the "highly anticipated unreleased" games are, like I said, there's just a handful of games out using shaders that show ATIs advantage at this point in time.
As usual, you point at the most infintesimal, tiny percentage of performance benchmarks and start yelling,"See! I told you!" like a street corner preacher.
For the vast majority of apps, it's a coin toss. For the couple that do use PS2, I've yet to see side by side screen shots showing the advantage to the extent where I've thought,"Wow- that really does make a difference".
I agree that DX9 is the way of the future, but don't think either of these cards is the one to get to run it.
ForceCalibur
Banned
Those are confirmed 128 bit 9800 Pros. Craptastic, no thank you.
Btw, the 5900XT is all about luck. If you get one with 2.2 ns memory, you basically got a 5900 Ultra/5950 Ultra.
But if you if dont want to take the risk, buy a 5900 NU off ebay. I see them go for 150-160 SHIPPED. That's a bit cheaper than some Radeon 9800 pros, so if your on a budget, thats the best way to go I think.
GeneralGrievous
Banned
I think you can get 9700 Pros for even lower than that.
BFG10K
Lifer
There goes your inaccurate generalization again.
Let's try it another way: in each of the X-Bit games pick the highest quality benchmark and then calculate the percentage performance delta between the 9800 Pro and the 5900XT.
Then look at the results and tell me if you need to flip a coin to figure out which card is better.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
RussianSensation
Elite Member
Because 59xx cards suck in intense games (esp. PS2.0 performance).
X-BitLabs
1 - Call of Duty
2 - UT2k4
3 - Tron
4 - HL2
5 - S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
6 - FarCry
7 - SplinterCell
Digit-Life
1 - Call of Duty
2 - FarCry
3 - Unreal 2
4 - Tomb Raider
5 - HL2
FiringSquad
1 - Call of Duty
2 - IL2
3 - Quake 3
4 - Splinter Cell
5 - Tomb Raider
6 - LOMAC
7 - FarCry
9800Pro > 5900xt/5900
In the intense PS2.0 games the performance difference is between 30-80% easily.
I dont think any more reviews are necessary as it would be a waste of time. NO one who reads carefully would argue that 9700/9800/9800xt series have won the previous generation battle once you turn on AA and AF (has anyone here read one review the proclaimed a 5900xt over 9700 pro or 5900 over 9800Pro?). Plus the AA/AF implementation of the 5900 series is worse in terms of image quality in the first place. The only reason 5900xt was popular is because it was cheaper than anything else to it on the market at the time. With more and more future games utilizing PS2.0, buying NV3x architecture would be ludicrous. Yes, the performance with AA/AF enabled might still be low with 9800Pro, but without AA/AF even at 1600x1200 the 9800Pro will DESTROY a 5900 in 99% of all new games, besides perhaps doom3.
$170 (256-bit) 9800Pro is a no brainer between that and a 5900 anything.
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