Fusion ships in Q4 2010

[Janooo]

Is it going to come before SB? Let see what Intel says/does.
It's the first Bobcat CPU. Hopefully battery life will be excellent this time around for AMD.
Interesting times are coming.


http://www.computerbase.de/news/har...ember/amds-fusion-apu-auf-der-ifa-im-einsatz/
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[jvroig]

Only Llano will come this year, no Bobcat core.

Bobcat (through Ontario) will come 2011.

 

[Idontcare]

Only Llano will come this year, no Bobcat core.

Bobcat (through Ontario) will come 2011.

Sorry jv, AMD went on record saying because of 32nm yield ramp issues Llano is delayed a couple months now and will be a "late H1 2011" release. (basically back end of Q2 timeframe)

There was xbit article on it back in July. Also the OP's link mentions this at the bottom.

 

[Janooo]

Only Llano will come this year, no Bobcat core.

Bobcat (through Ontario) will come 2011.

Why would they claim 9W Ontario then? I don't think it's possible with the old core. It seems it has the Bobcat core.

 

[Idontcare]

Bobcat will only be sold to systems integrators, according to AMD, you won't find it sold at Newegg as a stand-alone socketed CPU/GPU product like SB or Llano.

At this juncture everything is 2011...be it Bobcat, Llano, or Bulldozer.

 

[jvroig]

Why would they claim 9W Ontario then? I don't think it's possible with the old core. It seems it has the Bobcat core.

You are confused.
-Ontario HAS the Bobcat core.
-Llano doesn't. Llano will use a tweaked cacheless Phenom II / Athlon II core.

Llano is the one scheduled to come first, so the first Fusion product won't have Bobcat.

This has been known for about 9 months (since November last year, I think), although the time schedules being pushed back are not as old of course.

Sorry jv, AMD went on record saying because of 32nm yield ramp issues Llano is delayed a couple months now and will be a "late H1 2011" release. (basically back end of Q2 timeframe)

So where does that leave the Bobcat release? If end of Q2 2011 is Llano, then will it only take 1 or 2 quarters for Ontario? That would make Llano a very transitional product wouldn't it? Or is Bobcat also getting pushed back more?

 

[jvroig]

Bobcat will only be sold to systems integrators, according to AMD, you won't find it sold at Newegg as a stand-alone socketed CPU/GPU product like SB or Llano.

Ah, right. So that's reason enough to release both in very close timeframes, since they'll be serving different segments. What's the latest official word on Ontario anyway? Last I heard was H1 2011, too, but since I missed the Llano delay, might have missed an Ontario delay announcement as well (although weren't they committed to H1 2011 in Hot Chips for Ontario?)

 

[Janooo]

Bobcat will only be sold to systems integrators, according to AMD, you won't find it sold at Newegg as a stand-alone socketed CPU/GPU product like SB or Llano.

At this juncture everything is 2011...be it Bobcat, Llano, or Bulldozer.

Hence this thread where the author shows AMD slide saying Ontario is coming sooner. Q4 2010.

 

[Idontcare]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di...ano_Processor_Due_to_Process_Tech_Issues.html

"Llano - our Fusion APU offering aimed at the higher end of the client market - is generating positive customer response. However, in reaction to Ontario’s market opportunities and a slower than anticipated progress of 32 nm yield curve, we are switching the timing of the Ontario and Llano production ramps. Llano production shipments are still expected to occur in the first half of next year," said Dirk Meyer, chief executive officer of AMD, during a conversation with financial analysts.

 

[Janooo]

Ah, right. So that's reason enough to release both in very close timeframes, since they'll be serving different segments. What's the latest official word on Ontario anyway? Last I heard was H1 2011, too, but since I missed the Llano delay, might have missed an Ontario delay announcement as well (although weren't they committed to H1 2011 in Hot Chips for Ontario?)

Ontario is 40nm TSMC. It was scheduled before Llano (32nm GF) and the schedule was known for long time as well. So I was surprised by your comments.

 

[Idontcare]

Janoo, maybe I am misunderstanding your post, but AMD had said Llano was scheduled to be released before Ontario...that release scheduling only changed in July.

In July they announced that because of 32nm issues they were pushing out (delaying) Llano and simultaneously pulling in (bringing ahead of schedule) the release timeline for Ontario.

Unless people happened to catch the schedule switcharoo that just happened in mid-July they will still be under the original - and now incorrect - perception that Llano is shipping before Ontario (because that was AMD's original schedule).

So two things happened here...Llano got delayed and Ontario got pulled in, and because Llano got delayed by just enough time and because Ontario got pulled in by just enough time they have now swapped places in the release ordering. (just clarifying for jv and anyone else trying to make heads or tails out of all this)

 

[jvroig]

@IDC:
Wow, they ended up with a switcheroo. So now the one with the newer core goes out first than the one with an older core.

I suppose there's a blessing in there, somewhere - that they had their eggs in two different baskets (32nm GF and 40nm TSMC) resulted in one delay but one good delivery.


@Janooo
Evidently, I have not been up to date with the Fusion timelines. So yes, I was mistaken when I mentioned Llano will come first. My apologies. This changed a little over a month ago, it seems, and all I still had in mind were the original timelines before the July announcement.



Ok, now that we've cleared that up, I suppose the real topic of this thread is: will Fusion actually ship in Q4 2010? Looks like a legit slide. Any news corroborating this? Maybe early next week tech sites here will pick this up? Since everything has been 2011 so far, this is nothing short of a significant scoop if legit. Nice find, Janooo :thumbsup:

 

[Wreckage]

Bobcat will only be sold to systems integrators, according to AMD, you won't find it sold at Newegg as a stand-alone socketed CPU/GPU product like SB or Llano.

At this juncture everything is 2011...be it Bobcat, Llano, or Bulldozer.

So virtually all of their product lines are delayed until sometime next year?

 

[PingviN]

So virtually all of their product lines are delayed until sometime next year?

Delayed? As far as I know, they've been scheduled for 2011 for a long time now.

 

[Martimus]

So where does that leave the Bobcat release? If end of Q2 2011 is Llano, then will it only take 1 or 2 quarters for Ontario? That would make Llano a very transitional product wouldn't it? Or is Bobcat also getting pushed back more?

Ontario is being manufactured at TSMC on their 40nm bulk process. The GF delay does not affect Ontario (Bobcat), and that is why it is now being released first (before Llano).

EDIT: I'm sorry, it appears that this was posted a few times already between your post and mine. Oh well, I guess I can add to the clutter.

Also, the newer core is a different market than the older "K10.5" core. The Bobcat cores are very stripped down OoO processors designed to run as power efficiently as possible (an Atom competitor in the Netbook/small notebook market), while the Llano is based on a modified Thuban core with power gating (aimed at the midrange market the current Phenom II competes in).

 

[KingstonU]

[rant of a frustrated AMD supporter / supporter of competition]

Wow this news just makes me shake my head at the fact that AMD, after two years already, is still having incredible difficulties in getting their next gen to market with delay after delay.

So many concepts they bragged about out has taken them so long to actually make into a product that the competition has already gone and copied and started selling it before them.

Not to mention the performance advantage these new concepts and designs would have had in 2009 will no longer be an advantage because instead of competing with Nehalem they are competing with Sandy Bridge or even Ivy Bridge.

/rant

 

[Vesku]

I'm itching to get a 13" Ontario notebook, assuming it's under $400. If for no other reason then to check out it's performance claims, 90% of the current mobile Athlon II performance. Interesting that they show a "Zacate" APU, at twice the Ontario TDP, meant for notebooks. Is this a stopgap while Llano is delayed? If that comes out at the same time as Ontario I would definitely have to compare battery life versus performance.

 

[brybir]

[rant of a frustrated AMD supporter / supporter of competition]

Wow this news just makes me shake my head at the fact that AMD, after two years already, is still having incredible difficulties in getting their next gen to market with delay after delay.

So many concepts they bragged about out has taken them so long to actually make into a product that the competition has already gone and copied and started selling it before them.

Not to mention the performance advantage these new concepts and designs would have had in 2009 will no longer be an advantage because instead of competing with Nehalem they are competing with Sandy Bridge or even Ivy Bridge.

/rant

Designing world class CPU's is hard work, incredibly hard when factored in with the uncertainties surrounding manufacturing node that a design is based around even existing.

 

[ModestGamer]

[rant of a frustrated AMD supporter / supporter of competition]

Wow this news just makes me shake my head at the fact that AMD, after two years already, is still having incredible difficulties in getting their next gen to market with delay after delay.

So many concepts they bragged about out has taken them so long to actually make into a product that the competition has already gone and copied and started selling it before them.

Not to mention the performance advantage these new concepts and designs would have had in 2009 will no longer be an advantage because instead of competing with Nehalem they are competing with Sandy Bridge or even Ivy Bridge.

/rant

they have been saying 2011 for most of this product line for almost 2 years now. They are still churing out great budget performaers, thuban, phenom 11 x4 etc etc etc. Intel has them in some applications currently but its not that big of a margin until you put a $300 cpu up against intels top of the line $999 options.

So the hyperbole can stop now.

Secondly. I myself am looking at sb heavily becuase I wonder how mature bulldozer really is. It looks to have some very significant improvments over existing cpu designs in a number of key areas. Hard to say.

Or we can all work with our mostly overpower machines for another year or so and be happy and wait to see the BD numbers. I expect those numbers around january for BD stuff.

So calm down. the worlds not gonna end and AMD will keep delivering the parts they make now at a great price point without directly getting into intels face.

Although I really think BD has something for Intels top architectures.

 

[Vesku]

I generally agree with your sentiment ModestGamer, however, Intel is really hitting the X6 1090T hard with their i7 950 price drop. AMD has to fight a holding action in the $200-300 price bracket for 6-9 months until Bulldozer starts shipping.

 

[ModestGamer]

I generally agree with your sentiment ModestGamer, however, Intel is really hitting the X6 1090T hard with their i7 950 price drop. AMD has to fight a holding action in the $200-300 price bracket for 6-9 months until Bulldozer starts shipping.

AMD has enough room to drop the thuban 50% but they have not needed to so far.its the same size as a phenom 2 4x IIRC. They have a ton of 1035t in OEM systems right now. Looks like AMD is making some headway in OEM systems BTW. I'd like to see the sale numbers myself.AMD will be just fine. They are banking on shipping laptop products late this year. Thats going to be a big fight with intel.

To me it looks like AMD kind of reinvented itself the last 2-3 years whereas intel is building itself into a nigthmare position of architecture. There is only so far they can keep refining the same basic x86 core before they hit a gaint roadblock. They are pretty much there with SB as far as I can tell. Aside from high clocks and HT they are stuck in the design format they are in for at leat 2 generations.

AMD i think decided to design a more forward looking architecture. In all reality. A very good plan even if the short term is painful the long term benefits should be more then worth it.

 

[Vesku]

Perhaps it's this renewed OEM success that has spurred Intel into bringing i7s into the ~300 bracket.

 

[ModestGamer]

Perhaps it's this renewed OEM success that has spurred Intel into bringing i7s into the ~300 bracket.

even so AMD has room to drop prices further. They also have alot of very appealing OEM oriented product comming.

I say when AMD claims 2011 is the year they plan to come out swinging. every indication in design and sale moves points to just that.

I say keep a sharp eye to AMD. they are working a long and well thought out plan of strategic market move etc.

 

[Martimus]

AMD has enough room to drop the thuban 50% but they have not needed to so far.its the same size as a phenom 2 4x IIRC.

It is the same TDP as the Phenom 2 X4, but considering it is on the same process with additional features it doesn't make any sense for it to be the same size. It was reported to be ~346mm^2, compared to 258mm^2 for the Phenom II X4 965.
(Source:http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/its_official_amd_confirms_hexacore_thuban_cpu)
(Second source:http://www.lostcircuits.com/mambo//...ask=view&id=81&Itemid=42&limit=1&limitstart=1)

 

[Janooo]

Some more info here: http://www.hardware-infos.com/news.php?news=3681