Fury/x Voltage Unlock Incoming

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Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,547
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AMD claimed the AIO is capable of 500w of cooling. And we need to remember the Fury X board have dual 8 pins, 375w specs.

So the board power when OCed is: [(1.453x1.453)/(1.2 x 1.2)]x(1242/1050)x275 = 477 watts.

477 watts is in the cooler's capacity while not being too far from dual 8 pins specifications (remember 295x2?)

What's the big fuss about Fury X can't handle 1.45 volts?

I am pretty sure they are saying the AIO can handle 500watts because a slightly modified version of the cooler will be on their likely 500watt dual Fury Card.

Its kind of like when they said they have the fastest GPU on the market, when that comment was clearly about the dual Fury card and not Fury X.
 
Dec 30, 2004
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For computer components the majority of it ends up as heat. Some is used for fans of course.

I am an electrical engineer, took both intro and and advanced semiconductor device fundamentals courses. Typically I remember 'important' pivotal facts like this/they stick out to me as intrinsically valuable. Can you source this or explain why? Maybe I'm just getting dumb, TBH.

Let me give a go myself: I can't think of many reasons why it wouldn't all get converted to heat. There's nowhere else for it to go-- the power dissipated across a junction is equivalent to the voltage * current, so...yeah...all of it would go to heat.
 
Dec 30, 2004
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I believe they're an inept company... plain and simple. Don't confuse me belief of their ineptitude to actually provide tools to OC well with a thought that I actually believe it doesn't OC well.

Simply put, the company does stupid things. I don't need to explain that statement any further really you can just use your memory.

So no, I expect the card to OC at least decently. OC dream? Who knows, but I expect it to be ok. I just at this point my expectations of AMD are actually this low that AMD launching a card, claiming it to be an OC dream, the card OCing decently, and not launching with OC capabilities is something AMD would do. It's literally not something that would surprise me.

That's just where I'm at and that's really not a point you want your consumer to be at where a used sub R9 290 is still something your consumer has to think about because they just don't really trust you.

You might be right, I've been thinking something similar.

This whole business of 'forward looking architecture' doesn't make any business sense, because gamers are going to buy what's good NOW.

unless, of course, they're planning to stick with GCN for a while longer. I guess that could explain that decision.

Anyways, my point being they need to release an architecture that's good now because most people are n99b idiots who just buy whatever benches best and don't honestly evaluate GPU architecture or have the credentials to forecast what will be a better architecture in 3 years time.

It probably was them planning to stick with GCN for 3 more years, in which case I can forgive them. However, hiring two engineers to manage memory issues NOW is way too late-- they needed to do that 2 years ago when they decided Fury X was going to be 4GB only, and they needed to do that by promoting or shifting resources within, not hiring new guys and asking them to do it, having had no exposure to the driver architecture or implementation.

But for overclocking, yeah, I can see that they produced the hardware for it but didn't have the communication to make it happen on the software side.
Lately my greatest theories on how to efficiently run a company would be having a few highly paid full time low-levels in each section of the company who observe everything and report their opinion to the CEO, who then is basically required to implement their direction.

Before I get to that, let me touch on synergies, which probably would have solved this OCing problem: if you were friends with someone in the Catalyst software development side of things, you eat lunch with him on Fridays-- eventually over the course of 2 year dev cycle it would become apparent 'no, I haven't been given the specs to implement the voltage control on the Fury X, in fact no one has even mentioned it, we just assumed it would be same as the 290x' 'no, it's not' 'ok, lets schedule a meeting with Bob and get this worked out'.

ok, returning to CEO idea-- for example, the low level embedded engineer who's been there for 8 years needs to be friends with the driver architecture engineer who needs to be friends with a game dev, and between them they would probably be able to cook up the future AMD's GPUs need to go better than the CEO could. Actually, scratch this idea, this is probably what happens to some extent, just abstracted through management. I think what I'm getting at is this: I have sometimes had visionary ideas, which if implemented correctly, could make someone a lot of money. Most don't implement correctly, which is why when someone does, like Apple, they get so far.
 
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RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
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In response to your response...

saying furyX is an overclockers dream kind of implies they have special knowledge on the matter. But you are telling me that tools do not exist and that is why we don't see furyX being much of an overclocker at all. But if tools don't exist, how could Huddy or AMD be making statements like that. They wouldn't know, there are no tools........

Yeah,
Sounds ridiculous to me. AMD knows exactly how their gpu works. They set the voltage, it's not a mystery. They know exactly how it works.

The voltage was locked down, that's my guess. People like unwinder are trying to work around it and others will find a way to mod the bios, but the lack of voltage control is not accidental.

Given that the OEMs didn't deviate at ALL on voltages tells me AMD has tied their hands on the voltage, and there has to be a reason for that. To say the card is an overclocker's dream and then give absolutely no way to realize that dream is pretty asinine.
 

casiofx

Senior member
Mar 24, 2015
369
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Fury X's coolant mixture:

post-190257-1437646623_thumb.jpg


cooling plate:
post-190257-1437646761_thumb.jpg


Source
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=3618815&view=findpost&p=75541805
 

shady28

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2004
2,520
397
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I am an electrical engineer, took both intro and and advanced semiconductor device fundamentals courses. Typically I remember 'important' pivotal facts like this/they stick out to me as intrinsically valuable. Can you source this or explain why? Maybe I'm just getting dumb, TBH.

Let me give a go myself: I can't think of many reasons why it wouldn't all get converted to heat. There's nowhere else for it to go-- the power dissipated across a junction is equivalent to the voltage * current, so...yeah...all of it would go to heat.

Yeah that should be well known. Mechanical systems like fans do the same thing of course, it's called friction. First law of thermodynamics, etc.

But for those that like a chart, here's a space heater vs PC -

Methodology :
During our testing, we found that both the PC and space heater drew varying amounts of power depending on how hot they were and how fast the fans were spinning. To try to keep both the space heater and PC drawing the same wattage, we took regular power draw readings and used MSI Afterburner to adjust the GPU power draw on the gaming PC to match the space heater's power draw. With this method, we were able to match the PC's power draw to the space heater's within a few watts and ended the tests with exactly the same total kWhr of power used.


pic_disp.php
 

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,457
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not true, actually. we don't know exactly how much gets wasted as heat and how much is used as work pinching channels in transistors and such

I don't understand what you're trying to tell me. It could be because I've not taken any intro and advanced semiconductor device fundamentals courses. I am saying that I'm under the impression that if my PC is consuming 600 watts of power, that it is dumping the equivalent amount of power into the room as heat, whether it's just wasted because of component inefficiency or used for work. 600 watts in is 600 watts out. Is that incorrect?
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
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According to the source
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Gaming-PC-vs-Space-Heater-Efficiency-511/, that gaming PC consists of 3xSLI Titans. Kinda makes you wonder what the heck is going on inside a space heater... :p It kinda makes sense though. If you take any ten devices that all draw 1000Watts, they will all output the same amount of heat. The only exception would be whatever amount of that power is transformed into radio waves. So a microwave or a radio transmitter would heat a room less than say a toaster or a hairdryer. I guess it gets more complicated if you take a 1000W freezer and run it with the door open, but I'm not even gonna go there.
 
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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
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According to the source
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Gaming-PC-vs-Space-Heater-Efficiency-511/, that gaming PC consists of 3xSLI Titans. Kinda makes you wonder what the heck is going on inside a space heater... :p It kinda makes sense though. If you take any ten devices that all draw 1000Watts, they will all output the same amount of heat. The only exception would be whatever amount of that power is transformed into radio waves. So a microwave or a radio transmitter would heat a room less than say a toaster or a hairdryer. I guess it gets more complicated if you take a 1000W freezer and run it with the door open, but I'm not even gonna go there.

Why not? An open freezer would put out the same amount of heat in a room if the door were closed and you measured the motor and anything else other than the coils. All a freezer does is take heat from one system and move it to another. If you open the freezer door, then you combine the 2 systems. Net energy is the same and so any power drawn would be converted into heat.
 

flynnsk

Member
Sep 24, 2005
98
0
0
Given that the OEMs didn't deviate at ALL on voltages tells me AMD has tied their hands on the voltage, and there has to be a reason for that. To say the card is an overclocker's dream and then give absolutely no way to realize that dream is pretty asinine.

Not much different from TitanX launch either..
 

x3sphere

Senior member
Jul 22, 2009
722
24
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www.exophase.com
Not much different from TitanX launch either..

The difference is Titan X could still OC well at stock voltages. Not hard to hit 20% OC on the reference cooler either, so long as you are willing to deal with noise.

Modded bios were also figured out pretty quickly for those that wanted to push the voltage on water.

It's been a month since Fury X release now with seemingly no progress on the OC front. Apart from the updates from Unwinder, AMD is completely silent.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
Apart from the updates from Unwinder, AMD is completely silent.

I'll say this again (and again, until someone gives an explanation telling me my line of thinking is wrong):

The OEMs would have had custom BIOSes if AMD had allowed them to. It should not be hard for OEMs to modify the voltage in BIOS. That the OEMs did not do this tells me that they're blocked either from editing the BIOS at all, or specifically blocked from changing the voltages (either by lack of tools, which the OEMs should be rushing to fix, or by policy/agreements with AMD preventing them from doing so.)

It is VERY telling to me that no OEM is upping the voltages. Maybe that's because AMD doesn't want to deal with more failures. Maybe it's because they know that overvolting the card will result in problems. I don't know.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,348
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I'll say this again (and again, until someone gives an explanation telling me my line of thinking is wrong):

The OEMs would have had custom BIOSes if AMD had allowed them to. It should not be hard for OEMs to modify the voltage in BIOS. That the OEMs did not do this tells me that they're blocked either from editing the BIOS at all, or specifically blocked from changing the voltages (either by lack of tools, which the OEMs should be rushing to fix, or by policy/agreements with AMD preventing them from doing so.)

It is VERY telling to me that no OEM is upping the voltages. Maybe that's because AMD doesn't want to deal with more failures. Maybe it's because they know that overvolting the card will result in problems. I don't know.
You can say your line of reasoning over and over again go ahead. Even quote random posts like you've done now just to restate your opinion. Doesn't make it any more correct. We've heard you, I think you're so ridiculously wrong it feels like I'm going to get an infraction picking apart your post but I mean we'll find out soon?

But it's been confirmed that voltage tools were incoming for awhile, you're welcome to ignore it though and go with your line of reasoning lol.....

The sad thing is you end your post with "I don't know". Youre right you don't. Yet you think spamming your opinion(because it's so much more important than ours) is acceptable when you say you don't know....

And this is just a snippet of the pages I can write and am attempting to stop myself as I started with a 1 liner and have since double or triple edited now into this...
 
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chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,457
63
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I'll say this again (and again, until someone gives an explanation telling me my line of thinking is wrong):

The OEMs would have had custom BIOSes if AMD had allowed them to. It should not be hard for OEMs to modify the voltage in BIOS. That the OEMs did not do this tells me that they're blocked either from editing the BIOS at all, or specifically blocked from changing the voltages (either by lack of tools, which the OEMs should be rushing to fix, or by policy/agreements with AMD preventing them from doing so.)

It is VERY telling to me that no OEM is upping the voltages. Maybe that's because AMD doesn't want to deal with more failures. Maybe it's because they know that overvolting the card will result in problems. I don't know.

So wait a sec. It's "VERY telling" that no OEM has raised voltage on reference cards, or that they've not provided custom BIOSes for reference cards? They're all reference cards so far with the exception of the Asus Strix model, so what exactly are you talking about?

This whole post of yours is VERY telling to me that you are looking for any little thing to bash AMD. You know which card launch was the same, with no voltage control on reference cards? GTX680. It took **gasp** custom cards for custom BIOSes and voltage control to finally be out in the wild. Were you whining about it then, too? I swear, some of you people lose your minds and memories with each new GPU launch.
 
Dec 30, 2004
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Yeah that should be well known. Mechanical systems like fans do the same thing of course, it's called friction. First law of thermodynamics, etc.

But for those that like a chart, here's a space heater vs PC -

Methodology :



pic_disp.php

yeah, answered my own question there :cool:
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
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I don't understand what you're trying to tell me. It could be because I've not taken any intro and advanced semiconductor device fundamentals courses. I am saying that I'm under the impression that if my PC is consuming 600 watts of power, that it is dumping the equivalent amount of power into the room as heat, whether it's just wasted because of component inefficiency or used for work. 600 watts in is 600 watts out. Is that incorrect?

in this case, no, you are not incorrect. When I wrote that post I was saying 'we don't actually know'. When I looked at it more, I realized there was nowhere else significant for it to go. AKA, we -do- know.

For example, in the case of an ICE, 25-30% of the energy goes to actual motion, the rest is lost to heat and friction.

However, in a PC, there are very few other components besides the digital data that's being computed. Fans creating air motion instead of heat, but they're using an order of magnitude less energy than the electronics themselves.
 
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Dec 30, 2004
12,553
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According to the source
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Gaming-PC-vs-Space-Heater-Efficiency-511/, that gaming PC consists of 3xSLI Titans. Kinda makes you wonder what the heck is going on inside a space heater... :p It kinda makes sense though. If you take any ten devices that all draw 1000Watts, they will all output the same amount of heat. The only exception would be whatever amount of that power is transformed into radio waves. So a microwave or a radio transmitter would heat a room less than say a toaster or a hairdryer. I guess it gets more complicated if you take a 1000W freezer and run it with the door open, but I'm not even gonna go there.

in a space heater-- it's just agitating electrons to create blackbody radiation. very inefficient. Heat pumps (your HVAC unit) are ~3.5x more efficient.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
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in a space heater-- it's just agitating electrons to create blackbody radiation. very inefficient. Heat pumps (your HVAC unit) are ~3.5x more efficient.

Exactly, but their energy goes mostly into mechanical work (compressor and blower) and not to releasing thermal energy. They move heat from one place to the other, but they don't convert their input energy into heat (except for waste heat in the mechanical parts).

Electronics use current flowing through tiny wires across resistive connections. The result will be heat, and that heat will be nearly equal to the electrical energy input. The only other methods for it to be used would be light (low percentage), mechanical work/friction (moderately low percentage) and EM radiaton (again, low percentage).

When considering power use, you have to consider everything coming in and everything going out. It's all going somewhere* and is measurable in a closed system.

* Batteries are the exception here. Battery inefficiency is lost as heat, but that's the only heat you will get out of it. The actual transferred load goes directly into the battery chemistry for later use.
 
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railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
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Someone managed to overclock the HBM to 1ghz - 100% overlock http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?p=400893#post400893

I guess that would eliminate any latency issues HBM got at 500mhz.

Mother of god them results! Haha, that's one way to OC a Fury. I'd love to see how much power it consumes.

Kudos to them guys! I love seeing experiments like these. Wonder why HBM is clocked so moderately low. Clearly you get some nice results when you can OC both the core and mem high enough. And Fury X has a freaking CLC, let it spread its freaking legs!
 

monstercameron

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2013
3,818
1
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Mother of god them results! Haha, that's one way to OC a Fury. I'd love to see how much power it consumes.

Kudos to them guys! I love seeing experiments like these. Wonder why HBM is clocked so moderately low. Clearly you get some nice results when you can OC both the core and mem high enough. And Fury X has a freaking CLC, let it spread its freaking legs!

then the forums trolls and the biased media will complain about power consumption. Lose, Lose if I'd ever seen one myself.