[Fudzilla] New Nintendo Wii2 for 2012 using AMD R700 GPU

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akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
6,210
2,551
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IMHO Nintendo has no need to put out an overly powerful system. Keep in mind that regardless of when and what Sony or Microsoft puts out as their next consoles they'll still be restricted by the 1080p resolution. We're also at the point where there is diminishing returns for more powerful hardware. Nintendo is in a pretty good position to release a console and not get burned too much by MS or Sony in terms of hardware power.

The next big jump will be full photo realism and that won't be for a while. Don't get me wrong, GPU's and CPU's have continued to improve but the jump in power just isn't as noticeable to the average layperson. This is even more evident by consoles that have a set hard ceiling of 1920x1080 at this time. If Nintendo just aims for a point where they can get top of the line heavy action games to perform at 30fps minimum at 1080p with no slowdown then 95% of the games buying population will not notice any difference in power even if MS or Sony can do it at 60fps for their next consoles.

Assuming AMD is the maker of the GPU for Nintendo, and there's no news to the contrary, AMD would be wise to get off their asses and get a decent physics API out for the new Nintendo console. I know they're working on something based on Bullet Physics. They have a premier showcase to get themselves back in the driver seat in the GPU wars. If it's just another ho-hum graphics update then AMD loses a prime chance to boost their mindshare.

Nintendo is likely only showing early "bullshots" of the console at E3 and they might even have a few tech demos but it's unlikely to be running on any actual alpha or beta hardware. Likely demoing is all they're doing at this point and maybe making a few game announcements. Nintendo will likely cut off all news until E3 next year when they actually show a working hardware and the next Nintendo console will be released in the second half of 2012.

Considering the estimated time frame of the next Nintendo consoles release, it is a good bet that its GPU will be a candidate for manufacturing on a 28nm process. This means AMD can cram a decent amount of power in a relatively small space. I'd say enough to reach their goal in making a GPU powerful enough to describe the situation above but cheap enough to be economical for Nintendo's needs. The only snag is that TSMC doesn't expect 28nm to be more than about 2-3% of its business in Q4 2011. Again, assuming a Q4 2012 release for the next Nintendo console that means that AMD won't need any significant production ramp up of console GPU's until late Q2 in the June or July time frame and allowing time for Nintendo to stock pile a decent amount of consoles for a late October or early November holiday release.

Nintendo will likely couple it with a quad core processor from IBM to keep backwards compatibility with their previous consoles so no AMD CPU in there. There will probably be a new "gimick" to pull in casual gamers but the difference between the Wii and the next Nintendo console will be that this one is decently powerful enough that developers will have little to complain about. I think all this is achievable with a $300-350 price point. Nintendo is very cost conscious and have seen how previous pricey consoles (3DO, SNK
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
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I agree, akugami.

I don't see photo-realistic graphics benefiting Nintendo. They seem to do well with a
"cartooney" look to their games.

I'll be happy if the system can render Toy Story 3 quality graphics in 1080P. IMO that's what they should be striving for.
 

Dark Shroud

Golden Member
Mar 26, 2010
1,576
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How long is it gonna take for these console makers to wake up and smell the coffee?

Just give us a console with a 6 core Tegra 4 like chip, with a mouse and a keyboard, some type of integrated operating system to be on the internet like IE9/Firefox/Chrome, so we can email, go on You Tube, Facebook ect. ect. ect. Then add a decent gamepad and/or motion type controller. Add some AAA gaming titles with a terabye of storage, blueray RW drive and they can make a boat load of cash. :)

I'd pay 600$ for that, anyone else?

Hell no, I'll stick with PowerPC that has enough power to render the games on the fly as needed. The current consoles can't even do full 1080p on the heaver visual games. There is no way in hell an ARM soc would be able to handle that. The next consoles from Sony & MS will probably be PowerPC based APU style systems with AMD GPU cores. That's what the new slim 360 already has in it.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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Hell no, I'll stick with PowerPC that has enough power to render the games on the fly as needed. The current consoles can't even do full 1080p on the heaver visual games. There is no way in hell an ARM soc would be able to handle that. The next consoles from Sony & MS will probably be PowerPC based APU style systems with AMD GPU cores. That's what the new slim 360 already has in it.

I said 6 core Tegra like processor, not ARM. BUt last I heard a dual core tegra 2 can play games or at least video @ 1080p.Tegra 3 will be a quadcore released in a few months, I suspect a Tegra 4 will be at least 6 or 8 cores running on 2 watts of juice and be released next year. If a xbox 720/playstation4 won't be released untill 2014,I don't see why we couldn't see a 8 core based ARM chip running in one or at least a portable version :thumbsup:

Even a ipad 2 can allready game at 1080p with its hdmi connector on a TV.

Without arguing the peticulars, would you pay 600$ for my fantasy system?
 
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Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
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Nintendo is by_far the most profitable of the three big players, when you take only the consoles and titles into account, and ignore the rest of the business. I think Microsoft may actually still be losing money on the Xbox project overall, though I do think Sony is probably in the black considering the entire PS history.

What Nintendo wants is a cheap to manufacture, reliable (returns cost $$$), and moderately capable unit that they can launch at a low MSRP, probably coming in just a little higher than what Wii sells for now, certainly no higher than Wii's launch price. This gets them into a lot of homes quickly, doesn't lose money on the hardware, and while it doesn't make the hardcore gamers happy, is more than enough for 90% of the casual gamers and younger players.

One thing Nintendo has never forgotten is the $$$ to be made by selling games that even 4 and 5 year olds can play. For every pricey Halo game that costs megabucks to produce, Nintendo can throw out another Mario Party release and make bank with a fraction of the development costs.

I think the Xbox, PS, and PC setups have the more mature gaming scene covered ad nauseum. Nintendo stands alone for the more casual gamer and for kids. I think this is a nice balance.
 

Soccerman06

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2004
5,830
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Just give us a console with a 6 core Tegra 4 like chip, with a mouse and a keyboard, some type of integrated operating system to be on the internet like IE9/Firefox/Chrome, so we can email, go on You Tube, Facebook ect. ect. ect. Then add a decent gamepad and/or motion type controller. Add some AAA gaming titles with a terabye of storage, blueray RW drive and they can make a boat load of cash. :)

I'd pay 600$ for that, anyone else?

Are you trolling?
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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I think the Xbox, PS, and PC setups have the more mature gaming scene covered ad nauseum. Nintendo stands alone for the more casual gamer and for kids. I think this is a nice balance

I totally agree, but I would bet there are more Wii's in the closet collecting dust then xbox's and playstations combined.
 

Soccerman06

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2004
5,830
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no. :confused: Who would I be trolling Dreamcast lovers? :)

Well without getting too into it, ARM said the A15 would be as capable as a ps3 gpu wise is some aspect. Whatever that means idk, but based on what we do know about a A15, a quad core 2.5ghz version will be equivalent to a culv c2d. Thats not saying much. So going off that, a A20 or whatever is after the A15, we could guess it would be somewhere between a i3 330um and whatever the lowest ulv sb chip is. GPU wise the tegra3 is about a Ge-force 7800 gt which is equivalent to what now? So next gen could be a 9800 gt, just guessing.

So you want the next gen system to be a i3 330um and a 9800gt. What progress we have made in the last 5 years. ;) You could easily build a computer for that $600 of yours and have it be much better, like a sb i5 and a 6850 1 gig ram br drive and it would easily trounce that ARM thing.

incase you were trolling, my bad.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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So you want the next gen system to be a i3 330um and a 9800gt. What progress we have made in the last 5 years.

Well lets just say a cpu/gpu in line with a 22nm sandy and 5870, just a round about, it certainly does not need to be Arm based.

A system with all those features is what I'm looking for. I was not looking to get into specifics on what kind of cpu/gpu it would use.
A console with a mouse and keyboard and internet capable would be especially nice.

Kinda like a netbook with 1 tb of storage, a blue ray player/burner, and the gaming capabilities of the future xbox 720 with a mouse and keyboard and other controller add ons, for 600$.

Thats my dream console, I wouldn't have to upgrade it, just throw it away in 6 years and buy the more powerfull xbox XXXXX. :)

With that, there would really be no need for me to have a home computer. I would have a true multimedia/communications/gaming hub in my living room.
 
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tigersty1e

Golden Member
Dec 13, 2004
1,963
0
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good move on nintendo's part. they seem to be going with the small ball strategy of releasing new hardware more often instead of releasing monsters every 10 years.

you want dx9 to compete with the other consoles...dx10.1 is fine too. no need for dx11. it would be a waste as most devs won't develop for the wii2 only. then when dx11 comes in with the other 2 players, wii3 can come out.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
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I totally agree, but I would bet there are more Wii's in the closet collecting dust then xbox's and playstations combined.

True enough, and I'd bet an absolutely huge number of PS3s are relegated to pure BluRay duty. My mother-in-law has one, lol. Of course it just plays her movies, mostly dvds and a few blu-rays she's gotten over time. She gets the weirdest stuff on blu-ray, totally stuff that doesn't need 1080p, but whatever.
 

cusideabelincoln

Diamond Member
Aug 3, 2008
3,275
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One thing Nintendo has never forgotten is the $$$ to be made by selling games that even 4 and 5 year olds can play. For every pricey Halo game that costs megabucks to produce, Nintendo can throw out another Mario Party release and make bank with a fraction of the development costs.

I think the Xbox, PS, and PC setups have the more mature gaming scene covered ad nauseum. Nintendo stands alone for the more casual gamer and for kids. I think this is a nice balance.

Nintendo's move isn't necessarily motivated to recapture the "mature" audience. It is a co-operative goal. First they need to get third parties on board. Third parties aren't even trying anymore on the Wii. And that is a major problem. You have to have at least adequate, if not good, third party support to be successful.

Nintendo sees a hole with their current business and they are going to fix it. They need to release a console that is significantly more powerful than current consoles to have any kind of longevity with the system and to keep third parties on board even when Sony and MS release their successors.

And what will keep third parties on board is if their games sell. Their games will sell if people buy them. So Nintendo is not going to stand alone and provide games for kids. That would be a stupid business strategy. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever a console can't provide content for every gamer. Nintendo's first party games cater to a very wide range of gamers; they do not only make games for casuals or kids. If third parties are able to bring their games over, without having to make huge sacrifices -- Ghostbusters, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Prince of Persia on the Wii were completely different games than HD counterparts, and of course many games never made it over to the Wii -- then this console will complete.

Also I really hate the terms "hardcore" and "casual". They are misnomers in most of the way I see people use them. Sony and Microsoft are already trying to make their consoles cater to everyone with the addition of Move and Kinect. This trend will continue. Only Nintendo is going to beat them to the punch.
 
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StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,956
1,268
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If the PS4/New Xbox don't have at least a 7850 I'm going to cry.

I wish the Wii2 would use a 5770.
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
We have to keep in mind that the Wii, while playing games, consumes only ~20W of power. This means Nintendo has a lot of room to play with but I seriously doubt they'll suddenly jump into 360/PS3 territory of ~200+W.

Even liberally fast clockspeed estimates of a triple core IBM CPU + R700 GPU would easily be under 100W as long as they're produced on a modern fabrication process.

How long is it gonna take for these console makers to wake up and smell the coffee?

Just give us a console with a 6 core Tegra 4 like chip, with a mouse and a keyboard, some type of integrated operating system to be on the internet like IE9/Firefox/Chrome, so we can email, go on You Tube, Facebook ect. ect. ect. Then add a decent gamepad and/or motion type controller. Add some AAA gaming titles with a terabye of storage, blueray RW drive and they can make a boat load of cash. :)

I'd pay 600$ for that, anyone else?

I already have a computer, several of them
 
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Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Or maybe the deliver a nice bump in performance over the Wii while keeping a sub-200 dollar price point. Only this time, they learn from the mistakes of the Wii and produce more than shoddy kiddie games and casual games. :p
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
We have to keep in mind that the Wii, while playing games, consumes only ~20W of power. This means Nintendo has a lot of room to play with but I seriously doubt they'll suddenly jump into 360/PS3 territory of ~200+W.

Even liberally fast clockspeed estimates of a triple core IBM CPU + R700 GPU would easily be under 100W as long as they're produced on a modern fabrication process.


I already have a computer, several of them

Well soon enough your computer is gonna turn into a cell phone with 2 mini usb ports for a mouse and keyboard, and mini hdmi port for a monitor running some windows 8 mobile operating system for internet, playing 3d games all on the 4 inch screen or a 24 inch 1080p tv/monitor. All this in a 2 watt cell phone with graphics as good as a xbox 360. :).

Something like this, with a full operating system, internet capable, with a keyboard and mouse input or gamepad input, and about 3x more powerfull, on your 1080p TV. Then you can put it in your pocket and use it as a phone.:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzckAfXB5u4&feature=player_embedded#at=17

I think at 3x as powerfull could handle BC2 fairly well at max settings @ 1080p? :)

I wanna see a 110 watt console built on that kind of technology 2x as powerfull as a xbox 360 by 2014. I don't care who makes it, Nintendo, microsoft, or Sony. Is that asking to much?:thumbsup:
 
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wahdangun

Golden Member
Feb 3, 2011
1,007
148
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How long is it gonna take for these console makers to wake up and smell the coffee?

Just give us a console with a 6 core Tegra 4 like chip, with a mouse and a keyboard, some type of integrated operating system to be on the internet like IE9/Firefox/Chrome, so we can email, go on You Tube, Facebook ect. ect. ect. Then add a decent gamepad and/or motion type controller. Add some AAA gaming titles with a terabye of storage, blueray RW drive and they can make a boat load of cash. :)

I'd pay 600$ for that, anyone else?

hmm basically its the first PS3, you can even install linux in it.
 

wahdangun

Golden Member
Feb 3, 2011
1,007
148
106
The R700 series rumor hasn't been confirmed, nor any of the specs. Even still devkits could ship with such a GPU with production systems running a 28 nm Southern Islands (Something in the Juniper range of capability) once it's ready from AMD. I think AMD would prefer that course of action, since those GPUs are founded on 28 nm, R700 was founded on 55 nm (accept 4770 on 40 nm). A simple node reduction is not that simple with a chip and usually means teething and yield problems until it is matured and the kinks are worked out. Chips are typically designed to use a specific process in mind, so I think using a 40 nm 4770 for devkits would be a good idea to get development going until they can get a S. Islands chip in later devkits and all production systems.

I'm still holding out for a Fusion APU for the central processor + dedicated GPU like RV770, Juniper, or S Island equivalent. A triple core PPC doesn't interest me at all. Yes, it means easier code porting between all the consoles, but unless it's Power6 or 7 based, it won't be anything ground breaking. Llano is only 45W TDP, 4 x86 cores, and GPGPU capable. It would certainly benefit the PC side of things too, as the code developed for running GPGPU processes on the Llano in the Wii 2 could be ported over to PC titles when ran on AMD hardware.

nah, I don't think Wii will use X86 CPU, because it can be modded really easy like the original X-box
 

cusideabelincoln

Diamond Member
Aug 3, 2008
3,275
46
91
Or maybe the deliver a nice bump in performance over the Wii while keeping a sub-200 dollar price point. Only this time, they learn from the mistakes of the Wii and produce more than shoddy kiddie games and casual games.

You have no soul if you can't enjoy Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros, Smash Bros, Metroid Prime, Twilight Princess, Donkey Kong Country, and I would consider you gravely mistaken to label them as shoddy, kiddie or casual.
 

Arzachel

Senior member
Apr 7, 2011
903
76
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You have no soul if you can't enjoy Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros, Smash Bros, Metroid Prime, Twilight Princess, Donkey Kong Country, and I would consider you gravely mistaken to label them as shoddy, kiddie or casual.

And Monster Hunter Tri, Boom Blox, The House of the Dead: Overkill, No More Heroes, Sin & Punishment, Zack & Wiki etc.

The "hardcore/casual" divide seems silly to me. Is CoD:MW2 hardcore or casual? It might feature manly marines, manshooting and the world's brownest colour palette, but I'd say its still a casual game, just like Madden.
 

Borealis7

Platinum Member
Oct 19, 2006
2,901
205
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on topic, i think producing old 55nm R700 chips right now would not be cost efficient for AMD so they must be talking about acquiring old stock (which must be huge then) or producing them on a newer node. in any case, Wii games were never polygon-intensive due to cartoony graphics so even a weak 4xxx could handle them easily.
 

cusideabelincoln

Diamond Member
Aug 3, 2008
3,275
46
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And Monster Hunter Tri, Boom Blox, The House of the Dead: Overkill, No More Heroes, Sin & Punishment, Zack & Wiki etc.

I only listed first party games for a reason. His statement implied Nintendo and only Nintendo were making Wii games. Now that isn't really happening, but even if it did, I would still take his statement to be incredulous. And then you consider that third parties do make some not-shoddy games, and that just makes it even more incredulous.

on topic, i think producing old 55nm R700 chips right now would not be cost efficient for AMD so they must be talking about acquiring old stock (which must be huge then) or producing them on a newer node. in any case, Wii games were never polygon-intensive due to cartoony graphics so even a weak 4xxx could handle them easily.

Metroid. Cartoony. What? Galaxy and Brawl had a lot of nice effects; they definitely push the Wii's hardware.

Most games are designed so as to make the system not look so bad next to the HD. Plus it's their style. It does not mean these kind of games can't take advantage of more horsepower.
 

Blitzvogel

Platinum Member
Oct 17, 2010
2,012
23
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nah, I don't think Wii will use X86 CPU, because it can be modded really easy like the original X-box

Unless they use a more proprietary custom design from AMD that would not be available for the computer industry. I think from all the Sony BS, we've learned that hackers are going to break into the system no matter what. Focus on delivering good content to customers, and business will take care of itself. It's not like a PowerPC based console cannot be broken into.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,938
6
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on topic, i think producing old 55nm R700 chips right now would not be cost efficient for AMD so they must be talking about acquiring old stock (which must be huge then) or producing them on a newer node. in any case, Wii games were never polygon-intensive due to cartoony graphics so even a weak 4xxx could handle them easily.

An HD4870 can manage 1920x1200 with 4xAA and give 26fps in Crysis.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/304

Knock down the AA and you have a system that's capable of "fast enough" frame rates for non-3D gaming even at 1080p, assuming that there's less overhead for the hardware.

You don't need a GTX580 in a console when you're only aiming at a certain maximum resolution, and when the hardware can be used more efficiently and games can be heavily tweaked.
Sure, Crysis is a 2007 PC game, but it's still miles beyond anything on consoles currently, and even beyond its own sequel. If Nintendo offered something which could manage Crysis level graphics at acceptable performance, it would be sufficient for at least a few years.