nitromullet
Diamond Member
- Jan 7, 2004
- 9,031
- 36
- 91
Right on... Although, I'm still considering the GTX 280 a $620-650 card at the moment. The article mentions that $90 is the price drop to its partners. We might not see that drop right away.
I also wonder if NV/NV partners would end up with some consumer backlash if they drop the retail GTX 280 prices too quickly. You have to consider the fact that most people who already purchased a GTX 280 are probably pretty loyal NVIDIA customers, and dropping the price of the card almost $100 two weeks after launch would probably make some people feel a little ripped off.
As far as the GTX 260 goes, a $30 price cut isn't really worth much discussion. A cut needs to be more than 10% to be worthwhile IMO... My local sales tax on a 260 would be more than $30.
Eh, I think they just underestimated their competition and didn't realize how bad the economy would be when their part came out. It's not like it was designed overnight, after all.
However, these price wars ROCK. New rig this Christmas here we come, woohoo.
However, these price wars ROCK. New rig this Christmas here we come, woohoo.
It's more like they were bent over a barrel and man-loved......and they enjoyed it!
"Thank you, sir, may I have another?"
Originally posted by: Powernick50
Is it just me or has nRollo been pretty quiet lately
He's on vacation until the next refresh from nvidia rolls out
Originally posted by: shabby
Originally posted by: Powernick50
Is it just me or has nRollo been pretty quiet lately
He's on vacation until the next refresh from nvidia rolls out
LOL
:beer:
I know there are price cuts in the works, I don't know how much, so I can't comment much on this topic.
If I did I'd say "As always, the market will set the price of these parts.".
AMD has some very nice competition in the 4850/4870 cards, time will tell which feature set proves more useful to the consumer.
Huge monolithic chip design on a process larger than the competition mean high costs of the GPUs and complex memory architecture means high cost in the boards containing said expensive GPUs
Whereas AMD made a couple of gambles that have paid off thus far including moving down to a smaller fabrication process (although this move dates back to the 3000 line) as well as being a very early adopter of GDDR5.
still outperformed by the 4870, they'd certainly sell, but mostly to people who couldn't find a 4870 in stock
however there's a reason the GTX260 is dropping only $30 - its because its too inefficient of a design to be able to make up that $100 difference
Magusigne
Golden Member
- Nov 21, 2007
- 1,550
- 0
- 76
Yay! Hi Rollo!
Or people with SLI rigs bunnyfubbles.
I just bought a 4870, in the mail at moment. I would still have considered the GTX260@299 though. I'm a little pissed about how highly priced nVidia set these cards though.
Shoved out the 9800GTX's which aren't really that much have improvement.
In the end...Price wars are good. I do believe nVidia did get caught with their pants down however..which is good since they were getting a little cocky with pricing.
Or people with SLI rigs bunnyfubbles.
I just bought a 4870, in the mail at moment. I would still have considered the GTX260@299 though. I'm a little pissed about how highly priced nVidia set these cards though.
Shoved out the 9800GTX's which aren't really that much have improvement.
In the end...Price wars are good. I do believe nVidia did get caught with their pants down however..which is good since they were getting a little cocky with pricing.
Doh! I just realized I misread the info and thought the GTX260 was the one that was dropping by $90. I figured that wasn't too shabby and almost worth considering as an alternative to the 4870 I'm going to get
. Don't laugh at me...I realize it doesn't make any sense that the less expensive card would have a bigger price drop.Your post doesn't consider some factors in the equation:
1. Some people buy based on brand and what the company offers. For example, many people like EVGA's step up program, warranty, and customer service.
2. The market share for discrete graphics at present is pretty lopsided in NVIDIA's favor, and it's hard for a company to swing a huge chunk of market share quickly without a decisive reason to jump. The 4870 is a great card, and a great value, but it doesn't "blow away" the GTX260- it edges it in performance. There is no 9700Pro vs 5800U routing, no 8800GTX vs X1950XTX stomping happening here. What one card will do, the other will as well for the most part. (by this I mean you're not going to play one game at 19X12 on a 4870 and only have it playable at 16X10 on a GTX260)
3. The impact of each card's unique features has yet to be seen. A bunch of DX10.1 games launch, that may swing sales. A bunch of PhysX games launch and ATi doesn't have PhysX, it may swing sales.
4. Some people might prefer the unique features of SLi to the unique features of CF.
5. NVIDIA is in a better position financially to engage in a price war than AMD. They also have more money for marketing.
6. Even when ATi had arguably better cards like the X1900XTs, they didn't dominate the market. The 7900s sold very well. Just look at the Steam Survey if you don't believe me.
44K 7900s, 54K X1900/X1950
Obviously even when ATi had a card that won more benchmarks, and had better AF, and AA +HDR they didn't dominate the market- they sold about 10% more cards.
etc.
Too many factors in play to just say "Everyone on the planet will now buy a 4870 if they're buying a video card, NVIDIA gets scraps.".
n7
Elite Member
- Jan 4, 2004
- 21,281
- 4
- 81
Well, @ $650, they were & will only get scraps...the price drop shows this.
But if they drop them a bit more even, then people will be much more interested.
To me, the really big mistake is how badly they crippled the GTX 260.
It's a completely meaningless card as it's not really any better than the 4870, & that leaves a huge gap to the GTX 280 - the beast to have (assuming no price limits, etc.).
But if they drop them a bit more even, then people will be much more interested.
To me, the really big mistake is how badly they crippled the GTX 260.
It's a completely meaningless card as it's not really any better than the 4870, & that leaves a huge gap to the GTX 280 - the beast to have (assuming no price limits, etc.).
The thing is at launch they were priced appropriately for market position as single GPUs.
The 4870s launched and turned out to be kick ass cards, now the market will adjust.
You're a perfect example. I've never known you to buy based on brand, yet you're not jumping on a 4870, and I'm guessing after your scathing 3870X2 review, you're not saving up for a 4870X2. (at least if the things you didn't like are unchanged)
You'd like a GTX280, and are just waiting for it to be priced at what you're willing to pay. So to you, the GTX280 is the card to have.
Now let's say the rumor is true that NVIDIA gave vendors $90 off the price of a GTX280. Is it conceivable the vendors might knock another few bucks off to jump start sales?
I think so- check this out:
Asus GTX280 at newegg for $579.00 AMIR
I don't know if this is part of the rumored price drop, but it's the cheapest GTX280 I've seen.
The prices are starting to drop due to competition, everybody wins.
1. Yes, NVDA has better board maker warranty and service options.
2-3. The 4870 edges the 260 at $100 less, I'm not sure paying that much extra for the pie in the sky PhysX support is wise. INTC can put pressure on devs to go the Havok route instead, and they have deeper pockets than NVDA.
4. I dont know what you mean here, I would take an INTC chipset over an NVDA chipset for my INTC CPU any day.
5. Yes, NVDA has better marketing, but that affects the non-enthusiast market more, we KNOW that CURRENTLY the 4870 is a much better deal than the gtx 260.
6. Of course NVDA will still sell cards, there are fanboys who could care less about price/performance and only care about brand. And then others prefer a monster single GPU card over crossfire even though crossfire has been scaling better as of late.
n7
Elite Member
- Jan 4, 2004
- 21,281
- 4
- 81
You've finally gotten me pretty much figured out
I just posted a few posts back that the price drops already hit the current NCIX sale.
$530 AR for the BFG GTX 280 OC isn't bad, though it's still a little more than i want to be spending.
I do like the GTX 280's performance.
It's a beast for my resolution.
The power consumption, & tales of overheating & loud fan scare me though, & i do not wanting to be spending extra on an aftermarket cooler at the price they are.
I'd consider aftermarket cooling for the 4870 since it's so much better priced, so they get the edge there, but it doesn't seem they need it.
Basically it's going to come down to a 1 GB 4870 vs. a GTX 280 unless the 4870X2 fixes all the CF drawbacks magically (as you said so accurately).
And the one that gets my money will depend on pricing really, though availability of the 4870 1 GB today for <$350 would very likely win as i don't expect the GTX 280 to hit below $500 for a while.
Cookie Monster
Diamond Member
- May 7, 2005
- 5,161
- 32
- 86
To my knowledge i doubt even an HD4870 can catch up with the GTX280 with 1GB of memory. How so? well the only time you will need that extra framebuffer is when all of a sudden your card crawls at a certain setting which basically indicates that the card has run out of framebuffer. However ATi cards never seemed to actually benefit from large framebuffers at all due to their better memory management/algorithm. Diamond HD3870 1GB model is a good example. Hardly any gain at all.
Another thing ive noticed is that HD4870 performs around ~86% of a GTX280 relative to avg fps at 2560x1600 (this is according to ATs numbers). However when you factor in min fps the GTX seems to be more faster in that regard.
Example Crysis at 1920x1080 DX10 high details
Anyway, maybe AMDs experience in manufacturing chips is showing in ATI's new GPU. From a die shot, the RV770 is very densely packed. Where as G200 is not very much so.
Another thing ive noticed is that HD4870 performs around ~86% of a GTX280 relative to avg fps at 2560x1600 (this is according to ATs numbers). However when you factor in min fps the GTX seems to be more faster in that regard.
Example Crysis at 1920x1080 DX10 high details
Anyway, maybe AMDs experience in manufacturing chips is showing in ATI's new GPU. From a die shot, the RV770 is very densely packed. Where as G200 is not very much so.
http://www.firingsquad.com/har...performance/page14.asp
HL2 episode two 2560x1600x32 8xAA/16xAF
$400 4850CF : 124.8
$300 4870 : 58
$560 GTX280 : 57.8
Oblivion HDR 2560x1600x32 8xAA/16xAF
$400 4850CF : 46.3
$300 4870 : 29.6
$560 GTX280 : 25.9
ET QW 2560x1600x32 8xAA/16xAF
$400 4850CF : 72.6
$300 4870 : 52.4
$560 GTX280 : 51.9
Company of heroes 1920x1200x32 8xAA/16xAF
$400 4850CF : 66.5
$300 4870 : 40.6
$560 GTX280 : 57.7
so cookie, so GTX280 is worth $160 to $260 extra ? it doesn't even have DX10.1 support which games like Diablo 3 and even rumors valve e3 2008 announcement of Dx10.1 support HL2 episode 3 , Portal 2 and Left for dead. Only one thing is going for GTX2XX series is that they support Physicx.
Yeah yeah, spin it all you want, but there was a very similar situation with the 8800GT vs. the 3870. Close competing cards in the same price niche and the 8800GT had the edge performance wise (which allowed it to even retain a higher price) and, surprise surprise, more people ended up buying it vs. the 3870.
Besides, even with a new MSRP of $369 the GTX260 is still very much on the outside looking in, and thus this discussion moot.
it happens to the best of usOriginally posted by: AmberClad
Doh! I just realized I misread the info and thought the GTX260 was the one that was dropping by $90. I figured that wasn't too shabby and almost worth considering as an alternative to the 4870 I'm going to get
I know I'd love to see the GTX260 with a $90 price drop as it would definitely spice things up even moreLack of framebuffer could very well be causing the drastic drop off in minimum frame rates as the drop off is much less severe until AA is enable @ the higher resolutions (a trend that holds true of all the 512MB cards, not just the 4800s)
lopri
Elite Member
- Jul 27, 2002
- 13,316
- 690
- 126
Very interesting logic there.
Anyhow, there were many users who'd been awaiting the true successor to G80 for such a long time. (myself included) And there are evidences that GTX 280's large frame buffer better suits 30" monitors. Still, I couldn't pull the trigger on it for various reasons.
Price is of course one of the big hurdles to GTX 280. I would have purchased one on its launch day if it had been $499. That's still very expensive compared to everything else (Quad-core CPU: ~$200, 4GB Memory:~$100, 500GB HDD: ~$100, etc. ), but a lot more reasonable. At this point, though, I am more inclined to wait for the 55nm revision of GT200 for another round of SLI action. I have had a very positive experience with 7900 GTX SLI at the time when NV's XP drivers were as mature as could be. Compared to that, 8800 GT SLI under Vista has been pretty dismal.
One big kudos to NV for managing to achieve such a low power consumption under idle. That was probably unavoidable considering the size of chip, but definitely a step in the right direction.
Originally posted by: Bateluer
Here's hoping AMD catches Intel off guard with a stealth CPU launch later this year. I'd love to build my next system around an ATI/AMD platform.
Who cares?
Just by what has the best value. I really don't understand brand loyalty.AMD coming out with guns blazing can only help us get even better valueOriginally posted by: RapidSnail
Who cares?
Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: shabby
Originally posted by: Powernick50
Is it just me or has nRollo been pretty quiet lately
He's on vacation until the next refresh from nvidia rolls out
LOL
:beer:
I know there are price cuts in the works, I don't know how much, so I can't comment much on this topic.
If I did I'd say "As always, the market will set the price of these parts.".
AMD has some very nice competition in the 4850/4870 cards, time will tell which feature set proves more useful to the consumer.
time? time will bring new products lol
what's clear is that currently ati cards are the best choice, so nvidia will have to come up with something to counter...at least they have the time
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