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From the "it doesn't exist" Voter Fraud files

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bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
It's not a bad idea. I think the only real fault with it is it's addressing a problem that largely doesn't exist. We don't have any material level of people voting in person multiple times. It's just too inefficient. Far easier just to cast multiple absentee ballots if someone is intent on such fraud. No waiting in line, you have a month or more to cast as many ballots as you want, and you have far less risk of getting caught.
I don't disagree that this problem is probably small, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have that system As the cost would be practically nothing for peace of mind and increased fraud protection. I don't necessarily like absentee voting either. That shit is stupid IMO.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,630
181
106
http://qctimes.com/news/local/government-and-politics/elections/state-files-three-voter-fraud-charges-in-council-bluffs/article_0ef170b6-036f-11e2-a8bd-001a4bcf887a.html



It's too bad Schultz has been hamstrung by a judge, we need more cleaning and checking of the voter roles as by the looks of it there are plenty more who vote without eligibility. But no doubt there will be some who dismiss this and will oppose ANY attempt at making sure our elections are more secure.
Sounds more like a case of Voter Registration failure there. Not checking nationality and residency by local officials as required by law. Please explain how Voter ID would have keep these few from voting without excluding thousands of legal voters?
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,590
169
106
If they really wanted to go after voting fraud, they need to crack down on absentee ballots where someone typically votes in two places.

http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Voter-fraud-findings-question-ID-law-logic-3783305.php
The analysis found that there is more alleged fraud in absentee ballots and voter registration than in any of the other categories. The analysis shows 491 cases of alleged absentee ballot fraud and 400 cases involving registration fraud. Requiring voters to show identification at the polls - the crux of most of the new legislation - would not have prevented those cases.

Of course the Republicans will not. They want to make it harder for certain groups of voters but not other groups.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
0
0
If they really wanted to go after voting fraud, they need to crack down on absentee ballots where someone typically votes in two places.

http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Voter-fraud-findings-question-ID-law-logic-3783305.php
The analysis found that there is more alleged fraud in absentee ballots and voter registration than in any of the other categories. The analysis shows 491 cases of alleged absentee ballot fraud and 400 cases involving registration fraud. Requiring voters to show identification at the polls - the crux of most of the new legislation - would not have prevented those cases.

Of course the Republicans will not. They want to make it harder for certain groups of voters but not other groups.
I agree with you and BFDD about this, they need to clamp a much higher level of security on absentee voting.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,112
13,049
136
Only on the federal level. It's right in the article, these people voted in city elections as well, where their votes would be more statistically significant.

If three were caught, were there more?

Also, serious question: when we talk about purging suspected illegal voters, why does it only disenfranchise democrats? The last I checked, republicans get old and senile too. Did you see Clint Eastwood at the RNC? :D
Yeh, knock 5 zeroes off of .0000002% to get to some significantly meaningful numbers, huh? That's willful blindness.

The rest of it? Repub leaders understand demographics, and have done more than a little bit of research into all this. If they lose 1 vote for every 2 that Dems lose, they come out ahead, and they know it. That's why they're doing it.

In person voter fraud related to picture ID is *statistically insignificant*. Anybody with more than a few grey cells to rub together knows it. Disenfranchisement can easily have a significant impact, with proper targeting, and that's what Repubs are attempting. It's a no-brainer, despite all the dishonest claims to the contrary.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
If they really wanted to go after voting fraud, they need to crack down on absentee ballots where someone typically votes in two places.

http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Voter-fraud-findings-question-ID-law-logic-3783305.php
The analysis found that there is more alleged fraud in absentee ballots and voter registration than in any of the other categories. The analysis shows 491 cases of alleged absentee ballot fraud and 400 cases involving registration fraud. Requiring voters to show identification at the polls - the crux of most of the new legislation - would not have prevented those cases.

Of course the Republicans will not. They want to make it harder for certain groups of voters but not other groups.
It's quite ridiculous that we even allow absentee voting in the first place. IMO that was a system designed with the intent of abuse.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,112
13,049
136
It's quite ridiculous that we even allow absentee voting in the first place. IMO that was a system designed with the intent of abuse.
What you think you know & what you actually know are obviously very different things.

Oregon votes by mail, essentially absentee for everybody, and they love it. They also have one of the highest turnout rates on account of that, too.

Their rate of fraud is also insignificant, with safeguards & strong enforcement of existing statutes-

http://democratherald.com/news/opinion/editorial/article_a3a58f66-548b-11df-ac8e-001cc4c002e0.html
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
What you think you know & what you actually know are obviously very different things.

Oregon votes by mail, essentially absentee for everybody, and they love it. They also have one of the highest turnout rates on account of that, too.

Their rate of fraud is also insignificant, with safeguards & strong enforcement of existing statutes-

http://democratherald.com/news/opinion/editorial/article_a3a58f66-548b-11df-ac8e-001cc4c002e0.html
Wut? Wow it works there, you know what else you can find? Anecdotal evidence that it doesn't work in other areas. IMO it's a system designed to be abused because it is completely impossible to tell who filled out the ballot.

here's just one link of issues in Florida
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02/deisy-cabrera-hialeah-voter-fraud_n_1733665.html

Florida seems to be at the top of the pack when it comes to absentee voter fraud from what I've been able to dig up.

oh look here's another recent one

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/14/688441/republican-candidate-under-investigation-for-absentee-ballot-fraud/?mobile=nc

and another one

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2012/08/24/2174159/phenix-city-women-charged-with.html

how about one more?

http://capoliticalnews.com/2011/11/25/georgia-democrat-party-tied-to-absentee-ballot-fraud-how-about-ca-investigation-as-well/

should I keep this up?

EDIT- OF COURSE I SHOULD!
Here's an article on it from 04
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/13/politics/campaign/13vote.html?_r=0

article from 2000 talking about "modern voter fraud" pointing to a case in 98
http://www.fed-soc.org/publications/detail/voter-fraud-in-our-republic
Article pertaining to said voter fraud of 98 in Miami
http://articles.cnn.com/1998-03-04/politics/miami.mayor_1_suarez-campaign-absentee-ballots-absentee-voter?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS

Article from 1988 pertaining to absentee ballot fraud charges
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-11-07/news/8802130714_1_absentee-ballots-vote-fraud-get-out-the-vote-rally
 
Last edited:

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Here's another thing that gets slipped by. Voter fraud tends to be found in areas of heated contest and less in areas where one Party has a stranglehold. Wonder why that is....
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
It's quite ridiculous that we even allow absentee voting in the first place. IMO that was a system designed with the intent of abuse.
We need it or else large numbers of those in the military cannot vote.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Yes honey, you're a winnar too! Here's your little green ribbon. Now go play, and don't hurt your arm by patting yourself on the back.

Such a special child.
I keep telling you, no ghey sechs until you buy me dinner first. Calling me honey does not get you anywhere without the dinner. I also have to tell you I am not a child, so if that is your fetish you are looking in the wrong place.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
This is the fucking exact thing that is dragging this forum even further down than usual. How is this clown not perma-banned?
Just because you are unhappy that an easily destroyed argument is easily destroyed does not mean the person destroying the sad argument should be banned.

It means the person need a better argument. If you do not like it, no one cares but you.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Oh so it's impossible for us to setup polling places where our military personnel are? lol
How long would they remain open and when would they open? The Navy goes to sea for long periods of time, so would you setup a polling place in every port a Naval vessel might pull into?
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,574
5
81
This is obviously a false equivalency, but I want to point out both reasons why. The first is that the ratio of speeders to overall motorists is orders of magnitude higher than the ratio of fraudulent vs legitimate ballots.

The second is that the argument isn't about simply passing a law that tells you not to do something. No one has advocated taking away the law saying illegals, convicts etc. are not allowed to vote. So the 'speed limit' will still be in place whether voter ID laws exist or not.
Not to mention that enforcing speeding laws does not discourage orders of magnitude more non-speeders than speeders from driving at all. So enforcing speeding laws has the entire upside of preventing/discouraging speeding (which is way more prevalent than voter-identity fraud) with absolutely none of the downside.
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,590
169
106
Oh so it's impossible for us to setup polling places where our military personnel are? lol
Yes.
Military personnel vote in elections in states/cities they reside. People are from all over th country from thousands of cities and towns. There can be elections every few weeks i.e. primaries, city elections. They cannot create a polling place logistically just so one person stationed in military base overseas can vote in some random city election.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
I keep telling you, no ghey sechs until you buy me dinner first. ...
And I keep telling you I have no interest in your lies or your man fantasies. Why do you keep pursuing them even though I've told you no so many times?


I also have to tell you I am not a child ...
Actions speak louder than words honey. Now go to bed. It's past your bedtime, you've failed to show us any entertaining talents at all, and your incessant chatter is so boring to adults.

Nighty night.
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,474
2
0
Yeh, knock 5 zeroes off of .0000002% to get to some significantly meaningful numbers, huh? That's willful blindness.

The rest of it? Repub leaders understand demographics, and have done more than a little bit of research into all this. If they lose 1 vote for every 2 that Dems lose, they come out ahead, and they know it. That's why they're doing it.

In person voter fraud related to picture ID is *statistically insignificant*. Anybody with more than a few grey cells to rub together knows it. Disenfranchisement can easily have a significant impact, with proper targeting, and that's what Repubs are attempting. It's a no-brainer, despite all the dishonest claims to the contrary.
I've seen local elections where the margin was under 10. Haven't you?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,050
9,927
136
I agree with you and BFDD about this, they need to clamp a much higher level of security on absentee voting.
More Republicans vote absentee then Dems.

But remember its all about stopping Democrats from voting not protecting the integrity of the vote.

PA already admitted it.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
And I keep telling you I have no interest in your lies or your man fantasies. Why do you keep pursuing them even though I've told you no so many times?
You keep calling me sexually charged names, so I keep reminding you.

Actions speak louder than words honey. Now go to bed. It's past your bedtime, you've failed to show us any entertaining talents at all, and your incessant chatter is so boring to adults.

Nighty night.
Why do you keep using sexually charged phrases and children in the same thought? People may get the wrong impression and think you have a pdeo fantasy. I recommend stopping it before you convince people you do have them.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Eventually, the lies that this is about stopping dem votes will go the way of the loonie returner and loonie birther lies.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,112
13,049
136
Wut? Wow it works there, you know what else you can find? Anecdotal evidence that it doesn't work in other areas. IMO it's a system designed to be abused because it is completely impossible to tell who filled out the ballot.

here's just one link of issues in Florida
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02/deisy-cabrera-hialeah-voter-fraud_n_1733665.html

Florida seems to be at the top of the pack when it comes to absentee voter fraud from what I've been able to dig up.

oh look here's another recent one

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/14/688441/republican-candidate-under-investigation-for-absentee-ballot-fraud/?mobile=nc

and another one

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2012/08/24/2174159/phenix-city-women-charged-with.html

how about one more?

http://capoliticalnews.com/2011/11/25/georgia-democrat-party-tied-to-absentee-ballot-fraud-how-about-ca-investigation-as-well/

should I keep this up?

EDIT- OF COURSE I SHOULD!
Here's an article on it from 04
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/13/politics/campaign/13vote.html?_r=0

article from 2000 talking about "modern voter fraud" pointing to a case in 98
http://www.fed-soc.org/publications/detail/voter-fraud-in-our-republic
Article pertaining to said voter fraud of 98 in Miami
http://articles.cnn.com/1998-03-04/politics/miami.mayor_1_suarez-campaign-absentee-ballots-absentee-voter?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS

Article from 1988 pertaining to absentee ballot fraud charges
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-11-07/news/8802130714_1_absentee-ballots-vote-fraud-get-out-the-vote-rally
What part of *statistically insignificant* at the national level do you fail to comprehend?

What part of *self inflicted wounds*, Munchausen syndrome & conflation of issues at the state & local level fail to penetrate?

How to prevent fraud in swing states from affecting the Presidential election outcome? Adopt the National Popular Vote-

http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/

Had it been in effect in 2000, GWB never would have become President...
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
How to prevent fraud in swing states from affecting the Presidential election outcome? Adopt the National Popular Vote-

http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/

Had it been in effect in 2000, GWB never would have become President...
The founding fathers setup the EC for good reasons...and low population states is one of them. What you want is for large cities to control the election and no one else to matter. No thanks.
 

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