From Soundstorm to Audigy 2 ZS

[will889]

Originally posted by: SniperWulf
So when i was using the analog outs from my old SN45G to my Logitech Z-540s, I wasn't reaping any of the benefits of MCP-T/SoundStorm at all???? Would that be the equavalent of using the plain old MCP with a decent set of analog speakers????

That is correct. You would have needed to use this-



http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=56-101-901&depa=0

 

[SniperWulf]

well I'll be damned. and all that time I thought I was using something special. No wonder there are so many motherboards out there that just use the MCP

 

[will889]

Yeah, cost cutting I have 2 MCP only boards. One with TB Santa Cruise, other with Audigy 2 OEM (which is nealy as good as the ZS). Superb sound-

 

[will889]

True MCP-T soundstorm is also really good.

 

[ponyo]

Off topic but Hoot are you by chance the same Hoot over at Overclockers.com?

 

[will889]

No, not me.

 

[jagec]

man, I WONDERED why my NF7-S had a slight hiss on the analog connection...I had to stick my Phillips soundcard back in because I was sick of it.

Strange that they'd include a connection so few people can use...

 

[will889]

Well, the good thing is that now you can get several set s of speakers that you can hook directly up to your soundstorm (Digital).

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Yeah but what speakers can use my NF7-S optical out?

Why couldn't they just invent a standard digital output format? Grrr...it's worse than DVD-R's!!

I think it's fairly standard: there's just digital and coaxial, and it seems it's easy to convert between them. You'd need a DAC or a digital receiver to make use of the optical output. As motherboard optical outs tend to be inaccurate (resampled), a sound card would be the best route I think.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: Hoot
Am absolutly certain. After contributing to countless threads, and actually calling and emailing nVIDA on this. Im sure. However. I will say this, depending on what board you have,and revision, the analog ALC650 is actually quite good in some cases. The soundstorm panel and EQ working doesn't actually mean anything because I can load that up on my Shuttle AN35N Ultra too, and it's not MCP-T. I had loaded it just to show someone else a while back. The control panel will function just as if it were in digital mode (almost). Now - here is a pic of an A7N8X-E (just like rev 2.0 deluxe). Look at the connectors. If you are using green/blue/pink. Your not getting any benefit of soundstorm. Not at all. Not watered down - nothing. It totally bypasses Dolby Digial encoding that qualifies it as Soundstorm Tech, which is an and of itself just a certification for the nVIDA APU's handling of the digital stream in real time. Try some Logitech digital speakers with your digital connections on the motherboard, and you will hear a big difference in calrity.

Pic


http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=13-131-478-02.JPG/13-131-478-03.JPG/13-131-478-04.JPG/13-131-478-01.JPG

So if you use analog, your CPU utilization will shoot up? The nvidia APU is a powerful sound processor that does sound processing. With the realtek, all the sound processing would be used with the CPU, and the nvidia APU would be useless. Why would the drivers even install then? Why would nvidia even bother to put on that expensive APU when only about 2% of the people that buy that mobo has digital speakers?
AFAIK the realtek is only used as a DAC, and not as the AC97 codec, meaning the nforce APU will process the sounds in digital, and will send the digital stream down to the realtek, then the realtek will convert that digital stream to analog.

Yeah but what speakers can use my NF7-S optical out?

Why couldn't they just invent a standard digital output format? Grrr...it's worse than DVD-R's!!

I ran into that problem, because my digital speakers only had coaxial out. There are the pins for digital out on the mobo, one is ground, and the other is the signal. I just bought an RCA connector from radio shack, cut up one of those extra two usb faceplates(since i didn't need it with my case already having 4 usb ports on the front), and cut the usb faceplates off, and connected the wires onto the plug.
Works perfectly

 

[will889]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
[/L]

So if you use analog, your CPU utilization will shoot up?[/quote]


If you use analog you bypass soundstorm altogether and you would then be using analog realtek only - so yes your CPU utilization would be up - but not nealy enough to make a difference with a fast system anyway.

Why would the drivers even install then? Why would nvidia even bother to put on that expensive APU when only about 2% of the people that buy that mobo has digital speakers?

The drivers would install because of the fact that you can use either analog or digtial. The realtek "dac' handles the conversion of analog to digital if and only if you use optical out or RCA out. Drivers install no matter what. Many more people than your 2% quote have digital speakers. Most of the logitech line are digital (ready). Many of the creative line are digital (ready). Many simply used thier old habits and connected to the analog outs on the back panel of the mainboard nonetheless simply not knowing about how to really get the soundstorm benefits.

AFAIK the realtek is only used as a DAC?

Yes, but that dac is also used on all MCP_T equipped nVIDA chipset mainboards to handle analog to digital conversion (besides the Chaintech mainboards). the term DAC is self explanitory *Digital Analog Coversion*. Most solutions, even the SB live will do this. Realtek by itself will do this, but ... it is resampled and not nearly as clear as the nVIDA MCP-T and APU's encododing of said digital stream. For instance, on ef the reasons that the M-Audio sounds so good with digital is the true 24/96 sound samlping. You don't get that with realtek alone, Cmedia alone, SB Live alone etc.., as you can use SPDIF with those solutions as well. nVIDA's APU in conjunction with the realtek DAC allows superb efficient reslampling and a true endoded *Dolby Digital* stream.

 

[Fietsventje]

Hellow,

As a new person to this forums, I hope I can allow myself to 'reopen' this thread. I was very surprised about what I read here about the sound-capabilities of the nForce2-chipset. (I found this page through a Google-search on 'audigy 2 zs onboard sound comparison')

This is how I thought it was:

- In contrast with other on-board sound-solutions, the MCP-T would have a true sound-processor on board. I.e. one that takes care of most calculations concerning equalizing, 3D-effects, mixing etc.. Other solutions would depend on the main CPU for those calculations.
- In addition to that, there is this Dolby Digital-feature. I thought this implied that whatever sound you yank through your computer, it would be encoded to Dolby Digital and then sent through your Optical/Coax SP/DIF to your Dolby-digital Home Theatre system. This way you can use your high-quality setup also for EAX-sound effects, and not only for DVD-watching.
- Also, of course, there must be something to convert the digital sound to analog voltage and current. This is what I thought was done by the Realtek-chip. The MCP-T would send the digital PCM streams to that chip, which would in turn convert them to analog signals. (DAC -> Digital to Analog Converter as opposed to ADC: analog to digital conversion)

Now what Hoot is implying, is that when you are not using your digital-out, also the first of these three functions would fall away, and that the Realtek-chip is used as the only sound-solution onboard? I would -really- be surprised if that were true ... But since Hoot sais he has contacted nVidia about this all, maybe he can clarify some more ...

Greetz,
Fietsventje

EDIT: If it is allowed to post a link to a rival website, this must be the article that is referenced to in this thread: http://www.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html

 

[Schadenfroh]

i just moved from a soundstorm a7n8x deluxe to an audigy2 zs and i will say that the audigy2 zs is better than the POS realtek DAC on the A7N8X. I can actually run my games in EAX without it sounding like crap and the sound actually sounds clearer. Your not using soundstorm unless you are using the s/pdif output on the nforce2, otherwise your going thru the crappy realtek DAC

 

[HardWarrior]

I went from SS to a ZS and the difference is quite pronounced in terms of fidelity. CPU utilization for the ZS is a fraction of what SS requires. I use full hardware sound support in UT2k4 with no hitches at all, which SS simply couldn't accomplish. If you take the jump, you won't be dissapointed.

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
I went from SS to a ZS and the difference is quite pronounced in terms of fidelity. CPU utilization for the ZS is a fraction of what SS requires. I use full hardware sound support in UT2k4 with no hitches at all, which SS simply couldn't accomplish. If you take the jump, you won't be dissapointed.

CPU utilization should have been similar if you're using Soundstorm. Remember you're not using Soundstorm unless you connect your speakers or receiver via SP/DIF/Optical cable.

I've used Soundstorm connected via SP/DIF to cheap Kenwood receiver and JBL speakers and it sounded very good. Same when connected to my Logitech Z680 via SP/DIF.

 

[Fietsventje]

Originally posted by: Naustica
Remember you're not using Soundstorm unless you connect your speakers or receiver via SP/DIF/Optical cable.

That is the point of question to me ... Did you happen to test the CPU utilisation when using the analog outputs? Or is there an article somewhere on the internet proving that this is true?

Thanx in advance,
Fietsventje
PS: that is Dutch for Bikeman, which is supposed to be myu nickname, but it appears to be in use already ...

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Fietsventje

Originally posted by: Naustica
Remember you're not using Soundstorm unless you connect your speakers or receiver via SP/DIF/Optical cable.

That is the point of question to me ... Did you happen to test the CPU utilisation when using the analog outputs? Or is there an article somewhere on the internet proving that this is true?

Thanx in advance,
Fietsventje
PS: that is Dutch for Bikeman, which is supposed to be myu nickname, but it appears to be in use already ...

It's an undisputed fact. Quit disputing.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Naustica
Remember you're not using Soundstorm unless you connect your speakers or receiver via SP/DIF/Optical cable.

true, but how many people want to shell out the money for a speaker system or a reciever just to run soundstorm when they can buy an audigy 2 zs for about 80 bucks that has great DACs that you can hook up to regular pc speakers and make it sound great

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: Naustica
Remember you're not using Soundstorm unless you connect your speakers or receiver via SP/DIF/Optical cable.

true, but how many people want to shell out the money for a speaker system or a reciever just to run soundstorm when they can buy an audigy 2 zs for about 80 bucks that has great DACs that you can hook up to regular pc speakers and make it sound great

I agree. For most people using subpar onboard analog or buying audigy 2 is going to make most sense. But if you already have spare receiver capable of SP/DIF and speakers lying around like I did then Soundstorm is great free option.

 

[Fietsventje]

Originally posted by: Nebor

It's an undisputed fact. Quit disputing.

Sorry, I won't Isn't that what forums are made for?

Ok, I've been searching for some articles myself, and this is the closest I could find:

source: http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/reviews/nForce/nForce-p9.html
Tests (not explicitly published) also revealed that the encoding function does not have any impact on frame rate.

This is what I conclude: some people refer to SoundStorm as the feature that is marketed as the Dolby Digital-thing. Some others (like myself) refer to soundstorm as the entirety of the APU + SoundStorm.

And that makes the above statements true or not true, depending on to what group you belong ...

And if I'm not right, could anyone please post some benchamrk-results that prove that CPU-utilisation goes up when using the analog outputs? Tia!

Fietsventje

 

[Mem]

I agree. For most people using subpar onboard analog or buying audigy 2 is going to make most sense

I use my onboard nForce for gaming,anything serious then I use my £1000 plus HI-FI,no point spending money when I`ve an audiophile HI-FI that beats any soundcard combo out there.


As in more cases everybody has different needs so really no right or wrong on what`s best for you,only your ears and budget can really decide that.

and if I'm not right, could anyone please post some benchamrk-results that prove that CPU-utilisation goes up when using the analog outputs?

If you are using nForce drivers then APU will take care of CPU work load so no it won`t go up in analogue mode.

This taken from nForcersHQ.

If I am using the analog connections am I taking advantage of the Soundstorm's (i.e. the APU's) ability?

A: As long as you are using the nvidia drivers the APU will be taken advantage of. The realtek codec in that case is soley being used as a DAC. If you install the realtek drivers then the APU will be bypassed and all effects done using the CPU with the usual limitations (number of voices etc). If you have a board without the APU for now it may be better to make use of the realtek drivers otherwise use the nvidia ones.

.

 

[StormRider]

This whole Soundstorm + APU is so confusing -- I wish nVidia would publish something that would clarify things once and for all.

I too thought Soundstorm only meant the real time Dolby Digital encoding and that if you used the analog outputs, you would still get the efficient audio processing (3D, 2D, mixing etc) from the APU.

I would be very dissapointed if my nForce2 board is using my CPU to perform audio calculations like any other cheap AC97 board.

 

[stncttr908]

I went from my NF7-S 2.0 to an Audigy 2 ZS and I could immediately tell the difference. :thumbsup:

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: Mem

I agree. For most people using subpar onboard analog or buying audigy 2 is going to make most sense

I use my onboard nForce for gaming,anything serious then I use my £1000 plus HI-FI,no point spending money when I`ve an audiophile HI-FI that beats any soundcard combo out there.


As in more cases everybody has different needs so really no right or wrong on what`s best for you,only your ears and budget can really decide that.

and if I'm not right, could anyone please post some benchamrk-results that prove that CPU-utilisation goes up when using the analog outputs?

If you are using nForce drivers then APU will take care of CPU work load so no it won`t go up in analogue mode.

This taken from nForcersHQ.

If I am using the analog connections am I taking advantage of the Soundstorm's (i.e. the APU's) ability?

A: As long as you are using the nvidia drivers the APU will be taken advantage of. The realtek codec in that case is soley being used as a DAC. If you install the realtek drivers then the APU will be bypassed and all effects done using the CPU with the usual limitations (number of voices etc). If you have a board without the APU for now it may be better to make use of the realtek drivers otherwise use the nvidia ones.

.

Does the regular MCP chip have the APU in it? Or is that only included in the MCP-T chip? My nForce2 board uses the MCP chip.

I thought the MCP-T chip was just like the MCP chip except it can do real time Dolby Digital encoding.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

nForcersHQ audio FAQs

Yes, the APU is present on the MCP, Soundstorm and APU at nV's site