Fresno State Professor Throws Some Shade on Barbara Bush

[Doc Savage Fan]

LoL, it is always the 1%ers who decide isn't it?

Good point. But such is the nature of free speech and all the various forms it takes.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

 

[mect]

Didn't she tweet from her personal account?

I think she did, but her account was public at the time (I think she has since switched it to private).

 

[Blackjack200]

I think she did, but her account was public at the time (I think she has since switched it to private).

Okay? What's the significance of that?

 

[bshole]

Good point. But such is the nature of free speech and all the various forms it takes.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

I think we are headed down the road towards free 1% speech. Huge corporate monoliths look like they will own nearly all of the world media in a decade or so. They are also actively attempting to kill off independent media. I can imagine a day where Western atrocities in Yemen are not just vastly marginalized (as is the case today) but completely unreported on at all. It should concern all Americans that this allowed to happen. It is a horrible thing for free societies, that a few billionaires could be in a position to control and direct all news information on a global scale. It allows for global propaganda and incitement to war.

 

[Noah Abrams]

Sometimes free speech has consequences...especially if this free speech is considered to be highly offensive. She can't be jailed, but she can be fired...which may happen if enough donors force the issue.

It has already been explained in this thread why she can't be fired based on this. No matter how many donors force what. There are still some rights in this country which money can't take away. Thanks to the founders

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

It has already been explained in this thread why she can't be fired based on this. No matter how many donors force what. There are still some rights in this country which money can't take away. Thanks to the founders

Verify: Can a tenured professor be fired?
http://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/verify-can-a-tenured-professor-be-fired/103-542753720

While the situation is ongoing, Fresno state officials made it clear, Jarrar isn't exempt from being fired.

"There are certain processes we have to follow but there are, certainly, situations where a tenured faculty person can be fired," Zelenzy said.​

 

[Noah Abrams]

Verify: Can a tenured professor be fired?
http://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/verify-can-a-tenured-professor-be-fired/103-542753720

While the situation is ongoing, Fresno state officials made it clear, Jarrar isn't exempt from being fired.

"There are certain processes we have to follow but there are, certainly, situations where a tenured faculty person can be fired," Zelenzy said.​

Yes that is what he is saying, probably for PR purposes. What the professor said has zero grounds on which she can be fried.

 

[glenn1]

I think we are headed down the road towards free 1% speech. Huge corporate monoliths look like they will own nearly all of the world media in a decade or so. They are also actively attempting to kill off independent media. I can imagine a day where Western atrocities in Yemen are not just vastly marginalized (as is the case today) but completely unreported on at all. It should concern all Americans that this allowed to happen. It is a horrible thing for free societies, that a few billionaires could be in a position to control and direct all news information on a global scale. It allows for global propaganda and incitement to war.

As always nothing is preventing you or anyone else from putting your own capital at risk and starting up your own news organization. But you won't because you speak with you wallet and what you're saying by your inaction is that it's not worth that much to you. Instead what you actually will do is nothing more than complain because you expect someone better and richer than you to do it on your behalf, presumably out of some sort of noblese oblige.

 

[Noah Abrams]

I think we are headed down the road towards free 1% speech. Huge corporate monoliths look like they will own nearly all of the world media in a decade or so. They are also actively attempting to kill off independent media. I can imagine a day where Western atrocities in Yemen are not just vastly marginalized (as is the case today) but completely unreported on at all. It should concern all Americans that this allowed to happen. It is a horrible thing for free societies, that a few billionaires could be in a position to control and direct all news information on a global scale. It allows for global propaganda and incitement to war.

The trend is the opposite actually. The traditional media sources are losing relevance. There is more decentralization going on in terms of information and what people hear. Same reason Oscars are losing relevance.

 

[soulcougher73]

Sometimes free speech has consequences...especially if this free speech is considered to be highly offensive. She can't be jailed, but she can be fired...which may happen if enough donors force the issue.

Was she using a university twitter account or her own? If it was her own then she should be allowed to say what she wants without being fired IMO. I mean sure you can hate what she says and be offended etc, but...so?

I think some of the problems today are people giving away their power to social media. Instead of complaining and being offended and making this an issue, its easier to just unfollow or ignore her statement and move on with your life.

 

[Noah Abrams]

As always nothing is preventing you or anyone else from putting your own capital at risk and starting up your own news organization. But you won't because you speak with you wallet and what you're saying by your inaction is that it's not worth that much to you. Instead what you actually will do is nothing more than complain because you expect someone better and richer than you to do it on your behalf, presumably out of some sort of noblese oblige.

This is a good point that many people don't realize. Money IS a form of speech.

 

[Noah Abrams]

Was she using a university twitter account or her own? If it was her own then she should be allowed to say what she wants without being fired IMO. I mean sure you can hate what she says and be offended etc, but...so?

Doesn't matter what account she was using, personal or official. You guys have completely missed the reason why she cannot be fired even if she speaks in official capacity. Please go through this thread if you can.

 

[SKORPI0]

There's a lot of truth to what she said about W being a war criminal.

There was no need to invade Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

But on the other hand, since 1998 Iraq has been fundamentally disarmed: 90-95% of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capacity has been verifiably eliminated ... We have to remember that this missing 5-10% doesn't necessarily constitute a threat ...
In a speech before the World Affairs Council of Charlotte, NC, on April 7, 2006, President Bush stated that he "fully understood that the intelligence was wrong, and [he was] just as disappointed as everybody else" when U.S. troops failed to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.[81]

 

[soulcougher73]

Doesn't matter what account she was using, personal or official. You guys have completely missed the reason why she cannot be fired even if she speaks in official capacity. Please go through this thread if you can.

You might want to go through it and see my original response that as led to where my posts are at now

 

[Blackjack200]

Doesn't matter what account she was using, personal or official. You guys have completely missed the reason why she cannot be fired even if she speaks in official capacity. Please go through this thread if you can.

That might be true, but I think it remains an important distinction, since the fact that she used her personal account makes the University's response totally inappropriate. They should not have said anything about her comments at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

Yeah, I'd be disappointed too if my fig leaf for an illegal war was shown to be utter bullshit. There's no overstating the seriousness of his crime or the severity of his deserved punishment, even if we all know he will never have to face justice. It must be a source of at least some anxiety for most of the world to know that you are guilty of a capital crime.

 

[mect]

Okay? What's the significance of that?

I think its very different to make inflammatory statements in a private forum compared to a public forum. Kind of like saying stupid shit among friends at home compared to at a public rally.

 

[glenn1]

Doesn't matter what account she was using, personal or official. You guys have completely missed the reason why she cannot be fired even if she speaks in official capacity. Please go through this thread if you can.

I've seen very few here state she should be fired. That being said, tenure isn't a shield against any and all administrative discipline against her. If she used her official university Twitter account to make this statement and that's against school policy it would certainly be appropriate to give her a written reprimand for it (or whatever sanctions the policy makes available). Tenure also won't stop her career advancement from being brought to a screeching halt either if this act caused embarrassment to the university.

 

[Blackjack200]

I think its very different to make inflammatory statements in a private forum compared to a public forum. Kind of like saying stupid shit among friends at home compared to at a public rally.

I think her personal Twitter account is somewhere in between. No one sees her Tweets unless they have elected to follow her account (or someone else that they follow retweets it).

 

[SKORPI0]

Her opinion was that B.Bush raised a "war criminal". What does ATOT think?

Here's a interesting Sept 2010 article.

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

Writing in these pages in early 2008, we put the total cost to the United States of the Iraq war at $3 trillion. This price tag dwarfed previous estimates, including the Bush administration's 2003 projections of a $50 billion to $60 billion war.
But today, as the United States ends combat in Iraq, it appears that our $3 trillion estimate (which accounted for both government expenses and the war's broader impact on the U.S. economy) was, if anything, too low. For example, the cost of diagnosing, treating and compensating disabled veterans has proved higher than we expected.
The price of oil was less than $25 a barrel, and futures markets expected it to remain around that level. With the war, prices started to soar, reaching $140 a barrel by 2008.

That the Iraq war added substantially to the federal debt. This was the first time in American history that the government cut taxes as it went to war. The result: a war completely funded by borrowing. U.S. debt soared from $6.4 trillion in March 2003 to $10 trillion in 2008 (before the financial crisis); at least a quarter of that increase is directly attributable to the war. And that doesn't include future health care and disability payments for veterans, which will add another half-trillion dollars to the debt. As a result of two costly wars funded by debt, our fiscal house was in dismal shape even before the financial crisis -- and those fiscal woes compounded the downturn.
The Iraq war didn't just contribute to the severity of the financial crisis, though; it also kept us from responding to it effectively. Increased indebtedness meant that the government had far less room to maneuver than it otherwise would have had. More specifically, worries about the (war-inflated) debt and deficit constrained the size of the stimulus, and they continue to hamper our ability to respond to the recession.

 

[Sunburn74]

I don't understand the big deal. It's generally impolite to insult the dead but it's not like all dead people are saints either. I'm sure when Melanie trump is dead people will have pretty nasty things to say about her too. People are still saying nasty things about Michelle Obama .

Are people upset that she used bad language to describe a dead person or more because the professor took a position they personally disagree with?

 

[ciba]

You understand that this comment very specifically does not apply to this situation? 1) It is not a government arresting her and 2) it is not a nongovernment deciding not to tolerate her. Seems very much like a Pickering issue.

 

[pcgeek11]

Kind of like how the right takes out of context the "we had to pass it to know what's in it" misquote which i'm sure you were a part of?

Right. lol. That wasn't a misquote.

 

[pcgeek11]

Why? Because she said things you don't like?

No, because this statement: “I will never be fired,” she tweeted.

Seems to be a challenge to the school to fire her.

 

[Ackmed]

In typical fashion, when something bad happens to conservatives or Repubs, liberals really take the high road.

 

[Victorian Gray]

In typical fashion, when something bad happens to conservatives or Repubs, liberals really take the high road.

We weep for you.