French kick Sarkozy to the curb - Hollande to tax rich at 75%

[a777pilot]

The EU was designed to prevent another European war. It's worked in that respect. It's pretty paranoid to think the Euro was designed to put the US in its place.

That's

That's ....... brilliant!

LOL!

 

[PingviN]

That's

That's ....... brilliant!

LOL!

Please tell us all about your inside info as to why the EU was created in the first place. Should be a good read. And a laugh.

 

[elitejp]

I harbor ill feelings toward greedy CEOs downsizing/offshoring because of a 'bad economy' while the corporation simultaneously reports record profits and is sitting on record stockpiles of cash.

Seriously what is it that you hate about ceo's. Youe calling them greedy bastards because they are trying to make more money and keep the money they have earned? There isnt a single person here on this forum that looks forward to paying their taxes. There isnt a single person here on this forum that doesnt make use of tax exemptions. So how is it when we do it its ok but when someone who has more money than us does it they are just greedy bastard? I just dont understand this gimme gimme mentality.

Show me a better job where I work less and earn more and i will be first in line. How is this different than companies looking for ways to save money and earn more. Like ive said previously, I own a small business. My employees are paid good and I give bonuses as much as possible. But give me a lazy employee and and I will fire them as soon as I believe they have stopped trying to make any effort towards the business goals. Is this any different from hiring someone to do your yardwork and trying to find the cheapest laborer who does the best job? Well guess what? thats what corporations are doing when they need to go off shore or hire people from india to answer customer service lines. Well if you dont like it stop buying discounted chinese products and buy american only and pay who knows how much more for the same thing. Your friends will call you stupid and laugh. This double standard ideological crap really needs to stop in America.

I know this thread is about France but many people here have discussed how they believe this would be a good step for America as well.

IN SUMMARY, LET BE CLEAR TO SAY THAT MY MONEY DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU. And some multimillion dollar company does not owe me a single dime.

 

[CycloWizard]

The person who earned it does get to keep it. In face they can keep more, because raising inheritance taxes means we can lower other taxes. They just dont get to keep it beyond the grave.

The government has to raise money somehow. Raising it from the dead seems like the method that will get the fewest complaints.

This sounds like a motto for the ages: "Government has to raise money somehow." Instead, why doesn't government simply quit spending money? What would you do if your income was 25% more than it is now?

 

[nehalem256]

This sounds like a motto for the ages: "Government has to raise money somehow." Instead, why doesn't government simply quit spending money? What would you do if your income was 25% more than it is now?

Stick more money in my bank account.

Are you seriously suggesting the government can spend 0. No military, no police, no fire department, no roads?

And if you cut things like SS and medicare it means I would need to save it for retirement, which is fine by me, but it is not exactly fun money.

 

[CycloWizard]

Stick more money in my bank account.

Are you seriously suggesting the government can spend 0. No military, no police, no fire department, no roads?

And if you cut things like SS and medicare it means I would need to save it for retirement, which is fine by me, but it is not exactly fun money.

Are you really suggesting that you only pay 25% in taxes? My number is nearly double that, all things considered. Why the hell are you relying on government to save for your retirement? How is that possibly a role for a federal government? If you are actually relying on them for it, you are in a world of hurt because your contribution is already long gone. Your statements are not aligned with reality.

 

[OlafSicky]

Define "Rich" in France.Someone who works for a living?

 

[nehalem256]

Are you really suggesting that you only pay 25% in taxes? My number is nearly double that, all things considered. Why the hell are you relying on government to save for your retirement? How is that possibly a role for a federal government? If you are actually relying on them for it, you are in a world of hurt because your contribution is already long gone. Your statements are not aligned with reality.

I am saying that all I would do with the extra money is save and invest it.

I am not relying on government for retirement, quite the opposite, I max out both by 401K and Roth IRA. I am saying if you eliminate government retirement programs(which would be preferable), you are not going to have more fun money, because you will instead have to save it yourself for retirement.

 

[a777pilot]

Please tell us all about your inside info as to why the EU was created in the first place. Should be a good read. And a laugh.

"A good read"?

LOL!

Apparently you are lacking in reading skills.

 

[CycloWizard]

I am saying that all I would do with the extra money is save and invest it.

I am not relying on government for retirement, quite the opposite, I max out both by 401K and Roth IRA. I am saying if you eliminate government retirement programs(which would be preferable), you are not going to have more fun money, because you will instead have to save it yourself for retirement.

The point is that it's my money and I should be free to spend it how I please. Instead, I'm paying 19 million government employees to do... very little that benefits my daily life. It's absurd. We could cut 2/3 of that workforce without any net deficit in productivity (indeed, it would probably increase if congress similarly eliminated all of the paper these jobs exist to push). Spending could be decreased accordingly. There are plenty of things which government can justifiably be responsible for, but ours has gone so far beyond that at this point that we are simply reaping the inevitable consequences - circling the drain. We can either change course or we can go down the toilet.

 

[jstern01]

The point is that it's my money and I should be free to spend it how I please. Instead, I'm paying 19 million government employees to do... very little that benefits my daily life. It's absurd. We could cut 2/3 of that workforce without any net deficit in productivity (indeed, it would probably increase if congress similarly eliminated all of the paper these jobs exist to push). Spending could be decreased accordingly. There are plenty of things which government can justifiably be responsible for, but ours has gone so far beyond that at this point that we are simply reaping the inevitable consequences - circling the drain. We can either change course or we can go down the toilet.

You really do not know what the government does do you. Making claims that we could cut 2/3 of the government workforce without any net deficit in productivity just shows how naive you really are.

But since you made this claim with supreme confidence, please start showing what you would cut, and why. Also since you seem to know what they do, what the impact would be if they were laid off.

 

[a777pilot]

End the EPA.

End the Department of Commerce.

End the Department of Homeland Security.

End the Department of Education.

End the Department of Energy.

End the Department of Agriculture.

End the Department of Labor.

End the Department of Veterans Affairs.

End the Department of Transportation.

End theDepartment of Housing and Urban Development.

There. That is a good start.

 

[jstern01]

End the EPA.

End the Department of Commerce.

End the Department of Homeland Security.

End the Department of Education.

End the Department of Energy.

End the Department of Agriculture.

End the Department of Labor.

End the Department of Veterans Affairs.

End the Department of Transportation.

End theDepartment of Housing and Urban Development.

There. That is a good start.

Yet you have no idea what they do that impacts your life everyday. How about an explanation of why you would eliminate them. Show some knowledge of what each does, and why their elimination would not impact you or your community.

 

[ShawnD1]

The EU was designed to prevent another European war. It's worked in that respect. It's pretty paranoid to think the Euro was designed to put the US in its place.

Just like the US dollar, the intent of the Euro is to simplify trade. Can you imagine all 50 US states having their own currency? That's what Europe had. French francs, German marks, Italian lira, etc.

 

[a777pilot]

Yet you have no idea what they do that impacts your life everyday. How about an explanation of why you would eliminate them. Show some knowledge of what each does, and why their elimination would not impact you or your community.

I never said the there would be no impact on my life or that of others. I'm saying that most of these departments are a waste of time, effort and money.

These departments had all the best intention and they work hard. We had a saying in the Marines.....Don't confuse effort with results.

The Department of Education is not needed because education of our children is a local issues. It dos not, repeat, NOT fall under the bailiwick of the Federal Government.

Homeland Security is a joke. That function ought fall under the purview of the DoD.

The Department of Energy spending billions upon billions of dollars and does not produce a single gallon of gas.

here that is a start of why these department need to go. I do not argue with what they were intended to do but they are so far from the original intentions they need to be ended and re-thought.

 

[CycloWizard]

You really do not know what the government does do you. Making claims that we could cut 2/3 of the government workforce without any net deficit in productivity just shows how naive you really are.

But since you made this claim with supreme confidence, please start showing what you would cut, and why. Also since you seem to know what they do, what the impact would be if they were laid off.

The bottom line is that you don't understand what productivity is if you think big government contributes to productivity. Very little of what our government does is productive. Most of what it does is generate inane paperwork that trips up the little guy trying to do the right thing and which is completely ignored by the douchebag who will do whatever it takes to get where he's going. That said, you asked for it, so here it is:

Eliminate NIH, NSF, and NIST. Eliminate all of the other bazillion federal sources of research funding (e.g. USDA). Operate research on a private basis like in the UK where most research money comes from private charities. This decreases nepotism and increases the efficiency of the grant funding process. I know the US' process well enough to keep myself well funded, but also well enough to know that it's a ridiculous way to allocate resources. I can fund a small company entirely using government money, then patent the results and sell it back to them and the general public. It's called an SBIR.

Cut the Department of Veterans Affairs. All of it. Give free insurance for life to soldiers and get rid of this organization. I used to work for the VA and 95% of the employees do absolutely nothing in a given day. The other 5% are employed chasing after the 95% to get them to sign that one piece of paper they are supposed to sign in a given day. Demand in the private sector would increase and a large number of VA employees could go there (if they could get hired, which is unlikely). Insurance companies would have more business, so some of the employees could go there as well.

Your homework assignment is to take a job with a federal agency, then quit. Report back how long that process takes you, how many hours the paperwork takes, and how many man-hours of others were used to collect signatures on said paperwork. It took me fully 90 hours to finish my VA "clearance from indebtedness" to prove that I didn't owe the VA hospital money before they would give me my last paycheck. It took much longer than that to get hired. Oh, and you should also spend two years there trying to actually get your work done so you can realize how absolutely hopeless that venture is because all of your coworkers are union employees and can never be fired. You'll also spend weeks in "training" every year for things that have absolutely nothing to do with your job. You'll also spend days in "orientation" to learn how to do such exotic things as using a phone book. You'll be oriented every year, no less. The orientation will not differ from year to year, even to teach you new policies that directly affect every employee. You will not be able to log in to your computer accounts because your accounts (of which you will have many, all with completely different passwords which you will not be able to remember because of the inane security rules) will be automatically disabled and the IT people will be on a smoke break (which means they've gone home for the day - or the rest of the week). You will periodically receive certified letters stating that you have not been hired, you have been hired, you have been fired - these letters will be completely uncorrelated with your performance at work. You will never actually be fired, but you will receive these letters anyway because it keeps the union reps (at least one for each and every ethnicity employed at the hospital) employed. You will receive a productivity incentive of thousands of dollars if you skip a few weeks of work to watch the World Cup. You will be called to a far-away location for some urgent paperwork, then sit outside paying for parking because the employee who called you over so urgently was on her way out to a three-hour birthday party (AKA "lunch break"). THIS is the reality of our federal government today. I am painfully familiar with it. That is why I resent paying a huge proportion of my income into this black hole. I don't need to tell you where you can cram your suppositions about government or my understanding thereof.

 

[CycloWizard]

Yet you have no idea what they do that impacts your life everyday. How about an explanation of why you would eliminate them. Show some knowledge of what each does, and why their elimination would not impact you or your community.

Why don't you justify keeping them? While you're at it, justify their budgets. Show some knowledge about why I should hand over my hard-earned cash to support these agencies. If you want my money, the burden is on you.

 

[jstern01]

I never said the there would be no impact on my life or that of others. I'm saying that most of these departments are a waste of time, effort and money.

These departments had all the best intention and they work hard. We had a saying in the Marines.....Don't confuse effort with results.

The Department of Education is not needed because education of our children is a local issues. It dos not, repeat, NOT fall under the bailiwick of the Federal Government.
While ED's programs and responsibilities have grown substantially over the years, the Department itself has not. In fact, the Department has the smallest staff of the 15 Cabinet agencies, even though its discretionary budget alone is the third largest, behind only the Department of Defense and the Department of Health and Human Services. In addition, the Department makes over $120 billion in new loans annually. A wide range of management improvements have helped limit administrative costs to approximately 2 percent of the Department's discretionary budget and only about 1 percent of all grants and loans made by the Department. This means that ED delivers about 99 cents on the dollar in education assistance to States, school districts, postsecondary institutions, and students.

Homeland Security is a joke. That function ought fall under the purview of the DoD.

And while I agree that Homeland Security is pretty screwed up, how does it impact your daily life. The Department of Homeland Security has a vital mission: to secure the nation from the many threats we face. This requires the dedication of more than 240,000 employees in jobs that range from aviation and border security to emergency response, from cybersecurity analyst to chemical facility inspector. Our duties are wide-ranging, but our goal is clear - keeping America safe.

The Department of Energy spending billions upon billions of dollars and does not produce a single gallon of gas.

"The Department of Energy's overarching mission is to advance the national, economic, and energy security of the United States; to promote scientific and technological innovation in support of that mission; and to ensure the environmental cleanup of the national nuclear weapons complex. The Department's strategic goals to achieve the mission are designed to deliver results along five strategic themes:

" Energy Security: Promoting America’s energy security through reliable, clean, and affordable energy


" Nuclear Security: Ensuring America’s nuclear security


" Scientific Discovery and Innovation: Strengthening U.S. scientific discovery, economic competitiveness, and improving quality of life through innovations in science and technology


" Environmental Responsibility: Protecting the environment by providing a responsible resolution to the environmental legacy of nuclear weapons production


" Management Excellence: Enabling the mission through sound management "

They do this with about $24.2 BILLION / year budget,16,000 FEDERAL EMPLOYEES AND APPROXIMATELY 100,000 CONTRACT EMPLOYEES.

here that is a start of why these department need to go. I do not argue with what they were intended to do but they are so far from the original intentions they need to be ended and re-thought.[/QUOTE]

What we are looking at is a drop in the bucket. But the original argument was, how do they affect your daily life. Look at what I posted, and think about how you get gas, electricity, have a secure neighborhood, and schools that despite the educators being vilified by elected officials still turn out some of the best and brightest future scientists and leaders. All because these federal agencies exist.

 

[jstern01]

Why don't you justify keeping them? While you're at it, justify their budgets. Show some knowledge about why I should hand over my hard-earned cash to support these agencies. If you want my money, the burden is on you.

So you admit, you have no idea what they do. Read the post above, for some of the reasons why they are needed, and how they manage their budgets.

 

[jstern01]

The bottom line is that you don't understand what productivity is if you think big government contributes to productivity. Very little of what our government does is productive. Most of what it does is generate inane paperwork that trips up the little guy trying to do the right thing and which is completely ignored by the douchebag who will do whatever it takes to get where he's going. That said, you asked for it, so here it is:

Eliminate NIH, NSF, and NIST. Eliminate all of the other bazillion federal sources of research funding (e.g. USDA). Operate research on a private basis like in the UK where most research money comes from private charities. This decreases nepotism and increases the efficiency of the grant funding process. I know the US' process well enough to keep myself well funded, but also well enough to know that it's a ridiculous way to allocate resources. I can fund a small company entirely using government money, then patent the results and sell it back to them and the general public. It's called an SBIR.

Cut the Department of Veterans Affairs. All of it. Give free insurance for life to soldiers and get rid of this organization. I used to work for the VA and 95% of the employees do absolutely nothing in a given day. The other 5% are employed chasing after the 95% to get them to sign that one piece of paper they are supposed to sign in a given day. Demand in the private sector would increase and a large number of VA employees could go there (if they could get hired, which is unlikely). Insurance companies would have more business, so some of the employees could go there as well.

Your homework assignment is to take a job with a federal agency, then quit. Report back how long that process takes you, how many hours the paperwork takes, and how many man-hours of others were used to collect signatures on said paperwork. It took me fully 90 hours to finish my VA "clearance from indebtedness" to prove that I didn't owe the VA hospital money before they would give me my last paycheck. It took much longer than that to get hired. Oh, and you should also spend two years there trying to actually get your work done so you can realize how absolutely hopeless that venture is because all of your coworkers are union employees and can never be fired. You'll also spend weeks in "training" every year for things that have absolutely nothing to do with your job. You'll also spend days in "orientation" to learn how to do such exotic things as using a phone book. You'll be oriented every year, no less. The orientation will not differ from year to year, even to teach you new policies that directly affect every employee. You will not be able to log in to your computer accounts because your accounts (of which you will have many, all with completely different passwords which you will not be able to remember because of the inane security rules) will be automatically disabled and the IT people will be on a smoke break (which means they've gone home for the day - or the rest of the week). You will periodically receive certified letters stating that you have not been hired, you have been hired, you have been fired - these letters will be completely uncorrelated with your performance at work. You will never actually be fired, but you will receive these letters anyway because it keeps the union reps (at least one for each and every ethnicity employed at the hospital) employed. You will receive a productivity incentive of thousands of dollars if you skip a few weeks of work to watch the World Cup. You will be called to a far-away location for some urgent paperwork, then sit outside paying for parking because the employee who called you over so urgently was on her way out to a three-hour birthday party (AKA "lunch break"). THIS is the reality of our federal government today. I am painfully familiar with it. That is why I resent paying a huge proportion of my income into this black hole. I don't need to tell you where you can cram your suppositions about government or my understanding thereof.

I actually worked for the DoD during the 1980's and I can tell you its no different that what I have to put up with at FedEx on a daily basis. When simple one line code changes take 20 hours of paperwork, numerous management level approvals and meetings. Trust me, the gov't has nothing on private industry.

The one thing you seem to forget is that most of the government has contracted out its back office work. Many of the positions if you check out USAJOBS website are PM jobs, one gov't employee overseeing lots of contractors. And if you kill these jobs how many contractor jobs (ie private company employees) would be unemployed?

B

 

[a777pilot]

What we are looking at is a drop in the bucket. But the original argument was, how do they affect your daily life. Look at what I posted, and think about how you get gas, electricity, have a secure neighborhood, and schools that despite the educators being vilified by elected officials still turn out some of the best and brightest future scientists and leaders. All because these federal agencies exist.

"All because these federal agencies exist."

And I say it is done inspite of these agencies.

 

[jstern01]

And for your edification as of December 2011 there are 2,100,905 federal employees (excluding military) in the executive branch agencies/departments. which means the number of 19 million is a gross exaggeration.

 

[jstern01]

"All because these federal agencies exist."

And I say it is done inspite of these agencies.

I would argue its because they exist. for the 2.1 million employees that help manage our nation, so that people can travel on road, rails and airplanes. Can gas up their cars. Can go to their water faucet and get clean water. Send their kids to school knowing that at least minimum educational standards are met so they might compete regardless of their states interest in their education (Florida I am looking at you!). Can pickup a phone and dial 911 to get a first responder when their house is burning or live threatened. Its worth the price we pay.

 

[a777pilot]

I would argue its because they exist. for the 2.1 million employees that help manage our nation, so that people can travel on road, rails and airplanes. Can gas up their cars. Can go to their water faucet and get clean water. Send their kids to school knowing that at least minimum educational standards are met so they might compete regardless of their states interest in their education (Florida I am looking at you!). Can pickup a phone and dial 911 to get a first responder when their house is burning or live threatened. Its worth the price we pay.

...and I opine all of that is because of private businesses and the free market economy.

Are there legitimate functions of government? Yes, of course there are. I am an advocate of those that are governed least are governed best.

 

[cybrsage]

Who would regulate the nuclear industry if the Dept of Energy went away?