Freeze it

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
The dryer the product, the harder it is for it to go bad. Personally, I've never had a pasta go bad and I keep all my bread products at room temperature. I've had spaghetti that was 3 months old out in the pantry and it was just fine. The turnaround for restaurants is pretty high, so you won't risk noodles going bad. If we were talking dairy or meat, then yes, you have a concern because the microbial load is much higher. Those are moist, inoculated products. Dried products have almost no microbial load and it takes a very special set of microorganisms to actually get on it and grow.
Common sense should always trump absurd laws. I hope it gets changed, since as he pointed out, bread is kept at room temperature. Bread is far more likely to go bad than dry noodles, since it's a fairly moist product already. If grocery stores don't have to refrigerate their bread products, then he should not have to refrigerate his noodle products. To do one and not the other smacks of hypocrisy.

You might try reading the linked article before posting; the objects of the dispute are fresh rice noodles. Moist, fresh rice noodles. No dry noodles in evidence. They are potentially subject to bacterial, mold or fungal growth.

That said, the FDA should test the noodles in question to see what pathogens, if any, actually are common in room-temperature rice noodles before banning them. There should be some burden of proof of actual benefit on government regulators.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

There should be some burden of proof of actual benefit on government regulators.

Like checking to see if a threat exists in fact?

I'm with the science over the presumed correctness of government.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The government getting involved with noodles is really low man.

That was silly, Moonie. 😛

I thought this was a fun thread.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The government getting involved with noodles is really low man.

Yeah, really... What does the Flying Spaghetti Monster have to say about all this ?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The government getting involved with noodles is really low man.

Yeah, really... What does the Flying Spaghetti Monster have to say about all this ?

I heard him stutter, You are soba soba so bad. Re penne, repent.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The government getting involved with noodles is really low man.

Yeah, really... What does the Flying Spaghetti Monster have to say about all this ?

I heard him stutter, You are soba soba so bad. Re penne, repent.

That was really, really bad. You need to apologize to the entire forum, Moon.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: Craig234
I'm with the health experts, not the cultural superstitions.

I wonder if they can pay enough lobbying to get their way?

As usual, your comments are fucking retarded. Sometimes I wonder if you are retarded. You don't refrigerate rice noodles, dipshit. It gets hard and you can't stir fry/make noodle soup anymore. Sure, if you leave it out long enough it'll get moldy, but I have never had a problem with them.

Hell, run tests on it, see how fast bacteria grows. It's one thing if people have gotten sick from it, but this is just another idiotic government intrusion on people. I would be pissed off if I don't get to eat anymore fresh rice noodles because fucking idiots like you don't understand culture (or anything for that matter) Asian/whatever culture.

On a more positive commentary, maybe a more sound regulation would be to make the refrigeration requirements slightly more lax, maybe 50-60 degrees or something to impede bacterial growth.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
The dryer the product, the harder it is for it to go bad. Personally, I've never had a pasta go bad and I keep all my bread products at room temperature. I've had spaghetti that was 3 months old out in the pantry and it was just fine. The turnaround for restaurants is pretty high, so you won't risk noodles going bad. If we were talking dairy or meat, then yes, you have a concern because the microbial load is much higher. Those are moist, inoculated products. Dried products have almost no microbial load and it takes a very special set of microorganisms to actually get on it and grow.
Common sense should always trump absurd laws. I hope it gets changed, since as he pointed out, bread is kept at room temperature. Bread is far more likely to go bad than dry noodles, since it's a fairly moist product already. If grocery stores don't have to refrigerate their bread products, then he should not have to refrigerate his noodle products. To do one and not the other smacks of hypocrisy.

You might try reading the linked article before posting; the objects of the dispute are fresh rice noodles. Moist, fresh rice noodles. No dry noodles in evidence. They are potentially subject to bacterial, mold or fungal growth.

That said, the FDA should test the noodles in question to see what pathogens, if any, actually are common in room-temperature rice noodles before banning them. There should be some burden of proof of actual benefit on government regulators.

Yes, but the turnaround of those noodles is on the order of minutes. He makes them fresh to order. Should restaurants have to refrigerate orders if one dish gets cooked faster than the other?

It's not like he's coming in at 3am, making all the noodles for the day and then selling them at 3pm.

 

[txrandom]

FDA cares about some "bad" noodles, but they let big companies put tons of preservatives into everything else. I'd rather take the 2-hour old noodles.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The government getting involved with noodles is really low man.

Meanwhile, Craig is off in his lair putting the finishing touches on his proposal to create a new National Noodle Commission -- the purpose of which is to study the issue and eventually add 20,000 specially-trained, gun-toting, badge-carrying, noodle inspectors to the FDA...

It's funny how those who have nothing but straw, make nothing but straw men, unable to prticipate in the actual discussion.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: Craig234
I'm with the health experts, not the cultural superstitions.

I wonder if they can pay enough lobbying to get their way?

As usual, your comments are fucking retarded. Sometimes I wonder if you are retarded. You don't refrigerate rice noodles, dipshit. It gets hard and you can't stir fry/make noodle soup anymore. Sure, if you leave it out long enough it'll get moldy, but I have never had a problem with them.

Hell, run tests on it, see how fast bacteria grows. It's one thing if people have gotten sick from it, but this is just another idiotic government intrusion on people. I would be pissed off if I don't get to eat anymore fresh rice noodles because fucking idiots like you don't understand culture (or anything for that matter) Asian/whatever culture.

On a more positive commentary, maybe a more sound regulation would be to make the refrigeration requirements slightly more lax, maybe 50-60 degrees or something to impede bacterial growth.

Irony of the week award, and your lack of reading comprehension is worth of much pity.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The government getting involved with noodles is really low man.

Meanwhile, Craig is off in his lair putting the finishing touches on his proposal to create a new National Noodle Commission -- the purpose of which is to study the issue and eventually add 20,000 specially-trained, gun-toting, badge-carrying, noodle inspectors to the FDA...

It's funny how those who have nothing but straw, make nothing but straw men, unable to prticipate in the actual discussion.

Well, this has been going on for how many generations? If this is truly a health issue, there should be data which documents not generalities, but significant adverse effects of this practice. If not, then it's a pretty poor science. If someone can provide concrete data which directly addresses this specific concern which demonstrates a real hazard I'll rethink my position. Does anyone have scientific evidence which disproves the restaurant owners experience?

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The government getting involved with noodles is really low man.

Meanwhile, Craig is off in his lair putting the finishing touches on his proposal to create a new National Noodle Commission -- the purpose of which is to study the issue and eventually add 20,000 specially-trained, gun-toting, badge-carrying, noodle inspectors to the FDA...

It's funny how those who have nothing but straw, make nothing but straw men, unable to prticipate in the actual discussion.

I was merely commenting on just how quick you are to always back up your Big Government heroes.

After all, they always know best, right?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The government getting involved with noodles is really low man.

Meanwhile, Craig is off in his lair putting the finishing touches on his proposal to create a new National Noodle Commission -- the purpose of which is to study the issue and eventually add 20,000 specially-trained, gun-toting, badge-carrying, noodle inspectors to the FDA...

It's funny how those who have nothing but straw, make nothing but straw men, unable to prticipate in the actual discussion.

I was merely commenting on just how quick you are to always back up your Big Government heroes.

After all, they always know best, right?

It's funny how those who have nothing but straw, make nothing but straw men, unable to prticipate in the actual discussion

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
[Well, this has been going on for how many generations? If this is truly a health issue, there should be data which documents not generalities, but significant adverse effects of this practice. If not, then it's a pretty poor science. If someone can provide concrete data which directly addresses this specific concern which demonstrates a real hazard I'll rethink my position. Does anyone have scientific evidence which disproves the restaurant owners experience?

I gree with your standard that the science the government follows needs to be good science, but clearly few if any here are expert in the area, and if you want to add much, you will need to do some research and see who is right - even what the basic facts really are - and not just ask a question. My presumption is that the food safety people are more likely to have their facts right, and less inventive to cut corners. There's always a chance they're in the wrong, but it's hardly something to say is at all likely.

I don't know how a thread like this even becomes a controversy - the main issue with food safety inspectors is the need for more of them, not their using bad science.

I'd say the burden of proof in athis forum lies on those attacking the food inspectors, not placing it as you do on people to 'prove the restaurant owners wrong'.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
[Well, this has been going on for how many generations? If this is truly a health issue, there should be data which documents not generalities, but significant adverse effects of this practice. If not, then it's a pretty poor science. If someone can provide concrete data which directly addresses this specific concern which demonstrates a real hazard I'll rethink my position. Does anyone have scientific evidence which disproves the restaurant owners experience?

I gree with your standard that the science the government follows needs to be good science, but clearly few if any here are expert in the area, and if you want to add much, you will need to do some research and see who is right - even what the basic facts really are - and not just ask a question. My presumption is that the food safety people are more likely to have their facts right, and less inventive to cut corners. There's always a chance they're in the wrong, but it's hardly something to say is at all likely.

I don't know how a thread like this even becomes a controversy - the main issue with food safety inspectors is the need for more of them, not their using bad science.

I'd say the burden of proof in athis forum lies on those attacking the food inspectors, not placing it as you do on people to 'prove the restaurant owners wrong'.

When you worded the objection of the restaurant as "cultural religion". I don't think that was an accurate representation of the issue. I think "cultural empiricism" would be better. It's not as if anyone is confronted with a problem and they are rejecting it, there's no problem demonstrated. Consequently the government is enforcing regulations for a safety issue which apparently doesn't exist. Government has a list of regs, and it doesn't matter if they make sense. Rules are rules. A lot of people resent a scripted view of "science" which is really based on governmental inertia. "You will obey" doesn't sit will when those making the orders cannot explain their position in a particular context.

Again, if this practice had been shown to be a problem, then it would be perfectly reasonable to restrict it. As it is, the science mostly consists of "do what we tell you".

Somehow government has to become more flexible in dealing with individual circumstances, rather than forcing conformational standards because they can. Government intervention is not desirable. At times it might be necessary, and I understand that, but in every case it needs to act when problems actually exist, not because of some mandate from On High.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Craig234
My presumption is that the food safety people are more likely to have their facts right, and less inventive to cut corners.

Less incentive to cut corners? Bullshit. They have a huge incentive to "cut corners" and more so, be totally wrong. It's called corporate lobbying. We see it all the time with the FDA and Big Pharma.

 

[Taejin]

Originally posted by: spittledip

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The government getting involved with noodles is really low man.

Yeah, really... What does the Flying Spaghetti Monster have to say about all this ?

I heard him stutter, You are soba soba so bad. Re penne, repent.

That was really, really bad. You need to apologize to the entire forum, Moon.

lo mein? 😛

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: Craig234
I don't know how a thread like this even becomes a controversy - the main issue with food safety inspectors is the need for more of them, not their using bad science.

lol... I called it like The Babe himself.

/points way out over the left-field fence

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Taejin

Originally posted by: spittledip

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The government getting involved with noodles is really low man.

Yeah, really... What does the Flying Spaghetti Monster have to say about all this ?

I heard him stutter, You are soba soba so bad. Re penne, repent.

That was really, really bad. You need to apologize to the entire forum, Moon.

lo mein? 😛

Oh heck I thought it was spelled low man.

But the real problem here is that it's the folk who work for the government here that aren't using their noodles properly.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: spittledip

I'm with the chefs. The stuff will get ruined if refrigerated. If you don't want to take that risk, then don't eat the stuff.

Not anymore "ruined" than it would be if became infected with disease casing bacteria or mold, and not as "ruined" as anyone who ate such infected food would be. If restaurants want to sell such foods, contrary to health and safety laws, the burden is on them to prove their food cannot become a public health or safety hazard.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
[Well, this has been going on for how many generations? If this is truly a health issue, there should be data which documents not generalities, but significant adverse effects of this practice. If not, then it's a pretty poor science. If someone can provide concrete data which directly addresses this specific concern which demonstrates a real hazard I'll rethink my position. Does anyone have scientific evidence which disproves the restaurant owners experience?

I gree with your standard that the science the government follows needs to be good science, but clearly few if any here are expert in the area, and if you want to add much, you will need to do some research and see who is right - even what the basic facts really are - and not just ask a question. My presumption is that the food safety people are more likely to have their facts right, and less inventive to cut corners. There's always a chance they're in the wrong, but it's hardly something to say is at all likely.

I don't know how a thread like this even becomes a controversy - the main issue with food safety inspectors is the need for more of them, not their using bad science.

I'd say the burden of proof in athis forum lies on those attacking the food inspectors, not placing it as you do on people to 'prove the restaurant owners wrong'.

When you worded the objection of the restaurant as "cultural religion". I don't think that was an accurate representation of the issue. I think "cultural empiricism" would be better. It's not as if anyone is confronted with a problem and they are rejecting it, there's no problem demonstrated. Consequently the government is enforcing regulations for a safety issue which apparently doesn't exist. Government has a list of regs, and it doesn't matter if they make sense. Rules are rules. A lot of people resent a scripted view of "science" which is really based on governmental inertia. "You will obey" doesn't sit will when those making the orders cannot explain their position in a particular context.

Again, if this practice had been shown to be a problem, then it would be perfectly reasonable to restrict it. As it is, the science mostly consists of "do what we tell you".

Somehow government has to become more flexible in dealing with individual circumstances, rather than forcing conformational standards because they can. Government intervention is not desirable. At times it might be necessary, and I understand that, but in every case it needs to act when problems actually exist, not because of some mandate from On High.

QFT. Craig gets pwned again. I thought liberals like Craig were supposed to be enlightened and accepting of other people and cultures.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: spittledip

I'm with the chefs. The stuff will get ruined if refrigerated. If you don't want to take that risk, then don't eat the stuff.

Not anymore "ruined" than it would be if became infected with disease casing bacteria or mold, and not as "ruined" as anyone who ate such infected food would be. If restaurants want to sell such foods, contrary to health and safety laws, the burden is on them to prove their food cannot become a public health or safety hazard.

There has been no problems for the last thousands of years since we Asians have been making this stuff. Anyone who side the FDA is right on this particular issue is ignorant, based on the fact that these products have posed no harm to consumers.

 

[DrPizza]

Actually, many FDA rules are NOT based on evidence, and instead, are based on what someone simply thinks. Science is weird - sometimes, things that seem like "common sense" are in complete disagreement with reality. There are many rules the FDA has in place that have finally been shown to be wrong. I'm not an expert on noodles, but I will give one example I'm familiar with. The USDA recommends plastic cutting boards. Many health departments (it's by county in my area) prohibit the use of wooden cutting boards, because they harbor bacteria. Restaurants must use plastic cutting boards in my area, because "they're safer and don't harbor as many bacteria." This was based on an assumption, and one which has been proven to be false.

PLASTIC AND WOODEN CUTTING BOARDS
Dean O. Cliver, Ph.D
We began our research comparing plastic and wooden cutting boards after the U.S. Department of Agriculture told us they had no scientific evidence to support their recommendation that plastic, rather than wooden cutting boards be used in home kitchens.
<snip>
Our research was first intended to develop means of disinfecting wooden cutting surfaces at home, so that they would be almost as safe as plastics. Our safety concern was that bacteria such as Escherichia coli O157:H7 and Salmonella, which might contaminate a work surface when raw meat was being prepared, ought not remain on the surface to contaminate other foods that might be eaten without further cooking. We soon found that disease bacteria such as these were not recoverable from wooden surfaces in a short time after they were applied, unless very large numbers were used.

New plastic surfaces allowed the bacteria to persist, but were easily cleaned and disinfected. However, wooden boards that had been used and had many knife cuts acted almost the same as new wood, whereas plastic surfaces that were knife-scarred were impossible to clean and disinfect manually, especially when food residues such as chicken fat were present. Scanning electron micrographs revealed highly significant damage to plastic surfaces from knife cuts.


Although the bacteria that have disappeared from the wood surfaces are found alive inside the wood for some time after application, they evidently do not multiply, and they gradually die. They can be detected only by splitting or gouging the wood or by forcing water completely through from one surface to the other. If a sharp knife is used to cut into the work surfaces after used plastic or wood has been contaminated with bacteria and cleaned manually, more bacteria are recovered from a used plastic surface than from a used wood surface.

These restaurants have been making noodles the same way they've been made for centuries. Health departments regularly look for indications of food borne illnesses. Apparently, they're not finding a problem with the noodles. Why should the restaurants pay for research to show what anecdotal evidence (in fact, enough anecdotal evidence to be almost conclusive) that their noodles pose absolutely no health risks? Shouldn't it be up to the government to use research to ban particular practices, rather than the whims of what some "scientist" *thinks* is safe and not safe??

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
The dryer the product, the harder it is for it to go bad. Personally, I've never had a pasta go bad and I keep all my bread products at room temperature. I've had spaghetti that was 3 months old out in the pantry and it was just fine. The turnaround for restaurants is pretty high, so you won't risk noodles going bad. If we were talking dairy or meat, then yes, you have a concern because the microbial load is much higher. Those are moist, inoculated products. Dried products have almost no microbial load and it takes a very special set of microorganisms to actually get on it and grow.
Common sense should always trump absurd laws. I hope it gets changed, since as he pointed out, bread is kept at room temperature. Bread is far more likely to go bad than dry noodles, since it's a fairly moist product already. If grocery stores don't have to refrigerate their bread products, then he should not have to refrigerate his noodle products. To do one and not the other smacks of hypocrisy.

You might try reading the linked article before posting; the objects of the dispute are fresh rice noodles. Moist, fresh rice noodles. No dry noodles in evidence. They are potentially subject to bacterial, mold or fungal growth.
That said, the FDA should test the noodles in question to see what pathogens, if any, actually are common in room-temperature rice noodles before banning them. There should be some burden of proof of actual benefit on government regulators.

Yes, but the turnaround of those noodles is on the order of minutes. He makes them fresh to order. Should restaurants have to refrigerate orders if one dish gets cooked faster than the other?
It's not like he's coming in at 3am, making all the noodles for the day and then selling them at 3pm.

What does your response have to do with the dry noodles you were originally ranting about?
Again, have you read the linked article?

For 25 years, the Lucky K.T. Noodle Factory in El Monte has been making fresh rice noodles for hundreds of Asian restaurants and supermarkets in Los Angeles and around the country.

That doesn't sound like "turnaround on the order of minutes" to me...