France church attack: Priest killed. Terrorists suspected.

[Jaskalas]

War overseas will only act as mowing a yard full of weeds. Tomorrow they return and in more places.

You need a barrier, you need isolation. Those societies need time to mature, and evolve past base tribalism and religious violence. They ultimately need to police themselves, with guidance from us, but not much interference. We have been involved far too much, ala Iraq. And when we do we just make it so much worse.

So yes, you take out ISIS... but then you do not occupy. If they fight a war to stop terrorism (Syria) you do not act for regime change. War and casualties of war are a fact of life. It's going to happen whether it's Saddam, Assad, or ISIS. But at least with a country and a leader you can come to terms. You can negotiate. Why cut the head off the Hydra?

In old times the British thought it best not to kill the officers on a field of battle. So someone can lead the opposing men into an organized retreat or surrender. To help keep order and civility even amidst the most horrific scene. That policy has merit today.

The Middle East needs leaders, and it needs strong institutions to back those leaders. Then you let that sit and evolve over decades, even centuries. A Middle East we can live in harmony with could take a millennium. Let it.

In the meantime, we need barriers from the madness. We need distance and isolation from base tribes and religious violence. Flooding our streets with such madness will only act to END western civilization, and we cannot sit by and watch our leaders make that happen.

We need a movement to organize around a plan of action to divest ourselves from the Middle East, to limit both travel and communication. The only way to stop spreading this violence is to quarantine it. It is a disease, treat it as such.

 

[bshole]

The absurdity of this argument is absolutely astounding. Basically they are saying that the people of civilized countries have to alter their foreign policy to suit the wants of the crazies that have infiltrated their countries, lest they become targets for terrorism from those crazies.

Yeesh.

I disagree. I BELEIVE (an assertion made without evidence) if we withdrew COMPLETELY from the Middle East and absolutely REFUSED to get involved again, much of this shit would go away. Can we just try this method? We have tried the bombing and killing method ad nauseum. It doesn't appear to be all that effective and in fact appears COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE.

 

[Darwin333]

Turkey is massive compared to Syria, and much more problematic if it goes bad. It is not just the nuclear weapons (which hopefully can be de-activated and/or removed, before terrorists can get them). But Turkey has lots of modern weapons, such as fighter jets.
So if a new or current, crazy leader there, decides to get nasty, that is not good. Also ISIS are very close. They could see a sign of weakness, and try and rush in and steal the modern weapons and/or even the nuclear bombs. I hope/presume that the self-destruct mechanisms can be used in time, and that the US have this possibility under control.

If we are discussing this here on the forums I am sure that the government has already taken whatever action necessary to control or remove the nukes. I am not concerned about US nukes in Turkey falling into the wrong hands at this point. Maybe the day of the attacks but not at this point.

 

[0roo0roo]

Its becoming difficult to keep track of these, they've become so common.

Just remember, Hillary's stated mentor is Merkel...

I sort of agree and sort of disagree. We must convince Muslims that their religion is bullshit, just like any other religion. Once they have freed their mind, well..... the sky is the limit.

And NO, I don't think we bomb and kill our way to successful integration.

This is beyond our power. The left isn't even willing to acknowledge a problem exists, never mind accept that this religion is structurally different from others. It not only is a faith, but it prescribes the entire plan for running society and government. It is a system, which has an historical example in its founders implementation, where he mixed religious, state and military power. The scripture is air tight, there is no real hope of reform, let alone from outsiders.

and if you've ever wondered by TYT are so soft on Islam
https://www.reddit.com/r/theyoungturks/comments/4uevbd/the_young_turks_are_funded_by_qatar/
Now you know why.

 

[Bart*Simpson]

War overseas will only act as mowing a yard full of weeds. Tomorrow they return and in more places.

You need a barrier, you need isolation. Those societies need time to mature, and evolve past base tribalism and religious violence. They ultimately need to police themselves, with guidance from us, but not much interference. We have been involved far too much, ala Iraq. And when we do we just make it so much worse.

So yes, you take out ISIS... but then you do not occupy. If they fight a war to stop terrorism (Syria) you do not act for regime change. War and casualties of war are a fact of life. It's going to happen whether it's Saddam, Assad, or ISIS. But at least with a country and a leader you can come to terms. You can negotiate. Why cut the head off the Hydra?

In old times the British thought it best not to kill the officers on a field of battle. So someone can lead the opposing men into an organized retreat or surrender. To help keep order and civility even amidst the most horrific scene. That policy has merit today.

The Middle East needs leaders, and it needs strong institutions to back those leaders. Then you let that sit and evolve over decades, even centuries. A Middle East we can live in harmony with could take a millennium. Let it.

In the meantime, we need barriers from the madness. We need distance and isolation from base tribes and religious violence. Flooding our streets with such madness will only act to END western civilization, and we cannot sit by and watch our leaders make that happen.

We need a movement to organize around a plan of action to divest ourselves from the Middle East, to limit both travel and communication. The only way to stop spreading this violence is to quarantine it. It is a disease, treat it as such.

I'm so glad that shitheads like yourself weren't in charge during WW2 because we'd have lost while you assholes were all fretting about how to convince the Japanese and the Nazis how peaceful you were.

 

[theeedude]

I like Angela Merkel too. Great leader, IMO.

 

[Texashiker]

I want to make my own decisions in life. If a person or people want to make it for me, in another country (or enemies in this country), then they can see what the police and army have to offer. When they get angry, and have instructions to keep me (and the rest of us), safe from terrorists.

You are talking about a group of people who glorify death.

They have nothing to fear from blowing themselves up and taking you with them.

written by a pedofile warlord psycho.

Proof?

If you have no proof to backup your comments then edit and remove them.

 

[Jaskalas]

Its becoming difficult to keep track of these, they've become so common.

You have no idea... it is a clash of civilizations.
Europeans are no longer free to be European, under threat of death.

 

[agent00f]

So we have to wait a few hundred years before they have a reformation and figure out that it is bullshit?

Great, where do we sign liberals up? They can take on that risk.

There are perhaps more muslims like the conservatives in this thread than like me, after all western society is arguably improving in concert with that ratio.

In light of this, maybe the better solution is we exchange their people more like me for you. The islamists certainly wouldn't object to getting rid of infidels, so it's a win for most parties involved.

 

[Darwin333]

I'm so glad that shitheads like yourself weren't in charge during WW2 because we'd have lost while you assholes were all fretting about how to convince the Japanese and the Nazis how peaceful you were.

This isn't a war against another nation so the two are hardly comparable. In WW2 there was someone to actually surrender, there exists no such person or entity in the "war on terror". Bombing them doesn't seem to be working so what is your so called solution?

 

[Darwin333]

Proof?

If you have no proof to backup your comments then edit and remove them.

Pretty sure he was talking about Mohammad...

 

[bshole]

This isn't a war against another nation so the two are hardly comparable. In WW2 there was someone to actually surrender, there exists no such person or entity in the "war on terror". Bombing them doesn't seem to be working so what is your so called solution?

God if only it was so simple.....

 

[bshole]

Pretty sure he was talking about Mohammad...

Pretty sure it is applicable to all the Abrahamic religions.... LOL!

 

[agent00f]

God if only it was so simple.....

But how do you reconcile that with people like AnonymousUser who doesn't believe in Him?

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

If we are discussing this here on the forums I am sure that the government has already taken whatever action necessary to control or remove the nukes. I am not concerned about US nukes in Turkey falling into the wrong hands at this point. Maybe the day of the attacks but not at this point.

I looked into it a day or so ago, and it seems the nukes should be fine, because they need special codes to enable them (I think), can be somewhat permanently disabled via a self destruct code/key, which leaves the nuclear explosive intact, but blows up stuff inside, so that it is "safe".
Also they are in an underground, high explosive hardened (or nuclear explosion safe, I can't remember which) vault/bunker, so that they can still be used against enemies, even after major attacks.
Also I imagine the US would go in and sort it out, if necessary, with stealth helicopters or something. They may even be at the base at the moment (US), but I'm not 100% sure, because of all the stuff after the coup, and the current mayhem there.

But (I would expect) there is going to be normal military stuff which could blow up passenger jet airliners (meant to keep troops safe during battles), big bombs etc etc. Which we (the West), don't want to fall into ISIS's hands, like some of the stuff did in Iraq, when ISIS was first hitting the headlines.

So if Turkey goes crazy, such as civil war or something. There may be a need to sort some stuff out. There are also going to be many Westerners, who may need rescuing.

You are talking about a group of people who glorify death.

They have nothing to fear from blowing themselves up and taking you with them.

The Japanese Kamikaze planes, packed with high explosives, were very problematic during the later parts of WW2. But with the right techniques, and bravery/skills and stuff, the US was able to win out in the end.
There are ways which can be developed, to help the West fight terrorists and other enemies of the West, if necessary.

E.g. Israel has probably had to already deal with a lot worse, and has come out reasonably well, afterwards. But there are big pitfalls, in the way Israel has dealt with things. Including some unpopularity with some other countries.

 

[jman19]

Pretty sure he was talking about Mohammad...

Hey reading is hard.

Texashiker should stick to his tug jobs and leave posting to those who are literate.

 

[Fern]

I would worry more about the nuclear weapons that are in storage at Incirlik.

Why?

Aren't they disarmed (and guarded by our troops)?

Fern

 

[jman19]

Why?

Aren't they disarmed (and guarded by our troops)?

Fern

The weapons are not armed and cannot be without the activation codes being given by the US.

 

[werepossum]

The weapons are not armed and cannot be without the activation codes being given by the US.

Still, I'd feel a lot better if we pulled completely out of Turkey now to avoid the rush. There is zero chance that base is going to be useful to us now, and manning it just ties up resources and makes us waffle on practical alternatives whilst we unsuccessfully try to coax Turkey into playing ball. Better to face it now: the Islamicists won, and the military will never (in any reasonable time frame) be able to make Turkey an ally.

 

[Zaap]

I disagree. I BELEIVE (an assertion made without evidence) if we withdrew COMPLETELY from the Middle East and absolutely REFUSED to get involved again, much of this shit would go away. Can we just try this method? We have tried the bombing and killing method ad nauseum. It doesn't appear to be all that effective and in fact appears COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE.

It strikes me how I haven't seen a bunch of protestors out in the streets demanding an end to wars since....

...how long has Obama been in office now?

Drone strike in Syria just a few days ago killed how many? I wonder... WHO'S war was that again? There gonna be calls for war crimes trials?

 

[agent00f]

It strikes me how I haven't seen a bunch of protestors out in the streets demanding an end to wars since....

...how long has Obama been in office now?

Drone strike in Syria just a few days ago killed how many? I wonder... WHO'S war was that again? There gonna be calls for war crimes trials?

Murderous violence is business as usual in the west. The protests were more concerned that some amount of white people were dying in iraq (similar to when a few white folks were killed in benghazi), and that they were lied to or it was consuming an excess of their money. It's not really about the politically expendable.

 

[Zaap]

Murderous violence is business as usual in the west. The protests were more concerned that some amount of white people were dying in iraq (similar to when a few white folks were killed in benghazi), and that they were lied to or it was consuming an excess of their money. It's not really about the politically expendable.

That's a lot of blather just to say the protests were really only about an 'R' not a 'D' in office and that not one of them ever gave two flying shits about dead people in other countries.

The silence of "Obama's wars" now is deafning.

 

[michal1980]

So a muslim kills a catholic priest, and the conversation has been diverted to Turkey and nukes?

 

[agent00f]

That's a lot of blather just to say the protests were really only about an 'R' not a 'D' in office and that not one of them ever gave two flying shits about dead people in other countries.

The silence of "Obama's wars" now is deafning.

Let's not pretend you gave a flying shit either.

 

[Zaap]

Let's not pretend you gave a flying shit either.

I wasn't out in the streets like a fuckhead blocking other people from going about their business, while pretending to.