France church attack: Priest killed. Terrorists suspected.

SOFTengCOMPelec

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May 9, 2013
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This is a very annoying new development.

We have the right to freely choose, what religion, if any we want to support. A particular religion, does not have the right, to go around and attempt to destroy our existing (peaceful) religion(s).

If we want to live in a free society, stuff like that is completely unacceptable.

There are so many attacks, and so frequently now. It is almost a sort of mass terrorist attack on the whole of Europe or civil war, or whatever it should be called.
If these refugees are in some cases dangerous and problematic. Things should be done, to sort it out.

If this sort of thing is left to fester too long. We could end up with a partial or full civil war in Europe, and maybe further afield. As the far right, get more and more extremist, in response to the current climate.

Some sources are hinting that we may see Turkey get really messy, and go into a civil war. This comes from (I think) the fact that the UK military (SAS), are being readied to go in and rescue the huge number of British tourists that are there at any given time. They have even been given instructions to shoot if necessary. I read it in a somewhat reliable newspaper story, yesterday. So things could go from bad, to really, really bad.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36892785

A priest has been killed in an attack by two armed men at his church near Rouen in northern France, police and French media have said.
The armed men entered the church in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray during Mass, taking the priest and four other people hostage, the interior ministry said.
French TV said shots had been heard after police arrived at the scene. Both hostage-takers are now dead.
The area has been cordoned off and police have told people to stay away.
French interior ministry spokesman, Pierre-Henri Brandet, said one of the hostages had been critically wounded.
He said the hostage-takers had been "neutralised" after coming out of the church. Police were now searching the church for explosives.
'Barbaric'
Mr Brandet said the motive of the attackers was not immediately clear, but the investigation into the incident would be led by anti-terrorism prosecutors.
French Prime Minister Manuel Valls has expressed his horror at the "barbaric attack".
"The whole of France and all Catholics are wounded. We will stand together," he wrote on Twitter.
President Francois Hollande and Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve are on their way to Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray to be briefed by police.
 
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norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
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Some sources are hinting that we may see Turkey get really messy, and go into a civil war. This comes from (I think) the fact that the UK military (SAS), are being readied to go in and rescue the huge number of British tourists that are there at any given time. They have even been given instructions to shoot if necessary. I read it in a somewhat reliable newspaper story, yesterday.

I would worry more about the nuclear weapons that are in storage at Incirlik.
 

SOFTengCOMPelec

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May 9, 2013
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I would worry more about the nuclear weapons that are in storage at Incirlik.

Turkey is massive compared to Syria, and much more problematic if it goes bad. It is not just the nuclear weapons (which hopefully can be de-activated and/or removed, before terrorists can get them). But Turkey has lots of modern weapons, such as fighter jets.
So if a new or current, crazy leader there, decides to get nasty, that is not good. Also ISIS are very close. They could see a sign of weakness, and try and rush in and steal the modern weapons and/or even the nuclear bombs. I hope/presume that the self-destruct mechanisms can be used in time, and that the US have this possibility under control.
 

SOFTengCOMPelec

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May 9, 2013
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You got it just a few minutes before I was going to.

Is this the 3rd consecutive day of attacks already?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...urch-police-normandy-saint-etienne-du-rouvray

I'm not sure, but it is getting silly.

If we go back to the days of the vikings, we had ships unexpectedly/uninvited coming to shore and fighting/killing the residents. We fought back.

These days we have refugees, also arriving on ships, uninvited.
They are also (in some case), attacking/killing us.

We need to handle this situation.

Too many refugees arriving is one thing.

But if they are going to continually drive trucks all over us, blow us up, machine gun us, and knife us to death. We have to solve this ongoing problem. Not sit idly by and call anyone who complains about this, racists.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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The Little Boy and the Rattlesnake



The little boy was walking down a path and he came across a rattlesnake. The rattlesnake was getting old. He asked, "Please little boy, can you take me to the top of the mountain? I hope to see the sunset one last time before I die." The little boy answered "No Mr. Rattlesnake. If I pick you up, you'll bite me and I'll die." The rattlesnake said, "No, I promise. I won't bite you. Just please take me up to the mountain." The little boy thought about it and finally picked up that rattlesnake and took it close to his chest and carried it up to the top of the mountain.


They sat there and watched the sunset together. It was so beautiful. Then after sunset the rattlesnake turned to the little boy and asked, "Can I go home now? I am tired, and I am old." The little boy picked up the rattlesnake and again took it to his chest and held it tightly and safely. He came all the way down the mountain holding the snake carefully and took it to his home to give him some food and a place to sleep. The next day the rattlesnake turned to the boy and asked, "Please little boy, will you take me back to my home now? It is time for me to leave this world, and I would like to be at my home now." The little boy felt he had been safe all this time and the snake had kept his word, so he would take it home as asked.


He carefully picked up the snake, took it close to his chest, and carried him back to the woods, to his home to die. Just before he laid the rattlesnake down, the rattlesnake turned and bit him in the chest. The little boy cried out and threw the snake upon the ground. "Mr. Snake, why did you do that? Now I will surely die!" The rattlesnake looked up at him and grinned, "You knew what I was when you picked me up."
 

SOFTengCOMPelec

Platinum Member
May 9, 2013
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The Little Boy and the Rattlesnake

That is a poignant story with interesting parallels to today's situations.

I use to know that story, but I'd mostly forgotten it. So I enjoyed reading it again.

If I emigrated to a new country. I would be very respectful of the existing population, and try to blend in and comply with the new rules and regulations.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
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Let me guess. Some kids who never caused a problem, were never radicalized, never showed intent before. Motivations will be difficult to "untangle" and they won't ever know who helped them.

Ohh, and ban all knives. Because that worked so well for guns in France (and Germany).
 

SOFTengCOMPelec

Platinum Member
May 9, 2013
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Let me guess. Some kids who never caused a problem, were never radicalized, never showed intent before. Motivations will be difficult to "untangle" and they won't ever know who helped them.

Ohh, and ban all knives. Because that worked so well for guns in France (and Germany).

Apparently at least one of them was on the top/high terrorist suspect/watch, keep an eye on, list.

They probably wanted to kill many more people. But because of the recent nonsense in Europe, and especially France and Germany. The Police just barged in (or it was outside) and shot the terrorists dead, or one or more of them, or wounded them.
Which is much preferable to innocent people being killed.

The full story, does not seem to be available yet.

Based on this source:

Analysis - BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner
After criticisms of police shortcomings over the Nice attack on 14 July, French anti-terrorist police moved with commendable speed to close down this hostage situation in a Norman church.
Observers have pointed out that France and other countries are now moving more quickly towards what is called tactical intervention - overwhelming armed force aimed at minimising the period during which terrorists or armed criminals can threaten the public.
The selection of a church by the attackers, whatever their motives turn out to be, crosses a new red line in the grim history of recent attacks on continental Europe. The murder of an 84-year-old priest in this attack will have further inflamed public opinion.
News that one of the attackers was on the French government's terror watch-list, known as the S list, will prompt many to question its purpose if he can remain at large to carry a knife into a church.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,382
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Two ISIS knifemen shouting 'Allahu Akbar'
  • Priest had throat cut while another hostage is fighting for life after knifemen burst into Normandy church at 9am
  • Reports that one of the attackers shouted 'Allahu Akbar' as they launched attack at Gambetta Church near Rouen
  • Vatican has condemned the 'barbaric' killing of the 86-year-old priest and an anti-terror investigation is underway
  • ISIS claim responsibility for the atrocity while Francois Hollande says France is 'at war' with the terror group
  • One attackers lived locally and had electronic tag having been jailed in France for trying to travel to Syria in 2015
Terrorism "suspected" indeed. Early reports have given way to detailed facts.
Bravo to the quick and effective police response.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
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Bravo to the quick and effective police response.

You are likely to continue seeing quick and effective police responses if these attacks keep continuing. European countries, France especially noted, have been known to have more heavy-handed responses to internal security than the United States.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
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Let me guess. Some kids who never caused a problem, were never radicalized, never showed intent before. Motivations will be difficult to "untangle" and they won't ever know who helped them.

Ohh, and ban all knives. Because that worked so well for guns in France (and Germany).

IDK

This might be hard to untangle.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
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This is a very annoying new development.

We have the right to freely choose, what religion, if any we want to support. A particular religion, does not have the right, to go around and attempt to destroy our existing (peaceful) religion(s).

You do not understand islam do you?

There is no law but GODs law.
 

SOFTengCOMPelec

Platinum Member
May 9, 2013
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You do not understand islam do you?

There is no law but GODs law.

I want to make my own decisions in life. If a person or people want to make it for me, in another country (or enemies in this country), then they can see what the police and army have to offer. When they get angry, and have instructions to keep me (and the rest of us), safe from terrorists.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,382
7,445
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I want to make my own decisions in life. If a person or people want to make it for me, in another country (or enemies in this country), then they can see what the police and army have to offer. When they get angry, and have instructions to keep me (and the rest of us), safe from terrorists.

And when elected leaders purposefully flood your country with these zealots?
Police and army can only respond to finish / clean up the mess, but lives are already lost as a result of leadership making us vulnerable.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
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I want to make my own decisions in life. If a person or people want to make it for me, in another country (or enemies in this country), then they can see what the police and army have to offer. When they get angry, and have instructions to keep me (and the rest of us), safe from terrorists.

can somebody translate this for me?
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,309
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And when elected leaders purposefully flood your country with these zealots?
Police and army can only respond to finish / clean up the mess, but lives are already lost as a result of leadership making us vulnerable.

I don't think Clinton proposing to up Syrian immigration at a time of unleashed Muslim terror attacks in Europe is going to help her in this election.
 

SOFTengCOMPelec

Platinum Member
May 9, 2013
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And when elected leaders purposefully flood your country with these zealots?
Police and army can only respond to finish / clean up the mess, but lives are already lost as a result of leadership making us vulnerable.

Well it is people like, Angela Merkel the German Chancellor, that seems to have finished creating the latest mess. Openly accept millions of refugees, of a known dangerous type, who don't integrate and some of which end up being terrorists, and killing many innocent people.

can somebody translate this for me?

Translation: If people/Terrorists are going to kill me, because I am not following their religion. (Which is what a particular religion in the Middle East is being accused of here). I.e ISIS etc.

Then my response is: No, we are a free country/EU. So War it is.
I.e. Send in the police (locally to deal with terrorists, E.g. France today) and armies (abroad, currently ISIS) to deal with it.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
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Another view....

The key to beating terrorism is winning the hearts and minds of Muslims living in the communities that are vulnerable to radicalisation by hate preachers and terror groups like Islamic State and al-Qaeda. So while Merkel's critics have been quick to blame her for the recent attacks in Bavaria it is possible that her actions have already saved the country from the kind of organised mass-murder bomb and gun attacks which have taken place in France and Belgium. These attacks have sprung from the suburbs of Paris and Brussels which have become incubators of terrorism. The hatred and resentment which has taken hold there may take generations to overcome.

Certainly the Paris banlieues and the Molenbeek suburb of Brussels are populated by Muslims who no longer feel they have a stake in mainstream society. Many of the young Muslims brought up there have already headed out to Syria and Iraq to live and fight in the caliphate. Those who have chosen to stay continue to nurse grievances against a state which sends more and more police into their communities to knock down doors and make arrests.
François Hollande has frequently announced that he is at war with Isis. For many Muslims who feel they have become criminalised by their religion the French President might as well be declaring war on them.

The truth is that foreign policy does play a vital role in the radicalisation and incentivisation of terrorists. It is a lesson that France benefitted from during the Iraq war when its government vehemently opposed that conflict. During this period France was free from terrorist attacks, whereas Britain who instigated and waged war against Saddam Hussein, suffered the London bomb attacks of 7/7. Spain too, a high profile supporter of the war, faced the Madrid train bombings in 2004.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-from-terrorism-in-the-long-run-a7156756.html
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
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I sort of agree and sort of disagree. We must convince Muslims that their religion is bullshit, just like any other religion. Once they have freed their mind, well..... the sky is the limit.

And NO, I don't think we bomb and kill our way to successful integration.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
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I sort of agree and sort of disagree. We must convince Muslims that their religion is bullshit, just like any other religion. Once they have freed their mind, well..... the sky is the limit.

And NO, I don't think we bomb and kill our way to successful integration.
So we have to wait a few hundred years before they have a reformation and figure out that it is bullshit?

Great, where do we sign liberals up? They can take on that risk.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
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The truth is that foreign policy does play a vital role in the radicalisation and incentivisation of terrorists. It is a lesson that France benefitted from during the Iraq war when its government vehemently opposed that conflict. During this period France was free from terrorist attacks, whereas Britain who instigated and waged war against Saddam Hussein, suffered the London bomb attacks of 7/7. Spain too, a high profile supporter of the war, faced the Madrid train bombings in 2004.

The absurdity of this argument is absolutely astounding. Basically they are saying that the people of civilized countries have to alter their foreign policy to suit the wants of the crazies that have infiltrated their countries, lest they become targets for terrorism from those crazies.

Yeesh. :rolleyes: