France Bans Hijab/Veil In Football

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Incorruptible

Lifer
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
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CrackRabbit said:
So have you personally received death threats from a Muslim, or had one of them try to enforce Sharia law on you?
Have you even ever interacted with someone who doesn't share a religion and race with you?
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Yes, I have received death threats which is why I always post about these things
 
JohnOfSheffield

JohnOfSheffield

Lifer
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
France doesn't want women wearing that representing them officially, so what?

I'm sure Germans don't want players with the swastika tattooed on their forehead, is it oppression not to allow it?
 
JohnOfSheffield

JohnOfSheffield

Lifer
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Incorruptible said:
Your right but according to idiot left wingers it is oppression
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I'm sorry but you're just a tad too crazy in the other direction for me to want to agree with you on anything.

Go back to crying about Christian oppression and prove to everyone that you are the biggest hypocrite on this forum.
 
cybrsage

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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Banning hajibs and veils in sports is not a problem - it can cause safety issues. Banning hajibs and veils in places where security is needed (photo ID, airlines, etc), is a sad reality of our times, but is needed and people need to realize this and accept it. Just banning the hajib alone, in public, is stupid since it does not cover the face.

If the world was a place where people did not try to blow each other up, I would change my mind. Sadly, it is not.
 
I

Incorruptible

Lifer
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
cybrsage said:
Banning hajibs and veils in sports is not a problem - it can cause safety issues. Banning hajibs and veils in places where security is needed (photo ID, airlines, etc), is a sad reality of our times, but is needed and people need to realize this and accept it. Just banning the hajib alone, in public, is stupid since it does not cover the face.

If the world was a place where people did not try to blow each other up, I would change my mind. Sadly, it is not.
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Well said, One of the few people that actually gets it
 
A

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
cybrsage said:
The holy books of a religion do get to say what is and isn't required in the religion, though. I am sure you will agree to this.
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I didn't quote the rest of your post because it was based on this premise. No, I do not agree with this, for two main reasons.

The first, and biggest reason, is that no person/thing gets to tell another what their religious beliefs are (not a government, not a priest, not a book). You will rarely find two people of the same religion who have identical religious beliefs. So your options are to say most people have incorrect religious beliefs, or that religious beliefs are individualized. If they are individualized, there is not enough books to cover them all.

The second reason is that the books are not explicit, and there is no understanding of any religious text that is definitive. This has been shown over history as a religion evolves while the book does not. So pointing out a reasonable interpretation of a text, or even a majority interpretation, is not sufficient to establish legitimate religious requirements.
 
cybrsage

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
actuarial said:
I didn't quote the rest of your post because it was based on this premise. No, I do not agree with this, for two main reasons.

The first, and biggest reason, is that no person/thing gets to tell another what their religious beliefs are (not a government, not a priest, not a book). You will rarely find two people of the same religion who have identical religious beliefs. So your options are to say most people have incorrect religious beliefs, or that religious beliefs are individualized. If they are individualized, there is not enough books to cover them all.

The second reason is that the books are not explicit, and there is no understanding of any religious text that is definitive. This has been shown over history as a religion evolves while the book does not. So pointing out a reasonable interpretation of a text, or even a majority interpretation, is not sufficient to establish legitimate religious requirements.
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Huh? You are saying Jews are not required to follow the Tanakh, Christians are not required to follow the Bible, and Muslims are required to follow the Quran? That none of these books are actually able to say what is required in the religion founded by these books?

Wow. Ok, no need to ever discuss religion with you then.
 
I

Incorruptible

Lifer
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
cybrsage said:
Huh? You are saying Jews are not required to follow the Tanakh, Christians are not required to follow the Bible, and Muslims are required to follow the Quran? That none of these books are actually able to say what is required in the religion founded by these books?

Wow. Ok, no need to ever discuss religion with you then.
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Agreed. You will always have people like him try to justify everything
 
A

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
cybrsage said:
Huh? You are saying Jews are not required to follow the Tanakh, Christians are not required to follow the Bible, and Muslims are required to follow the Quran? That none of these books are actually able to say what is required in the religion founded by these books?

Wow. Ok, no need to ever discuss religion with you then.
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Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but what I intended to say is that you do not get to determine what is the definitive interpretation of the text. It is not so easy to say what is and isn't required by them.

If Christians are simply required to follow the Bible, why are there so many denominations?
 
cybrsage

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
actuarial said:
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but what I intended to say is that you do not get to determine what is the definitive interpretation of the text. It is not so easy to say what is and isn't required by them.

If Christians are simply required to follow the Bible, why are there so many denominations?
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AH, I understand what you mean now. One has to be careful, as some groups will purposefully violate the rules of their own holy book and pretend they are not. Forbidding of marriage and creating graven images and praying to them are two I can think of off the top of my head wrt Christianity.
 
A

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
cybrsage said:
AH, I understand what you mean now. One has to be careful, as some groups will purposefully violate the rules of their own holy book and pretend they are not. Forbidding of marriage and creating graven images and praying to them are two I can think of off the top of my head wrt Christianity.
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Right, but even those beliefs that are in violation of / not mentioned in the text are still legitimate religious beliefs if they are an honest expression of what one feels their God would want, whether that comes from an interpretation of historical religious texts or from gut feeling.

As an example, I know someone who is very deeply religious, who identifies as a Christian, and who is also a homosexual. I think most would agree that the Bible text disagrees with homosexuality, but she doesn't think so (or at least she doesn't follow the bible strictly, I'm not privy to all of her thinking on the subject). I don't feel that her religious beliefs, which include an acceptance of homosexuality, are any more or less valid from a religious perspective than any other person.

Circling back to the topic at hand, I believe that wearing a hijab is a legitimate expression of religion as soon as someone honestly feels it is, regardless of what is written in the book.
 
I

Incorruptible

Lifer
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
actuarial said:
Circling back to the topic at hand, I believe that wearing a hijab is a legitimate expression of religion as soon as someone honestly feels it is, regardless of what is written in the book.
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So then killing non-believers is alright as long as they honestly feel it is
 
Nebor

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
The Control Factor by Bill Siegel (link) explains how the very fact that so many are willing to defend Islam's intolerance will eventually doom them. Negotiating with people who will never settle can only end one way. They'll continue to take whatever you'll give them until the only thing you have left is your own freedom, your own life.
 
A

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
Nebor said:
The Control Factor by Bill Siegel (link) explains how the very fact that so many are willing to defend Islam's intolerance will eventually doom them. Negotiating with people who will never settle can only end one way. They'll continue to take whatever you'll give them until the only thing you have left is your own freedom, your own life.
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Agreeing to have other people tell me how to dress is certainly a great way to preserve my freedom!
 
I

Incorruptible

Lifer
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
Nebor said:
The Control Factor by Bill Siegel (link) explains how the very fact that so many are willing to defend Islam's intolerance will eventually doom them. Negotiating with people who will never settle can only end one way. They'll continue to take whatever you'll give them until the only thing you have left is your own freedom, your own life.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I have been saying but the idiots on here deny this
 
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