France Announces Early Afghanistan Withdrawal, Breaks from NATO

[Nebor]

Link

While it's true that France only has some ~3,600 troops in Afghanistan, the danger is that smaller ISAF partners, particularly Eastern Europeans, may decide to follow suit with the world power. With economic recession still plaguing most of Europe, those Eastern European nations are really straining themselves to keep troops deployed to Afghanistan.

The linked article doesn't go into detail about the incident in Kapisa Province, but basically the French soldiers were exercising, unarmed on an Afghan garrison. The Afghans were armed. An Afghan NCO started firing at the group of Frenchmen with an AK-47, killing 4 and wounding 16.

While it is tragic, the fact is, and has been, that the highest threat to ISAF forces in Afghanistan is green on blue violence. That is, Afghans turning on their trainers & mentors, either due to personal disagreements or Taliban\Al-queda affiliation. As such, being unarmed in the presence of armed Afghans is an absolutely unacceptable risk. I lived on an Afghan garrison, and when we would go for runs in the mountains, we would carry weapons. Ironically, the two French majors and 1 LTC I worked with thought we were silly for carrying weapons while we exercised. :hmm:

 

[Nebor]

And just to get it out of the way:

NATO lost a beauty contest with the Taliban, fail fail fail. Blah blah blah. I have no practical experience with what I'm talking about.

 

[RabidMongoose]

, particularly Eastern Europeans, may decide to follow suit with the world power.

That part was a nice laugh. France as a world power. Good one.

 

[Nebor]

That part was a nice laugh. France as a world power. Good one.

Most people don't realize that while America was "fighting" the cold war, and planning to maneuver fleets and divisions against the Soviets, the British and French have been conducting counter-insurgency operations around the world for the past 30 years. Anecdotally speaking, the British are much, much better at it than we are, even 10 years after we started playing catch up. The French don't seem very good, but their record world wide is still better than ours.

Edit: And I'm sure as it concerns you, the fights they've been engaging in have primarily revolved around maintaining their far flung colonies and "empires." I'm not concerned with the reasons that they fight, merely the methods and competency with which they do it.

 

[conehead433]

Good for them, I think we should just GTFO as well. Total waste of manpower, money, and everything else.

 

[RabidMongoose]

It's just a pretty low bar for 'world power' if France is one.

Anyways, good luck to the French in the pullout of their troops. I wish them the best.

 

[Lemon law]

As Nebor cries wah wah wah, France is with drawing its troops from Afghanistan anyway.

Has it ever occurred to you Nebor, France is doing the rational thing, because Nato has shown its too stupid to win in Afghanistan? The French may be slow learners, but after 10 years, the French are not totally stupid.

As for me, I will not second guess French reasons, but you Nebor need to take up your concerns with Saracosy and not me or these forums.

 

[Infohawk]

Isn't it time for everyone to get out of there?

They're probably trying to save some money given their budget problems, as should we.

 

[Nebor]

As Nebor cries wah wah wah, France is with drawing its troops from Afghanistan anyway.

Has it ever occurred to you Nebor, France is doing the rational thing, because Nato has shown it too stupid to win in Afghanistan.

As for me, I will not second guess French reasons, but you Nebor need to take up your concerns with Saracosy and not me or these forums.

I uh... err... Are you saying I shouldn't have made this thread?

It says in the article that this is likely a political ploy by Sarkozy.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Well, the US gave up on Afghanistan in '03 and the only reason any of us were ever there was to fight the Taliban that refused to give up Al Qaida operatives that were responsible for the 9/11 attacks so why the world we would want to stay for something that the US gave up on 9 years ago i don't know.

I advocate a complete withdrawal of all forces from the area, if you want to stay there wanking your cocks, go right ahead but since you are now negotiating with the enemy, why the fuck should we stick around?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I uh... err... Are you saying I shouldn't have made this thread?

It says in the article that this is likely a political ploy by Sarkozy.

I may hate to admit it, but given the upcoming election, you're so dead on the money with that statement that it's not even funny.

 

[GrGr]

Gee, the alien occupiers have to be armed to protect themselves against the population? How shocking! How surprising! I know, let's win their hearts and minds! That should do it. They will shower us with flowers and kisses and name their babies after us! Wait a minute, we just killed some babies didn't we, oh well never mind.

 

[cybrsage]

Must...resist....urge...to....make...cut & run....joke....



I wish them the best, at least they join in and sent troops.

 

[Nebor]

Gee, the alien occupiers have to be armed to protect themselves against the population? How shocking! How surprising! I know, let's win their hearts and minds! That should do it. They will shower us with flowers and kisses and name their babies after us! Wait a minute, we just killed some babies didn't we, oh well never mind.

I seriously doubt that the French have killed any babies in Afghanistan. They've worked exclusively in the realm of infrastructure improvement, humanitarian aid and training mentorship. But go ahead and dance in their blood.

To even throw around the term "occupiers" with any kind of sincerity shows that your viewpoint is incredibly tainted. Afghanistan could ask us to leave at any time, just like the Iraqis did, but as the article shows, the Afghans are angry at the French for suggesting an early withdrawal. They want Westerners there and are working out individual agreements with NATO countries to guarantee foreign forces in Afghanistan beyond 2014.

 

[gevorg]

don't worry, they'll be back there soon, except a few hundred miles west

 

[Kadarin]

IMO nation building in Afghanistan is a joke. My opinion is to make sure that Al Qaida is smashed, then GTFO and let the Taliban have the place. If those people want their fucked up religion and customs, let them have it.

 

[woodie1]

In Afghanistan we took our eye off the ball years ago. Time to take our losses and write off that cesspool.

 

[StrangerGuy]

IMO nation building in Afghanistan is a joke. My opinion is to make sure that Al Qaida is smashed, then GTFO and let the Taliban have the place. If those people want their fucked up religion and customs, let them have it.

Not just France, every single first world country should pull out of there while deporting every single Sharia lovin' welfare nutjobs back home and those scum will get live their vision of rampant human rights abuse with their Taliban 2.0 brothers who would find it happy with more easy targets to kill. Everyone wins this way.

 

[Murloc]

IMO nation building in Afghanistan is a joke. My opinion is to make sure that Al Qaida is smashed, then GTFO and let the Taliban have the place. If those people want their fucked up religion and customs, let them have it.

This.
If they want a taliban dictatorship, let them have it.
It's not like the current government is democratic anyway. They have factions and they're corrupt too.

Also did terrorism stop? Did people stop getting killed?
no, kamikaze all the time.
Invasions are useless, just invest all the money in secret services instead and deal with extremists coverly and selectively when they pose a direct risk.

It's not like the US have any alternative anyway, unless they want to stay there forever.

I think that european forces should withdraw immediately.
US can stay there and protect their interests if it's worth it, but Europe doesn't have enough hard power to justify wars with economic reasons.

 

[IonusX]

In Afghanistan we took our eye off the ball years ago. Time to take our losses and write off that cesspool.

no nation is a cespool.. except haiti.. that place is like the global write -off. any chance to save that nation died years ago when 1st world companies clear cut the whole bloody island for pennies on the dollar and then took over all their industries.

haiti will never crawl out of the hole its in until after we have all moved into space colonies cause earth has become un-inhabitable.

 

[Doppel]

no nation is a cespool.. except haiti.. that place is like the global write -off. any chance to save that nation died years ago when 1st world companies clear cut the whole bloody island for pennies on the dollar and then took over all their industries.

haiti will never crawl out of the hole its in until after we have all moved into space colonies cause earth has become un-inhabitable.

And yet given the choice to live there or Somalia I'd pick Haiti.

Is Afghanistan actually getting better? It seems to be just a decade+ black hole of death and money now.

 

[Broheim]

And yet given the choice to live there or Somalia I'd pick Haiti.

Is Afghanistan actually getting better? It seems to be just a decade+ black hole of death and money now.

in the urban areas it is, but the further out in the sticks you go the stronger the taliban gets.

 

[cybrsage]

Those who say the people there do not want democracy forget that they have a much higher voting rate than all the western nations have (save those with mandatory voting, naturally). This higher rate is in spite of armed men trying to kill them for voting.

The only people who do not want democracy are those who want to rule as despots.

 

[gingermeggs]

This.
If they want a taliban dictatorship, let them have it.
It's not like the current government is democratic anyway. They have factions and they're corrupt too.

Also did terrorism stop? Did people stop getting killed?
no, kamikaze all the time.
Invasions are useless, just invest all the money in secret services instead and deal with extremists coverly and selectively when they pose a direct risk.

It's not like the US have any alternative anyway, unless they want to stay there forever.

I think that european forces should withdraw immediately.
US can stay there and protect their interests if it's worth it, but Europe doesn't have enough hard power to justify wars with economic reasons.

More drone aircraft, for the win!

 

[Jaskalas]

Well, the US gave up on Afghanistan in '03 and the only reason any of us were ever there was to fight the Taliban that refused to give up Al Qaida operatives that were responsible for the 9/11 attacks so why the world we would want to stay for something that the US gave up on 9 years ago i don't know.

I advocate a complete withdrawal of all forces from the area, if you want to stay there wanking your cocks, go right ahead but since you are now negotiating with the enemy, why the fuck should we stick around?

I advocate a complete withdrawal of all forces from the area

Absolutely.