Frame limiter and vsync

[Whitestar127]

Does anyone know what happens if I use both vsync and a frame limiter?

For example if I vsync at 85Hz and then use a frame limiter at 60 fps.

Will one deactivate the other?
What will happen with regards to screen tearing, input lag and such?

I don't plan on doing this. It's just a theoretical question really.

 

[Mushkins]

In that example, vsync wont do anything. The frame limiter will take effect and keep the framerate at 60 fps, you'll never get to the scenario where vsync would have to do anything.

What would happen in regards to screen tearing and input lag wholly depend on your specific monitor and the specific application in question.

 

[bystander36]

In that example, vsync wont do anything. The frame limiter will take effect and keep the framerate at 60 fps, you'll never get to the scenario where vsync would have to do anything.

What would happen in regards to screen tearing and input lag wholly depend on your specific monitor and the specific application in question.

Not true at all. A 60 FPS limit on its own, only prevents you from having a frame rate higher than 60 FPS, but it does not prevent tearing. V-sync prevents tearing by preventing the GPU from updating the front buffer unless between refreshes, preventing tearing. When used together, you'll have no tearing, and a FPS limit of 60 (assuming both work together, some newer Nvidia drivers have issues with some limiters).

The problem with a 60 FPS limit with V-sync on a 85hz monitor is you are going to frame times that jump between 12ms and 24ms, which may appear to be a little stuttery.

 

[boxleitnerb]

In my experience there will be no screen tearing and input lag will be massively reduced. I've been playing with 60 Hz vsync and 59 fps limiter and the experience has been buttery smooth and direct for me with no tearing.

 

[bystander36]

In my experience there will be no screen tearing and input lag will be massively reduced. I've been playing with 60 Hz vsync and 59 fps limiter and the experience has been buttery smooth and direct for me with no tearing.

This is a different situation with only 1 FPS lower than your refresh rate, but it doesn't always help, and also causes a touch of a stutter every second.

That technique only helps reduce latency if all the following conditions are met:
DirectX is used in the game you are playing
V-sync is on
3 buffers or more are used

If any of the above are false, you are better off without the FPS limiter.

 

[Whitestar127]

There's a Skyrim player in another forum that says he uses vsync at 60hz, and when he sets Nvidia Inspector frame limiter to 58 fps it makes the cursor much more responsive, i.e. reduced input lag. But that it also leads to screen tearing when moving around.
Which makes me think that the vsync somehow gets deactivated when he sets the limiter to 58?

 

[Pandamonia]

59 fps limit and vsync is the best. No tearing or lag

 

[omeds]

There's a Skyrim player in another forum that says he uses vsync at 60hz, and when he sets Nvidia Inspector frame limiter to 58 fps it makes the cursor much more responsive, i.e. reduced input lag. But that it also leads to screen tearing when moving around.
Which makes me think that the vsync somehow gets deactivated when he sets the limiter to 58?

For the last few Nvidia driver sets the feature was broken (vsync would disable when the frame limiter was activated), but they fixed it in the latest driver.

 

[toyota]

59 fps limit and vsync is the best. No tearing or lag

as already mentioned, there will be some stuttering so that is not a solution for many games. 59 fps with vsync is not a great experience in a game without triple buffering. all it takes is panning around to see it. please dont tell me that you dont have it because you but you are just lucky enough not to notice it. you are like the people that dont notice tearing even though its right in front of them.

 

[Pandamonia]

as already mentioned, there will be some stuttering so that is not a solution for many games. 59 fps with vsync is not a great experience in a game without triple buffering. all it takes is panning around to see it. please dont tell me that you dont have it because you but you are just lucky enough not to notice it. you are like the people that dont notice tearing even though its right in front of them.

Im sorry but i have been doing it for ages and never see any stuttering.

59hz is smooth.

 

[toyota]

Im sorry but i have been doing it for ages and never see any stuttering.

59hz is smooth.

lol again its there in double buffered game so you just dont notice it for some reason. you are capped before 60 fps so with vsync on there is no way to avoid some hitching. I remember trying that 59 cap nonsense years ago and came to the conclusion that people are just oblivious to some things.

 

[Pandamonia]

lol again its there in double buffered game so you just dont notice it for some reason. you are capped before 60 fps so with vsync on there is no way to avoid some hitching. I remember trying that 59 cap nonsense years ago and came to the conclusion that people are just oblivious to some things.

Monitor refresh at 59.9 FPS and that 0.1 causes the input lag.

Vsync works fine and i can turn off buffering in settings.

I dont get lag or tearing at all.

 

[toyota]

Monitor refresh at 59.9 FPS and that 0.1 causes the input lag.

Vsync works fine and i can turn off buffering in settings.

I dont get lag or tearing at all.

it still will hitch with double buffered games and that is a fact. you are like one guy on here that says he does not ever get tearing with vsync off. its always ironic when people complain about one thing then do something just as bad yet not even notice it.

 

[Pandamonia]

it still will hitch with double buffered games and that is a fact. you are like one guy on here that says he does not ever get tearing with vsync off. its always ironic when people complain about one thing then do something just as bad yet not even notice it.

i have been using it on all games i play.

Give me a game ill go test it.

 

[bystander36]

i have been using it on all games i play.

Give me a game ill go test it.

You've become used to the little hitching that takes place after years of playing that way, but you will always get 1 frame per second that will take twice as long to display.

DirectX or not, triple buffering or not, if you play at 59 FPS on a 60hz setup, you will get the same experience. One hitch per second, but it is mild, and it prevents the games that cause latency when you can beat 60 FPS with v-sync on.

But to be clear, it only gives you a benefit if the game is using V-sync, DirectX and 3 or more buffers. With 2 buffers, or in OpenGL, or without V-sync, you are unnecessarily adding a hitch every second and gain nothing for it.

It may be worth testing each game to see what is best for you, but I suppose that might make you start to recognize the hitching, so it may not be worth it to you.

 

[Pandamonia]

You've become used to the little hitching that takes place after years of playing that way, but you will always get 1 frame per second that will take twice as long to display.

DirectX or not, triple buffering or not, if you play at 59 FPS on a 60hz setup, you will get the same experience. One hitch per second, but it is mild, and it prevents the games that cause latency when you can beat 60 FPS with v-sync on.

But to be clear, it only gives you a benefit if the game is using V-sync, DirectX and 3 or more buffers. With 2 buffers, or in OpenGL, or without V-sync, you are unnecessarily adding a hitch every second and gain nothing for it.

It may be worth testing each game to see what is best for you, but I suppose that might make you start to recognize the hitching, so it may not be worth it to you.

Monitors dont refresh at 60hz they work at 59.xx FPS.

Also GPU often pushes the FPS above 60hz even with vsync on.

 

[bystander36]

Monitors dont refresh at 60hz they work at 59.xx FPS.

Also GPU often pushes the FPS above 60hz even with vsync on.

The point stands regardless of the Hz. My monitor is listed at 60hz, and shows 60hz in every monitor program I've used, but I have seen them at 59hz too. That has no bearing on what I said.

The only way a GPU goes above 60 FPS with 60hz refresh while v-sync is on, is with OpenGL. Mantle may also allow this, but I'm unfamiliar with its rules. DirectX does not allow it.

The reason the 59 FPS limiter trick was created is ONLY because of DirectX when using 3+ buffers. OpenGL's method prevents the need for a limiter, in fact it creates latency. In OpenGL, if a new frame is created in a 3rd buffer while waiting to display the current image, it will discard that image and display the most recently created frame. This will improve latency. In DirectX, every frame is required to be displayed, even if a newer one is created. As a result, when a new frame is created, the GPU must still send the older frame to the display and hold onto the previous one. This results in added latency.

Anyways, the FPS limiter trick is only useful in DirectX with 3+ buffers while v-sync is on. If the game is allowing higher than 60 FPS with v-sync on, then v-sync failed to turn on, or the game uses OpenGL.

If you are playing a game that doesn't use DirectX, or 3+ buffers, then your FPS limit trick is pointless and may add latency in some cases.

 

[omeds]

59 fps cap works fine with double buffer and SLI fwiw. Does SLI introduce another buffer by nature of AFR?

 

[bystander36]

59 fps cap works fine with double buffer and SLI fwiw. Does SLI introduce another buffer by nature of AFR?

While it works fine with double buffers, it does not help one bit and adds that one frame per second stutter.

I'm not certain on SLI, but by logical reason, I'd assume it requires 3 buffers to work, otherwise the 2nd card could not be rendering a frame while the 1st card is doing the same. I also don't see why more than 3 buffers would be needed either.

 

[omeds]

Sorry, I meant it works fine with double buffer + SLI together at the same time, and that was my thought too, it must be adding another buffer from AFR.

 

[Pandamonia]

Since i run two 780 GTX then i guess thats why i am good.

 

[bystander36]

Since i run two 780 GTX then i guess thats why i am good.

You should still be aware that OpenGL does not benefit from this, regardless of SLI/CF or not.

 

[TeknoBug]

Even when the xbox 360 was locked at 30fps it had a lot of noticeable tearing in some games. Vsync would keep doing its job even below max allowable monitor rate.

 

[Pandamonia]

You should still be aware that OpenGL does not benefit from this, regardless of SLI/CF or not.

Who cares about openGL?

The good games run on DirectX.

 

[bystander36]

Who cares about openGL?

The good games run on DirectX.

Apparently you play games with OpenGL by your earlier comment about games going past 60 FPS on a 60hz monitor with V-sync on. That can only happen with OpenGL, unless you meant 60.1 or similar.

Good games come in all shapes and sizes.