FPS ONLY 75!!! in CS Source with ATI X1900 crossfire Setup HELP!

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BATMAN3677

Junior Member
Feb 23, 2006
15
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My friend has Nvidia Geforce 7900 and AMD 3700+ and he gets over 100fps (like 150fps)

I have AMD 4800 X2 and i had a single x1900XTX. I was getting only 75 FPS.... now i just added an X1900 Master card and i have crossfire enabled.

I get a 3dmark03 score of 29484 with no OC, a 3dmark05 score of 13700, and 3dmark06 of 9870.... WHY AM I GETTING ONLY 75PFS in CS... it doesn't make sense.



MOBO: ASUS A8R32MVP
Sound Card (using on board with latest Realtek Hd drivers)
Windows XP SP2 will all updates including hot fix for dual core processors
AMD Dual Core 4800X2 with latest AMD drivers and optimizer installed for Dual Core
ATI X1900XTX and X1900 CF with Crossfire enabled with 6.8 Catalyst drivers
Viewsonic 3ms 19in Monitor running at 1280X1024 at 75Hz max refresh rate.

Yes Vsnyc is off in ATI CP and in CS Source (but i know what your thinking... its almost as if it is still on?)

This is a fresh load so nothing else is loaded. No Quicktime, no Codecs, no AntiVirus, no Spyware crap... nothing.... Just Drivers, Windows with all updates, and CS Source.

Please help cause this is driving me nuts.....
 
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Ulfhednar

Golden Member
Jun 24, 2006
1,031
0
0
You're using an extreme high-end setup for a CPU limited game in 1280x1024, that is the problem.
 
F

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
I believe CS:Source has a framerate cap (like many other online gmaes) in order to prevent clients from going out of sync. If you're playing online, it's possible the framerate is artificially limited.
 
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GundamSonicZeroX

Platinum Member
Oct 6, 2005
2,100
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Originally posted by: Fox5
I believe CS:Source has a framerate cap (like many other online gmaes) in order to prevent clients from going out of sync. If you're playing online, it's possible the framerate is artificially limited.
Click to expand...
I got 130 FPS in CS:S on my old 6800GS online. So, I guess there isn't a cap?
 
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Ulfhednar

Golden Member
Jun 24, 2006
1,031
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Originally posted by: Big Lar
You have VSync enabled, and your refresh rate is 75. Thats why :)
Click to expand...
He said it's off in the drivers and in CSS in the opening post.
 
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Big Lar

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 1999
6,330
0
76
I saw that he Stated that, before I answered, It's gotta be a driver glitch, It Has to be enabled, maybe try a different driver.
 
ElFenix

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,395
8,558
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Originally posted by: Lonyo
Do you have Temporal AA turned on?
Click to expand...

yup, temporal AA overrides the v-sync control to turn v-sync on.
 
U

Ulfhednar

Golden Member
Jun 24, 2006
1,031
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Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
wtf a crossfiresetup for 1280x1024??????
Click to expand...
That's exactly how I reacted when I read it, and no doubt it's a huge contributor to the problem unless, as stated above, he has temporal antialiasing enabled.
 
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BATMAN3677

Junior Member
Feb 23, 2006
15
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0
WOW... went to lunch and thank you so much for the care. Alright lets see..

yes Hard drive is defraged... don't worry i'm not insulted

Yes I believe i have Temporal AA on.. .will check when i get home.

Yes LOL Crossfire for 1280x1024 :) because i am saving up for the Sony 23 inch... or the 30 inch HP (but i think that would be too high maintanence as games become more GPU intensive)...at least with the 23 inch, i may have at least another year on this setp :) IF THAT LOL

Okay.... so driver issue.... is it possible, i've had this problem with CSS even with version 6.5 of the catalyst driver.

Single GPU.. yes...prior to getting the Master card, and prior to completely reloading my machine (i do a fresh install every time i get a new component -kinda psychotic about it- lol) i was getting max FPS of 75.....


I'm going to try the driver u suggested or at least go into the reg and see if my Vsynch is truely off... That is what i am leaning toward... it has to be a vsync glitch.

I am on a mission here cause my freinds are all Nvidia fans.... i of course am an ATI fan.

My friend just built a machine for his doctor, bought the FX60 and went with the 7950 Dual core and He only scored 28000 on his 3dmark03 ...infact in every bench he was about 1000 points behind my setup and thats with the FX60 vs my 4800... but his FPS is over 150 in CS.... so I have to be doing somehting wrong

Is there anyway to check if the default load of CS has a frame rate cap?


 
B

BATMAN3677

Junior Member
Feb 23, 2006
15
0
0
I think i solved my own problem. i really believe i have Temporal AA on... ... here is what i learned by doing some google searches (thanks to the Temp AA comment)

Wait for Vertical Sync
Vsync limits you to a framerate equal to or a multiple of your refresh rate. If your vsync is set to 85Hz, your screen can only be updated 85 times per second, or 42.5, or 21.25, .... Disabling vsyncallows your monitor to display frames as fast as your card can render them. The disadvantage is that you may see some "tearing" of the on-screen image if the video card supplies a new frame before the monitor finishes reading and displaying the previous one from the video card's memory, so you end up with frame A on the top half of the screen, and frame B on the bottom half. AFAIK, current video cards are double-buffered: the back buffer is where the video card creates the current frame, and the front buffer is where a completed back buffer frame is flipped. The monitor gets its image from the front buffer. I believe vsync prevents the front buffer from being written to unless a complete frame can be transmitted at the designated refresh rate interval, potentially leading to the monitor displaying the same frame for multiple screen refreshes, but avoiding the problem of multiple rendered frames being displayed in a single screen redraw.

Vsync is desirable from an image quality point of view, but not from a smooth frame rate point of view. The solution is triple buffering, which takes up more memory but adds an extra (front) buffer for a vsync'ed monitor to draw from if the video card hasn't rendered a new frame in time for a new screen redraw, thus eliminating the multiple-of-refresh-rate-framerate problem.

TruForm
Truform is a technology made by ATi that, if the game supports it, it will detail things better making them smoother, but with a performance hit due to more polygon rendering.

Temporal Anti-aliasing:
Good info from WildStyle!

Quote:
Temporal AA is a way for ATi to allow antialiasing "for free" so to speak, i.e., little or no performance hit. What it does is that it takes different, programmable samples for AA and varies them by frame. As you may know, most MSAA (multisample antialiasing) techniques are based on one sample pattern based on the level (2x, 4x, 6x). What temporal AA does is use a slightly different sample for each frame (2 or 3 samples). Since it changes each frame, it should not be noticeable if your frames/sec is high enough - more on this in the next paragraph. The next result is that you can use regular AA with temporal AA to achieve much greater levels of AA with only the frame rate hit of non-programmable/standard AA.

There are some drawbacks to temporal AA:

* Vsync is required to be on, or should I say, is forced on if you enable temporal AA. For some users, this may be a problem.

* A relatively high frame rate is required to avoid flickering (>= 60 frames/sec). On the flip side, you can set a frame rate threshold. If the frame rate drops below the chosen rate, temporal AA turns itself off.

* It is only present in D3D as of Catalyst 4.6, but it should be available in OpenGL when it is formally released in 4.7. You can activate with 3rd party tools such as Radlinker.

FOUND ORIGINALLY HERE: http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:YYi...+not+off+ATI&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=10
 
L

LittleNemoNES

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
4,142
0
0
Originally posted by: BATMAN3677
I think i solved my own problem. i really believe i have Temporal AA on... ... here is what i learned by doing some google searches (thanks to the Temp AA comment)

Wait for Vertical Sync
Vsync limits you to a framerate equal to or a multiple of your refresh rate. If your vsync is set to 85Hz, your screen can only be updated 85 times per second, or 42.5, or 21.25, .... Disabling vsyncallows your monitor to display frames as fast as your card can render them. The disadvantage is that you may see some "tearing" of the on-screen image if the video card supplies a new frame before the monitor finishes reading and displaying the previous one from the video card's memory, so you end up with frame A on the top half of the screen, and frame B on the bottom half. AFAIK, current video cards are double-buffered: the back buffer is where the video card creates the current frame, and the front buffer is where a completed back buffer frame is flipped. The monitor gets its image from the front buffer. I believe vsync prevents the front buffer from being written to unless a complete frame can be transmitted at the designated refresh rate interval, potentially leading to the monitor displaying the same frame for multiple screen refreshes, but avoiding the problem of multiple rendered frames being displayed in a single screen redraw.

Vsync is desirable from an image quality point of view, but not from a smooth frame rate point of view. The solution is triple buffering, which takes up more memory but adds an extra (front) buffer for a vsync'ed monitor to draw from if the video card hasn't rendered a new frame in time for a new screen redraw, thus eliminating the multiple-of-refresh-rate-framerate problem.

TruForm
Truform is a technology made by ATi that, if the game supports it, it will detail things better making them smoother, but with a performance hit due to more polygon rendering.

Temporal Anti-aliasing:
Good info from WildStyle!

Quote:
Temporal AA is a way for ATi to allow antialiasing "for free" so to speak, i.e., little or no performance hit. What it does is that it takes different, programmable samples for AA and varies them by frame. As you may know, most MSAA (multisample antialiasing) techniques are based on one sample pattern based on the level (2x, 4x, 6x). What temporal AA does is use a slightly different sample for each frame (2 or 3 samples). Since it changes each frame, it should not be noticeable if your frames/sec is high enough - more on this in the next paragraph. The next result is that you can use regular AA with temporal AA to achieve much greater levels of AA with only the frame rate hit of non-programmable/standard AA.

There are some drawbacks to temporal AA:

* Vsync is required to be on, or should I say, is forced on if you enable temporal AA. For some users, this may be a problem.

* A relatively high frame rate is required to avoid flickering (>= 60 frames/sec). On the flip side, you can set a frame rate threshold. If the frame rate drops below the chosen rate, temporal AA turns itself off.

* It is only present in D3D as of Catalyst 4.6, but it should be available in OpenGL when it is formally released in 4.7. You can activate with 3rd party tools such as Radlinker.

FOUND ORIGINALLY HERE: http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:YYi...+not+off+ATI&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=10
Click to expand...


Yeah, you solved it. Temporal AA forces Vsync so that's why. You should be getting 130+ fps
 
R

robkas

Member
Aug 7, 2006
152
0
0
Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
Originally posted by: robkas
Originally posted by: phr0m
try this in the console fps_max 300
Click to expand...
no point of going over 100fps for css
Click to expand...

No point in going over 60 for ANY game ;)
Click to expand...
umm...yeah there is

for quake 3 you could do certain jumps with 125fps, and 333 fps i believe

then in CS and CSS you want 100fps for the netcoding
 
I

Ichigo

Platinum Member
Sep 1, 2005
2,158
0
0
So you ditched TAA in order to get above 75fps? Does that make ANY sense? You get video cards to increase IMAGE quality, not see how far you can push your FPS past noticeable limits. People like you play right into ATI/Nvidia's hands, honestly.
 
WaTaGuMp

WaTaGuMp

Lifer
May 10, 2001
21,207
2,506
126
Originally posted by: robkas
Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
Originally posted by: robkas
Originally posted by: phr0m
try this in the console fps_max 300
Click to expand...
no point of going over 100fps for css
Click to expand...

No point in going over 60 for ANY game ;)
Click to expand...
umm...yeah there is

for quake 3 you could do certain jumps with 125fps, and 333 fps i believe

then in CS and CSS you want 100fps for the netcoding
Click to expand...



LOl WTF how are people with LCD's suppose to have over 100 FPS when they are most likely going to have vsync on and a max RR of 75. I am not saying you are wrong I just dont see how this is something realistic for alot of people with the monitors being used now a days.
 
R

robkas

Member
Aug 7, 2006
152
0
0
Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
Originally posted by: robkas
Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
Originally posted by: robkas
Originally posted by: phr0m
try this in the console fps_max 300
Click to expand...
no point of going over 100fps for css
Click to expand...

No point in going over 60 for ANY game ;)
Click to expand...
umm...yeah there is

for quake 3 you could do certain jumps with 125fps, and 333 fps i believe

then in CS and CSS you want 100fps for the netcoding
Click to expand...



LOl WTF how are people with LCD's suppose to have over 100 FPS when they are most likely going to have vsync on and a max RR of 75. I am not saying you are wrong I just dont see how this is something realistic for alot of people with the monitors being used now a days.
Click to expand...
well, most competitive gamers use CRTs still. But i use a BenQ 19" LCD and never have vsync on in any game.

The reason you want 100fps (and only need 100fps) in CS is because server TICK rates are 100. there is a command that you put in console called cl_cmdrate 100. I believe this command sends data from your computer to the server. There are three different tickrate servers. 33 tick, 66 tick, and 100 tick. 100 being the most accurate as it sends and recieves teh most data. In order the SEND the full 100 "sets of data" you need to be getting 100 fps. If you are only getting 30 fps on a 100 tick server and you have your cl_cmdrate at 100, you will still only be sending 30 "sets of data" because you can only send out as many "sets of data" as you are getting for fps.

Hope i didn't confuse you, but thats why you sometimes want more fps for certain games, besides the fact to make it the smoothest playing

 
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