Fox TV's '24' Sanitizes Torture as "Necessary Evil"

[bandana163]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Vaerilis
PSA: You don't have to watch 24. It's just a TV show.

He can't help it. That facist Karl Rove and his pet Hitler Monkey, Bushy McChimpenstein have forced him to watch 24.

This must be the part of a major christian-materialist, liberal-conservative, communist national socialist conspiracy sponsored by the jewish buddhists who had their trousers ironed by the freemasons.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

:laugh: This thread is hilarious. First we have the OP who has joined the ranks of BOBDN, Bbond, and a few others as mindless cut/paste twits. Then I think there are some people who actually agree with his anti-'24' rantings. I mean come on - '24' is gov't propaganda? Seriously man - get some sleep and/or leave your cult - it's seriously destroyed any logical reasoning you may have had.

BTW - I love '24' - I don't watch TV at all because everything sucks, but I'm hooked on '24'. I missed the first 3 seasons but I have the DVDs now and just finished season 2. I love it.

CsG

 

[3chordcharlie]

CAD - have you been watching this season?

I really enjoyed the first two, and somewhat the third. This season they have really busted out the stereotypes, the 'ends justifies the means' actions (particularly the whole torture thing).

I've gone from being a big fan of the show to finding it actively offensive. Right-wing conspiracy? I doubt it. Sympathetic to the neoconservative cause? Absolutely: the show is trying to create a reality where torture doesn't seem so bad, and it's pretty silly to think that it wasn't intentional.

I doubt it was 'directed from high above' but it's more than just creative writing.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
:laugh: This thread is hilarious. First we have the OP who has joined the ranks of BOBDN, Bbond, and a few others as mindless cut/paste twits. Then I think there are some people who actually agree with his anti-'24' rantings. I mean come on - '24' is gov't propaganda? Seriously man - get some sleep and/or leave your cult - it's seriously destroyed any logical reasoning you may have had.

BTW - I love '24' - I don't watch TV at all because everything sucks, but I'm hooked on '24'. I missed the first 3 seasons but I have the DVDs now and just finished season 2. I love it.

CsG

They should have tortured Kim to death in Season 2.


BTW, this is a REPOST

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Votingisanillusion
I read this on WagNews before watching the latest episode of 24:

<< Tonight's edition of Fox Tevevision's 'crisis-in-a-day' thriller '24 is a blatant apologia for torture:

To thwart a terrorist plot, hero Jack Bauer (Kiefer Sutherland) and his Counter Terrorist Unit have shot a suspect in the leg while interrogating him; subjected the son of the defense secretary to high-tech sensory disorientation; stun-gunned a suspected but innocent colleague; and used a lamp cord to shock information from a businessman.

For 24's producers, in their fourth season of constructing a save-the-world scenario that must be completed in one day, the use of torture is about ?real-time? drama, not politics.

?It goes with the 24 conceit that we need information and don't have days to break this person. Sometimes we don't even have hours,? executive producer Howard Gordon says. [USA Today]

If that last comment sounds like a gung-ho Pentagon statement defending torture in Iraq, then you are hardly surprized, are you? Apologists for the inhuman detention treatment in Iraq have made just such excuses. This is Fox after all. Here's another tidbit of Bush'ist propaganda to conclude:

?Jack Bauer is a tragic character. He doesn't get away with it clean. He's got blood on his hands,? Gordon says. ?In some ways, he is a necessary evil.? >>



Well, if you remember the scene in which Jack's girlfriend looks shocked by the new side of Jack, the torturer, she recently discovered, you may have felt that her father telling her that "we need men like him" and her reaction was a great piece of psychological manipulation directed at the women watching the show; they are encouraged to feel like her and accept the fact that some men do torture, and that it is alright to love these men.
Before that Paul and others, after having been subjected to very painful torture, uncritically accept to go back to work with their torturers. Again, gross psychological manipulation of the masses of fans of 24. I do not feel like a fan anymore.
Frankly, I am very disappointed by this fourth season. It has turned into blatant propanganda for the Pentagon and the CIA's criminal conduct in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Guantanamo, and at home thanks to the fascist Patriot Act.
24 is now a fascist series.
Just like FoxNews is a fascist channel. No surprise.

Overdramatize much?

Jason

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
CAD - have you been watching this season?

I really enjoyed the first two, and somewhat the third. This season they have really busted out the stereotypes, the 'ends justifies the means' actions (particularly the whole torture thing).

I've gone from being a big fan of the show to finding it actively offensive. Right-wing conspiracy? I doubt it. Sympathetic to the neoconservative cause? Absolutely: the show is trying to create a reality where torture doesn't seem so bad, and it's pretty silly to think that it wasn't intentional.

I doubt it was 'directed from high above' but it's more than just creative writing.

The first two seasons didn't seem to have any issue with torture either - it was definitely there. This season's torture isn't anything new. As far as stereotypes - I think you are being overly sensitive. It's a freaking TV drama about terrorism. Are they supposed to ignore Muslim terrorists? :roll:

I was disgusted to see Sutherland do that little CYA PSA before one of the episodes. Get a grip people - yes, we know and understand that not all Muslims are terrorists. Sheesh.

Conjur - why? By who?

CsG

 

[smc13]

"In the perfect fascist world of 24, the perfectly obedient victims of torture do not sue their torturers. In the end, they condone the torture of every citizen.
All hail the new model citizens! They could be model citizens in North Korea, or could have been role models in the Soviet Union, or in Nazi Germany, too."

You do realize that 24 takes place over a 24 hour period, right (Hence the name 24)? How fast would you expect someone to be able to hire a lawyer? How much time do you think it takes a lawyer to write up a lawsuit? I thought you were claiming to be very intelligent?

Besides, it is a TV show. ;-)

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
The first two seasons didn't seem to have any issue with torture either - it was definitely there. This season's torture isn't anything new. As far as stereotypes - I think you are being overly sensitive. It's a freaking TV drama about terrorism. Are they supposed to ignore Muslim terrorists? :roll:

I was disgusted to see Sutherland do that little CYA PSA before one of the episodes. Get a grip people - yes, we know and understand that not all Muslims are terrorists. Sheesh.

Conjur - why? By who?

CsG

I found the upper class Muslim family of terrorists to be aprticularly offensive; as for the torture, I'm not sure; maybe it was just easier to accept the show as nothing more than drama in the first two seasons. They've created a pretty hard-hitting show, with a world view that turns my stomache.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
The first two seasons didn't seem to have any issue with torture either - it was definitely there. This season's torture isn't anything new. As far as stereotypes - I think you are being overly sensitive. It's a freaking TV drama about terrorism. Are they supposed to ignore Muslim terrorists? :roll:

I was disgusted to see Sutherland do that little CYA PSA before one of the episodes. Get a grip people - yes, we know and understand that not all Muslims are terrorists. Sheesh.

Conjur - why? By who?

CsG

I found the upper class Muslim family of terrorists to be aprticularly offensive; as for the torture, I'm not sure; maybe it was just easier to accept the show as nothing more than drama in the first two seasons. They've created a pretty hard-hitting show, with a world view that turns my stomache.

Ah, so an "upper class Muslim family" can't be radicalized?

What "world view" do you think they have?

CsG

 

[Beowulf]

Man it's a show last night I watched the Castro appeasement special of the West Wing were all Cuban-Americans were made to look like the reason for all of Cuba's ill wills.Yet despite Castro's record of oppression and brutality and his crimes against humanity he was made to seem the pitiful dying "president" of an island representing nothing but cigars, beaches and prostitutes.

So hopefully people don't take all shows to seriously and take it for what it is a show.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Ah, so an "upper class Muslim family" can't be radicalized?

What "world view" do you think they have?

CsG

The world view is the 'west before anything' one, that includes torturing people, innocent or not, because you decide it's 'necessary'.

The upper class family paints an interesting and inaccurate picture of what, exactly the terrorist threat is in America.

 

[smc13]

"The upper class family paints an interesting and inaccurate picture of what, exactly the terrorist threat is in America."

How so? Are you saying that only poor people are terrorists? Bin Laden is rich and so is his family. The al Quaida operatives that flew into the the World Trade Center weren't poor. It costs lots of money to take comercial jet flight lessons. A wealthy educated person would have an easier time getting an H1 visa or a student visa. A poor person wouldn't be educated nearly as well and would have gotten english lessons.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: smc13
"The upper class family paints an interesting and inaccurate picture of what, exactly the terrorist threat is in America."

How so? Are you saying that only poor people are terrorists? Bin Laden is rich and so is his family. The al Quaida operatives that flew into the the World Trade Center weren't poor. It costs lots of money to take comercial jet flight lessons. A wealthy educated person would have an easier time getting an H1 visa or a student visa. A poor person wouldn't be educated nearly as well and would have gotten english lessons.

And they were living in large suburban houses?

I'm sorry, the entire season has offended me pretty badly, and this is a show I used to like, and the main actor is someone for whom I have a fair bit of respect.

The show IS propaganda; I don't make any strong claims that it was 'directed from above', but it is what it is, and I don't like it.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: smc13
"The upper class family paints an interesting and inaccurate picture of what, exactly the terrorist threat is in America."

How so? Are you saying that only poor people are terrorists? Bin Laden is rich and so is his family. The al Quaida operatives that flew into the the World Trade Center weren't poor. It costs lots of money to take comercial jet flight lessons. A wealthy educated person would have an easier time getting an H1 visa or a student visa. A poor person wouldn't be educated nearly as well and would have gotten english lessons.

And they were living in large suburban houses?

I'm sorry, the entire season has offended me pretty badly, and this is a show I used to like, and the main actor is someone for whom I have a fair bit of respect.

The show IS propaganda; I don't make any strong claims that it was 'directed from above', but it is what it is, and I don't like it.

A sophisticated terror networks can't be in suburbia?
What is so offensive? The thought of educated Muslims being radicalized and planted somewhere years ahead of their scheduled acts? WTF? I don't get what there is to be offended about unless you have a very narrow view of what terrorism is or who it can radicalize.

How is the show "propaganda"? You keep trying to claim it has some agenda yet there is nothing to back it up. It's a drama show where the CTU agents do their job. *gasp* - you mean they actually find/kill/detain terrorists? OH TEH HOORRRAARRS :roll: There is no "'west before anything" world view - it's a farking TV show about a counter terrorism unit who's job it is to protect the US from terrorists

Sheesh - some people seem to want to rub their own "offended" nerve just to be offended it seems.

CsG

 

[cruiser1338]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Murderers, rapists and terrorists have it easy.

Personally, I would like to see them tortured daily, just for the hell of it.

Damn right.

24 has always been about the necessary evils. Would you rather Jack give him a nice cookie and asked politely? If you don't like it change channels, but you know if you like 24 a bit you won't, because that sort of stuff makes the show what it is. Political statement? Who cares.

If you can't stand the real world go get in the fetal position and start sucking your thumb, rock back and forth and mutter about how bad it is. Otherwise, shut up and enjoy the show.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Conjur - why? By who?

CsG

Because she was annoying as fvck in that season!

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: smc13
"The upper class family paints an interesting and inaccurate picture of what, exactly the terrorist threat is in America."

How so? Are you saying that only poor people are terrorists? Bin Laden is rich and so is his family. The al Quaida operatives that flew into the the World Trade Center weren't poor. It costs lots of money to take comercial jet flight lessons. A wealthy educated person would have an easier time getting an H1 visa or a student visa. A poor person wouldn't be educated nearly as well and would have gotten english lessons.

And they were living in large suburban houses?

I'm sorry, the entire season has offended me pretty badly, and this is a show I used to like, and the main actor is someone for whom I have a fair bit of respect.

The show IS propaganda; I don't make any strong claims that it was 'directed from above', but it is what it is, and I don't like it.

A sophisticated terror networks can't be in suburbia?
What is so offensive? The thought of educated Muslims being radicalized and planted somewhere years ahead of their scheduled acts? WTF? I don't get what there is to be offended about unless you have a very narrow view of what terrorism is or who it can radicalize.

How is the show "propaganda"? You keep trying to claim it has some agenda yet there is nothing to back it up. It's a drama show where the CTU agents do their job. *gasp* - you mean they actually find/kill/detain terrorists? OH TEH HOORRRAARRS :roll: There is no "'west before anything" world view - it's a farking TV show about a counter terrorism unit who's job it is to protect the US from terrorists

Sheesh - some people seem to want to rub their own "offended" nerve just to be offended it seems.

CsG

Wow, this is pointless.

I understand where you're coming from, but I really think you're missing every part of what I'm trying to say. Actually, that's not true - you're intentionally 'not getting' and mocking everything that I have to say.

The show is designed to reinforce the idea that 'every' muslim in America is a terror suspect. They have already tortured innocent people, with no repercussions (do you really think everyone you guys shipped off to Syria was guilty of something?).

Enjoy the rest of the season; the show is well acted, if nothing else.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Enjoy the rest of the season; the show is well acted, if nothing else.

So you're going to keep right on watching it, aren't you? Congratulations, you have made the Fox Network execs very happy since that is all they care about.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: smc13
"The upper class family paints an interesting and inaccurate picture of what, exactly the terrorist threat is in America."

How so? Are you saying that only poor people are terrorists? Bin Laden is rich and so is his family. The al Quaida operatives that flew into the the World Trade Center weren't poor. It costs lots of money to take comercial jet flight lessons. A wealthy educated person would have an easier time getting an H1 visa or a student visa. A poor person wouldn't be educated nearly as well and would have gotten english lessons.

And they were living in large suburban houses?

I'm sorry, the entire season has offended me pretty badly, and this is a show I used to like, and the main actor is someone for whom I have a fair bit of respect.

The show IS propaganda; I don't make any strong claims that it was 'directed from above', but it is what it is, and I don't like it.

A sophisticated terror networks can't be in suburbia?
What is so offensive? The thought of educated Muslims being radicalized and planted somewhere years ahead of their scheduled acts? WTF? I don't get what there is to be offended about unless you have a very narrow view of what terrorism is or who it can radicalize.

How is the show "propaganda"? You keep trying to claim it has some agenda yet there is nothing to back it up. It's a drama show where the CTU agents do their job. *gasp* - you mean they actually find/kill/detain terrorists? OH TEH HOORRRAARRS :roll: There is no "'west before anything" world view - it's a farking TV show about a counter terrorism unit who's job it is to protect the US from terrorists

Sheesh - some people seem to want to rub their own "offended" nerve just to be offended it seems.

CsG

Wow, this is pointless.

I understand where you're coming from, but I really think you're missing every part of what I'm trying to say. Actually, that's not true - you're intentionally 'not getting' and mocking everything that I have to say.

The show is designed to reinforce the idea that 'every' muslim in America is a terror suspect. They have already tortured innocent people, with no repercussions (do you really think everyone you guys shipped off to Syria was guilty of something?).

Enjoy the rest of the season; the show is well acted, if nothing else.

"The show is designed to reinforce the idea that 'every' muslim in America is a terror suspect."
You have no basis to make such claims. Just because you feel offended doesn't mean the show was designed to do that.
Do you think the first season was "designed" to show that black politicians don't know their own family? :roll:
I think the problem here is your sensitivity set points have gotten knocked out of whack. Take time to reset them and then come back and take a look at the show. Either that or provide some proof of your claims.

CsG

 

[owensdj]

The show 24 also showed one of the downsides to torture. The Counter Terrorist Unit had strong evidence that one of their own agents was giving out information to the terrorists about what CTU was doing, so they tortured her to get her to tell them who she was working for. It turned out that she had been framed by another agent who was working for the terrorists.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Enjoy the rest of the season; the show is well acted, if nothing else.

So you're going to keep right on watching it, aren't you? Congratulations, you have made the Fox Network execs very happy since that is all they care about.

No, I stopped watching the show after a few episodes because I really did find it offensive. I watched the first two seasons completely, the third one wasn't great, and this one, while well written, acted and produced, I really can't stomache.

It's possible that I am being overly sensitive; I have two roommates who both enjoyed the show previously. One of them has a pretty similar take to the one I have, and the other, while he acknowledges what I'm saying about teh show, enjoys the suspense and drama and storyline enough that he still watches the show regularly.

Fox isn't crying over losing me as a viewer. I'm aware of this. I'm also not calling for the show to be cancelled/banned/sanctioned/whatever. I find the inability to even acknowledge what the show is about somewhat puzzling though.

 

[Votingisanillusion]

Originally posted by: owensdj
The show 24 also showed one of the downsides to torture. The Counter Terrorist Unit had strong evidence that one of their own agents was giving out information to the terrorists about what CTU was doing, so they tortured her to get her to tell them who she was working for. It turned out that she had been framed by another agent who was working for the terrorists.

C'mon! She just asks for a pay rise after having been tortured. It is not a human view of torture. The writers of the show are subconsciously telling the viewers: torture = money, getting tortured without suing your torturer is patriotic, torture is not that bad physically and psychologically: you can get back to work right after getting tortured, like a good obedient slave. Good dog!
You can even get a better position if you get tortured. But only if you ask once and are patient. If you ask twice you get fired because you are not obedient enough.
I am pretty sure even USSR TV never dared broadcast such a manipulative fiction.
Which shows that americans are brainwashed in a much more subtler way than the soviets were.
Torture of innocent citizens is patriotic.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
:laugh: This thread is hilarious. First we have the OP who has joined the ranks of BOBDN, Bbond, and a few others as mindless cut/paste twits. Then I think there are some people who actually agree with his anti-'24' rantings. I mean come on - '24' is gov't propaganda? Seriously man - get some sleep and/or leave your cult - it's seriously destroyed any logical reasoning you may have had.

BTW - I love '24' - I don't watch TV at all because everything sucks, but I'm hooked on '24'. I missed the first 3 seasons but I have the DVDs now and just finished season 2. I love it.

CsG

Hah!!!!! Evidence of a vast right wing conspiracy right there in bold!!!! I'm sorry Cad, but you are Bush's helpless puppet....however.....I guess the good thing is that when the right wingers begin feasting on the flesh of hippy liberals, you won't be on the menu. Whew!

I say, stick your finger in the wind and see which way it's blowin'.......err, either that or pull my finger and see which way the wind blows.....it's all the same to me.

 

[smc13]

Originally posted by: Votingisanillusion

Originally posted by: owensdj
The show 24 also showed one of the downsides to torture. The Counter Terrorist Unit had strong evidence that one of their own agents was giving out information to the terrorists about what CTU was doing, so they tortured her to get her to tell them who she was working for. It turned out that she had been framed by another agent who was working for the terrorists.

C'mon! She just asks for a pay rise after having been tortured. It is not a human view of torture. The writers of the show are subconsciously telling the viewers: torture = money, getting tortured without suing your torturer is patriotic, torture is not that bad physically and psychologically: you can get back to work right after getting tortured, like a good obedient slave. Good dog!
You can even get a better position if you get tortured. But only if you ask once and are patient. If you ask twice you get fired because you are not obedient enough.
I am pretty sure even USSR TV never dared broadcast such a manipulative fiction.
Which shows that americans are brainwashed in a much more subtler way than the soviets were.
Torture of innocent citizens is patriotic.

She does more then ask for a pay raise. She asks for a promotion, too!

This is funny, you seem to know a lot about the show. You do realize that you don't need to watch it, right? It is a TV show. You can turn the TV off or you can turn to a different channel. Really. You do not have to watch.

You're as bad as the anti-hollywood types who claim that smoking in movies makes kids smoke and that violence in movies causes kids to commit violence. What you are saying is that my watching someone commit torture on TV will brainwash me into thinking torture is good. Well, I watched many movies and have seen many people smoke and I still have never smoked. I have seen many violent movies and I still have managed to avoid shooting someone. I already thought torture was fine in cases such as they portray on this TV show. That you think torture is wrong in cases like they portray on the TV show is ridiculous. You would prefer thousands of people get murdered then having one person tortured?

Btw, Just in case you didn't know. 24 is a fictional portrayal. It is a TV show!

 

[Corn]

Awwww, this thread was moved into P&N (where it did belong)......please ignore any of my posts in this thread. You morons (and you know who you are) don't deserve to behold the glory of my sarcastic wit........El maíz esté con usted.