Fox News sued for spreading misinformation to the public

[Retro Rob]

Stop with the strawman.

Early Jan the federal government should have been deep in the planning stages. Trump didn't start taking this seriously until 2nd week in March when the stock market tanked. That got his attention. Example a total travel ban to/from China should have happened in Jan. We had enough information then to justify. In Jan we should have begun producing testing kits. South Korea in Jan planned to ramp up productions of tests.

By Feb 26 South Korea had tested over 46,000 people. The United States, 426. I consider that fact an abject failure.

Strawman? Where were these suggestions from you in December? Not a strawman. A honest question that you can prove/disprove by providing a quote.

 

[abj13]

Oh, and I wanted to add. I'm not tying to make this about Trump. Testing and infection patterns indicate massive community spread before it was detected.

And since they are not doing autopsies on dead bodies looking for Covid-19 specifically, we could have possibly had it here since even November and didn't know it was the cause of death.

You cannot find what you aren't looking for.

You are arguing that COVID-19 was possibly present in the US back in November 2019? Can you point to me some legitimate scientific data to support this absurd claim? Better yet, can you explain why this hypothesis would explain the phylogeny that is current observed with the SARS-CoV-2 strains, as it is not consistent with your conspiracy theory?

 

[fskimospy]

Oh, and I wanted to add. I'm not tying to make this about Trump. Testing and infection patterns indicate massive community spread before it was detected.

And since they are not doing autopsies on dead bodies looking for Covid-19 specifically, we could have possibly had it here since even November and didn't know it was the cause of death.

You cannot find what you aren't looking for.

Once you are alerted to the fact that it is here though you can begin preparations instead of doing nothing for two months, calling it a hoax, and encouraging people to engage in activities that cause additional infections. You know, just as a start.

The US and South Korea had our first confirmed cases on the same day. They would be a good example of the things we could have done if we had a competent government.

Also there’s no making it not about Trump - he’s in charge and he failed.

 

[Retro Rob]

You are arguing that COVID-19 was possibly present in the US back in November 2019? Can you point to me some legitimate scientific data to support this absurd claim? Better yet, can you explain why this hypothesis would explain the phylogeny that is current observed with the SARS-CoV-2 strains, as it is not consistent with your conspiracy theory?

lol did you even read my post? Where I mentioned "autopsies"?

Yes, you have to consider the possibility seeing the travel between here and China. That's really the only way to understand the origins of this virus here.

 

[Retro Rob]

Once you are alerted to the fact that it is here though you can begin preparations instead of doing nothing for two months, calling it a hoax, and encouraging people to engage in activities that cause additional infections. You know, just as a start.

The US and South Korea had our first confirmed cases on the same day. They would be a good example of the things we could have done if we had a competent government.

Also there’s no making it not about Trump - he’s in charge and he failed.

I'll ask you the same thing. Point me to ANY post you made on December 31 or shortly after suggesting these "preparations". Other wise, you're just arm-charing this thing like most other angry people.

See the funny thing about humans is that they NEED someone to blame instead of just addressing the issue at hand and worrying about blame during the fall.

Blame appears to be more important than fixing the problem.

 

[abj13]

lol did you even read my post? Where I mentioned "autopsies"?

Yes, you have to consider the possibility seeing the travel between here and China. That's really the only way to understand the origins of this virus here.

Quite a contortion to dodge my questions. You claimed that "they are not doing autopsies on dead bodies looking for Covid-19" so that the virus could have been in the US back in "November." The absence of evidence isn't scientific evidence, in any absurd world.

And no, the phylogeny of SARS-CoV-2 doesn't support a point transmission from the US to China. Can you point to me where this is supported? Or are you going to continue to make baseless claims and conspiracy theories?

 

[fskimospy]

I'll ask you the same thing. Point me to ANY post you made on December 31 or shortly after suggesting these "preparations". Other wise, you're just arm-charing this thing like most other angry people.

Unlike Trump I did not receive intelligence briefings and numerous reports telling me the possibility of a pandemic outbreak in the US was likely and that we should begin preparations.

This is genuinely baffling, he was repeatedly and explicitly warned and he did nothing. You’re either trying to pretend he wasn’t and was no more informed than the average citizen or you’re simply massively ignorant of what actually transpired and then shouldn’t be discussing this at all until you learn something about it.

See the funny thing and humans is that they NEED someone to blame instead of just addressing the issue at hand and worrying about blame during the fall.

The funny thing is you’re living in a fantasy world of denial and are now digging in as opposed to admitting you were wrong

 

[Retro Rob]

Quite a contortion to dodge my questions. You claimed that "they are not doing autopsies on dead bodies looking for Covid-19" so that the virus could have been in the US back in "November." The absence of evidence isn't scientific evidence, in any absurd world.

And no, the phylogeny of SARS-CoV-2 doesn't support a point transmission from the US to China. Can you point to me where this is supported? Or are you going to continue to make baseless claims and conspiracy theories?

Your political motivations are getting in the way I see. The point is, find out when and how it got here. That's the science behind this, your political views aside.

 

[fskimospy]

Your political motivations are getting in the way I see. The point is, find out when and how it got here. That's the science behind this, your political views aside.

Why can’t you just answer his question?

 

[Retro Rob]

Unlike Trump I did not receive intelligence briefings and numerous reports telling me the possibility of a pandemic outbreak in the US was likely and that we should begin preparations.

Thank you. So how are you in ANY position to say what should have been done in December, when you're admitting ignorance of any intelligence back then?

That's the entire point.

 

[abj13]

Your political motivations are getting in the way I see. The point is, find out when and how it got here. That's the science behind this, your political views aside.

Huh? That makes zero sense. I asked for scientific evidence that COVID-19 was infecting people in the US in November 2019. You have provided zero evidence. And all you can respond now with is some idiotic "political motivations" to try to shoot the messenger. How is asking for simple evidence behind your conspiracy theory "political motivations?" Sounds like you are simply projecting your "political motivations" since you are so committed to trying to promote this conspiracy theory that COVID-19 was in the US in November 2019.

Please, show us the phylogenetic data that supports US transmission of COVID-19 to China in November 2019.

 

[Retro Rob]

Huh? That makes zero sense. I asked for scientific evidence that COVID-19 was infecting people in the US in November 2019. You have provided zero evidence. And all you can respond now with is some idiotic "political motivations" to try to shoot the messenger. How is asking for simple evidence behind your conspiracy theory "political motivations?" Sounds like you are simply projecting your "political motivations" since you are so committed to trying to promote this conspiracy theory that COVID-19 was in the US in November 2019.

Please, show us the phylogenetic data that supports US transmission of COVID-19 to China in November 2019.

I asked you to re-read my post. So quote me, where I stated it was here in November as a matter of fact.

 

[fskimospy]

Thank you. So how are you in ANY position to say what should have been done in December, when you're admitting ignorance of any intelligence?

That's the entire point.

Are you fucking kidding me. Because I wasn’t warned in December 2019 I can’t criticize people who were repeatedly warned and did nothing?

Seriously, take a step back and listen to yourself. This is an impossibly stupid argument.

 

[brycejones]

I see another “totally think trump is an idiot but no one could have seen this coming” “independent” has picked up the baton and is rehashing the same shitty arguments.

 

[abj13]

I asked you to re-read my post. So quote me, where I stated it was here in November as a matter of fact.

"And since they are not doing autopsies on dead bodies looking for Covid-19 specifically, we could have possibly had it here since even November and didn't know it was the cause of death."

My response: You are arguing that COVID-19 was possibly present in the US back in November 2019? Can you point to me some legitimate scientific data to support this absurd claim? Better yet, can you explain why this hypothesis would explain the phylogeny that is current observed with the SARS-CoV-2 strains, as it is not consistent with your conspiracy theory?

 

[fskimospy]

I see another “totally think trump is an idiot but no one could have seen this coming” “independent” has picked up the baton and is rehashing the same shitty arguments.

It is kind of funny/sad that they will continue to make the ‘nobody could have seen this coming’ arguments despite numerous published reports that they were told it was coming and instead chose to lie and do nothing.

 

[Vic]

Thank you. So how are you in ANY position to say what should have been done in December, when you're admitting ignorance of any intelligence back then?

That's the entire point.

So your entire point is that the President can't be held responsible for not acting on information he did have, because average citizens who didn't have access to that information didn't act?

Seriously?


The clearest sign of a poor leader is that they blame others for their own failures. Worse still are the people who apologize for such poor leadership by expanding the blame to those without any decision-making powers.

 

[Jhhnn]

Strawman? Where were these suggestions from you in December? Not a strawman. A honest question that you can prove/disprove by providing a quote.

It's not like we elected Homer JS president, is it? Or that he has an enormous staff to bring him expert opinion, either. Oh, wait... that's not the criteria Trump uses in selecting staff, is it?

I'll grant that Trump started with a public health system stunted by decades of anti-soshulist GOP ideology he didn't give a flying fuck about, anyway. OTOH, he just handled it the same way he's handled things his whole life- he tried to power bullshit his way through. He has alternative facts for everything, even a deadly viral pandemic.

 

[Retro Rob]

Are you fucking kidding me. Because I wasn’t warned in December 2019 I can’t criticize people who were repeatedly warned and did nothing?

Seriously, take a step back and listen to yourself. This is an impossibly stupid argument.

Hey, grab a coke. Chill out. We're adults and can respectfully disagree. You can absolutely criticizes decisions, but to act as if you would have been on board with containment measures (I,e "lockdowns"), in December, when you admit to being ignorant is preposterous.

No matter who made the choice, you, just like MOST OTHER PEOPLE WHO DID, would have been like this was overboard. Almost like those who said a travel ban on China was "xenophobic" and now saying it should have been done sooner.

 

[Retro Rob]

"And since they are not doing autopsies on dead bodies looking for Covid-19 specifically, we could have possibly had it here since even November and didn't know it was the cause of death."

My response: You are arguing that COVID-19 was possibly present in the US back in November 2019? Can you point to me some legitimate scientific data to support this absurd claim? Better yet, can you explain why this hypothesis would explain the phylogeny that is current observed with the SARS-CoV-2 strains, as it is not consistent with your conspiracy theory?

Possibly. Speculative term. Not a statement of fact or a claim.

 

[fskimospy]

Hey, grab a coke. Chill out. We're adults and can respectfully disagree. You can absolutely criticizes decisions, but to act as if you would have been on board with containment measures (I,e "lockdowns"), in December, when you admit to being ignorant is preposterous.

No matter who made the choice, you, just like MOST OTHER PEOPLE WHO DID, would have been like this was overboard. Almost like those who said a travel ban on China was "xenophobic" and now saying it should have been done sooner.

I agree that people can respectfully disagree but respect also involves honesty and I’m being completely honest when I say that this argument is extremely stupid. The president should or should not be held accountable based on the information HE had, not the information I had.

I have never once claimed that I would have advocated a lockdown in December nor have I ever criticized Trump for not implementing one then. What I have criticized him for is the fact that he also spent January, February, and half of March doing nothing and in fact actively making the situation worse. He was told a pandemic was likely and his answer was to lie to the public and then go golfing.

Again it is frankly unbelievable after this incredible display of sloth and incompetence that you’re trying to argue nothing could have been done to make this better. Unbelievable.

 

[abj13]

Possibly. Speculative term. Not a statement of fact or a claim.

Here we go, suddenly moving the goal posts with a weak distraction attempt with semantics. You made the claim that COVID-19 was possibly in the US in November 2019. Can you explain to all of us, despite the abundance of world data demonstrating the focalpoint of transmission was in China in December, that there's any reason to believe your claim?

Or are you posting this absurd conspiracy theory because your willingness to try to distort the truth because of your "political motivations?"

 

[Jhhnn]

Hey, grab a coke. Chill out. We're adults and can respectfully disagree. You can absolutely criticizes decisions, but to act as if you would have been on board with containment measures (I,e "lockdowns"), in December, when you admit to being ignorant is preposterous.

No matter who made the choice, you, just like MOST OTHER PEOPLE WHO DID, would have been like this was overboard. Almost like those who said a travel ban on China was "xenophobic" and now saying it should have been done sooner.

You're being terribly dishonest in posing a hypothetical you alone offered up & engaging in speculation while going on about science. What's your argument? That incompetence & dithering don't matter because we were already fucked in December? Oh, wait.. maybe November! Because reasons.

 

[outriding]

You can address the question. No one would have accepted the idea of a shutdown on New Year's Eve, because they would have said that the evidence doesn't warrant going after a fly with a bazooka.

Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20.

Could have cared less about it if the lock down was on NYE.

Hindsight is a crutch for the stupid.

Everyone with 2 functioning brain cells saw this coming.

 

[Retro Rob]

I agree that people can respectfully disagree but respect also involves honesty and I’m being completely honest when I say that this argument is extremely stupid. The president should or should not be held accountable based on the information HE had, not the information I had.

I have never once claimed that I would have advocated a lockdown in December nor have I ever criticized Trump for not implementing one then. What I have criticized him for is the fact that he also spent January, February, and half of March doing nothing and in fact actively making the situation worse. He was told a pandemic was likely and his answer was to lie to the public and then go golfing.

Again it is frankly unbelievable after this incredible display of sloth and incompetence that you’re trying to argue nothing could have been done to make this better. Unbelievable.

The point I want to make is that the hypocrisy is strong here. Banning travel from China was racist and xenophobic. But it should have been done sooner. You wouldn't have wanted strong containment measures (like lockingdown) but he didn't do enough.

Politics is awfully blinding....