Former Iran Defence Minister

[BaliBabyDoc]

My guess is that if the US:
1) had not deposed popular ruler of Iran
2) had not supported an unpopular shah of Iran
3) had not supported a Sunni dictator in Iraq
4) had supported democratic institutions in Lebanon
5) had supported democratic institutions in the Occupied Territories
6) had not supported Mubarak in Egypt
7) had not supported oligarchs in Saudi Arabia

It wouldn't matter as much that we've been Israel's enabler for the past three decades. Countries (and the people) of the region would look at us as being a somewhat fair participant in the region. Instead they look at us for what we do . . . we support Israel without condition and our primary interest in the region is access to oil.

 

[Lemon law]

wierd contention---ayabe---The world is raised to hate Jews and 90% of the people have no idea why they hate Jews. The other 10% hate Jews because they are wealthy and are jealous.

According to that 100% of all all people hate jews--and the 100% figure would have to include jews also.

You are greatly over generalizing---and raising smokescreen.

 

[Aimster]

Iran hates the U.S not because of Israel.
Iran hates the U.S because the U.S put a puppet regime in power in Iran that spent 35% of their GDP on U.S military toys. If you look at what Iran was to become in the 1980s they would have had the largest military, air force, and navy in the entire Middle East and Western Asia. They would have had 20+ nuclear reactors. The Shah was pushing Iran for power by thinking military = power without pushing for education and paying attention to the poor. The poor turned to Islam for help and attacked the regime that betrayed them.

U.S service members were stationed in Iran and were treated with more respect by the Iranian govt than the average Iranian citizen.
The Shah was trying to turn Iran into the United States. If you look at pictures of Iran during the Shah regime it almost looks like the U.S. The way they dressed and acted.

As a result of the fall of Shah, the U.S has been trying everything in their power to overthrow the current Iranian regime. That is why the two are enemies.

Iran supports Arabs against Israel as a way to say F-You U.S. If the U.S wasn't a close kiss ass state with Israel, then Iran would probably not give .02 about Arabs who wished Persians dead.

Persians hate Arabs. Arabs united and attacked the Persian state. They were chanting in the streets wishing for their death. Iran and Israel have something in common. Both have been victims of a massive Arab attack. Yet, it is Iran who supports the very people who wished them dead. Stupid mullah govt. Lack of education and common sense.

 

[rickn]

If this guy can provide verifiable proof, and when I say verifiable proof, that doesn't include anything coming out of the mouth of G.W Bush. Then more power to him

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Aimster
The former defense minister of Iran has gone missing. He disappeared while he was inside Turkey.

Why is this big news? He knows everything about the Iranian regime. He has the knowledge of all their military training and hardware. He knows where all the key locations are.
He can even shed light on Iran's involvement with Hezbollah and their prisoners (good for Israel). All of Iran's secret nuclear sites will no longer be a secret anymore.

According to the Arabs/Israelis he has defected. Now some Iranian sources are saying it looks like he ran off on his own too. Before they were accusing the Mossad of kidnapping him. There is still doubt as to what happened to him, but it is leaning towards defection.

He wants to come to the United States.

Congrats. The West will now know everything about Iran's military and nuclear infrastructure. I bet Iran, Russian, and China are pissing themselves. Iran because everything is going to be made public. Russia and China because they probably gave Iran weapons they didn't want the West to know (defense systems, aircraft, etc).

Last time Americans claimed Russia would be pissing themselves was when we invaded Iraq, and we are the ones who have been pissing blood and treasure there for 4 years.
Frankly, let's say you get complete maps and info of all Iranian installations and forces. So what? We still don't have the forces to invade Iran, and Iran can make Iraq a living hell for us by training and supplying Shiite insurgents. As far as Russia and China, we have no influence over Russia, their main export is energy, and we need China's money to finance our deficits and their cheap junk to keep our inflation down.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Its somewhat a question of why he defected---he's retired and maybe out of favor---and now he wants attention and his 15 minutes of fame for fun and profit.---maybe the guy has some intel of value--but the location of the nuclear fatalities are fairly well known already. The problem is that they are build deep underground---too deep for conventional explosive bunker busting type bombs---and its likely going to take nuclear type bunker busters to take them out.----are any attacking powers like Israel or the USA prepared to take the nuclear step?---or even the conventional bombing step----when Iran---as the attacked party would have every right to retaliate---and unlike Saddam---Iran is hardly a paper tiger or toothless.

In the international espionage game---defectors are always routine---so you minimize the damage---and move on. And have to be very careful in believing the defector you get---they may be playing curveball or screwball games with you.

More Holiday Inn Express intel expertise from the Lemon... yay!

I digress...

If he really is in Western hands, this is GREAT news! High-ranking defectors generally have more intelligence value than even they themselves realize...

 

[ThePresence]

Text

Former Iranian Deputy Defense Minister Ali Rez Asgari left Turkey for an undisclosed location in Europe with a false passport with the help of Western officials, the London-based Asharq al-Awsat newspaper reported Friday.

A former colleague told the newspaper that Asgari took with him documents and maps that shed light on Iran?s military and the Revolutionary Guards' links to Hizbullah, Islamic Jihad, the ?Mahadi Army? and the ?Badr Corps? (military forces of The Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq).

The Iranian source said Asgari was also in possession of documents related to Iran?s ballistic missiles project and was privy to confidential information regarding the Islamic Republic?s plan in case of a conflict with the US.

A senior American official said on Thursday that Asgari is providing Western intelligence agencies with information on Hizbullah and Iran's ties to the organization.

Saudi newspaper Al-Watan recently reported the Iranian Revolutionary Guards are instilling changes in the defense systems protecting the country?s nuclear reactors for fear that Israeli and US intelligence agencies are now in possession of specific information that may threaten the facilities.

According to Asharq al-Awsat, Asgari informed an American official of his desire to defect a few weeks in advance, after which he was quickly transferred to a safe house in Turkey and given a false passport.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
wierd contention---ayabe---The world is raised to hate Jews and 90% of the people have no idea why they hate Jews. The other 10% hate Jews because they are wealthy and are jealous.

According to that 100% of all all people hate jews--and the 100% figure would have to include jews also.

You are greatly over generalizing---and raising smokescreen.

Hard to tell what you mean but don't attribute that to me, I didn't say it.

Not everyone hates Jews and I myself don't see the word Jew and Israeli as being synonymous but to each his own.

To Aimster -

Sure I know all about the Shah and the history of US and Iranian relations.

But have you stopped to consider that because the US is so Pro-Israel that Iran might be attempting to buffer that by providing arms and money to Hezbo and the rest? Perhaps this whole issue would have been settled years ago if we hadn't been pumping the Israeli military for decades with American taxpayer money.

We haven't stepped to the table to provide leadership on this entire issue for many years and yet continue to back Israel, we are not a neutral partner. This breeds resentment towards us obviously.

Israel would not have nuclear weapons if it weren't for the US, if they didn't have nukes then Iran probably wouldn't be trying to get them now.

It's all related.

The USA's relationship with Israel isn't the sole cause of tensions with Iran, but it's a contributor, a major contributor.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: ayabe
Israel would not have nuclear weapons if it weren't for the US, if they didn't have nukes then Iran probably wouldn't be trying to get them now.

I'm curious what you base that statement on. It was French cooperation with Israel in the early days which led to Israel's aquiring nukes. The US may have even been against it.

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: k1pp3r
wow, this thread went downhill.

They usually do.

Very little actual debate, just slurs and innuendo thrown back and forth.

Tho, sometimes fun to watch idiots make fools of themselves while not realizing how what they are criticizing in their opponent is the same behavior they are exhibiting.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: ayabe
Israel would not have nuclear weapons if it weren't for the US, if they didn't have nukes then Iran probably wouldn't be trying to get them now.

Israel got nuclear technology from France.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: ayabe
Israel would not have nuclear weapons if it weren't for the US, if they didn't have nukes then Iran probably wouldn't be trying to get them now.

Israel got nuclear technology from France.

One of the few things the French have done that is good :thumbsup:

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: ayabe
Israel would not have nuclear weapons if it weren't for the US, if they didn't have nukes then Iran probably wouldn't be trying to get them now.

Israel got nuclear technology from France.

One of the few things the French have done that is good :thumbsup:

What strikes me about those voicing sympathy for radical Islam, is that they would let Iran do as it pleases with nuclear technology.

Yet, in 1930 before the war started would they too have allowed Germany to dabble in nuclear power were it available at the time? I believe that answer is yes, to achieve "peace for our time" Chamberlain?s view is alive and well today. Evil has free reign to prepare the next war as it did then.

We have failed, Iraq was not our nuclear opponent, and now our left side binds us to the Chamberlain view. We?ve incapacitated ourselves as a form of revenge for Iraq. That does not bode well for dealing with our opponents.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: dna
Hm, Israel may have orchestrated it:

Another US official, who spoke to the Washington Post on the condition of anonymity, suggested that Asghari's disappearance was voluntary and was orchestrated by Israel.

Wadda ya know? I guess it is worth having a true ally in the Middle East.
Reminds me of the MIG-21 defection organized in 1966, later on provided to the US for analysis.

Let's see how this plays out before we start jumping for joy.

Also, let's not forget that our relationship with Iran might be different today without our unabashed support of Israel in all matters. So it's only fitting that they help diffuse the situation a little bit.

But I digress

rofl@Ayabe we all know where you stand.....rofl.....hahahaa
That`s the best spin you can put on this..lol