Form Check Thread

[CPA]

I don't rip in to Rip. I point people to SS that I don't coach as I can't be f0cked to correct everyone that asks at the gym. It's a waste of my time. I always favor the high bar oly squat. I just let people do what they do. If it's to parallel it's all good.

Koing

Oh, don't get me wrong, I used the high bar position for 27 years. I tried Rips way after reading his books and viewing his videos. For me, the LBS felt more natural and I had less pain on my lower back and knees. Oh, and no more bar wear and tear on my traps. I use low bar method exclusively now.

 

[Koing]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I used the high bar position for 27 years. I tried Rips way after reading his books and viewing his videos. For me, the LBS felt more natural and I had less pain on my lower back and knees. Oh, and no more bar wear and tear on my traps. I use low bar method exclusively now.

I see.

Koing

 

[Saint Nick]

Couple sets from today. http://youtu.be/QJPZier2J6g

Been doing lots of leg windmills and goblet squats. I actually put weight on the bar today, albeit small.

 

[repoman0]

Squats. Help!

I have a really hard time lifting any reasonable amount of weight if I try to just break parallel, as opposed to sinking to the very bottom of my range of motion. I took videos of each yesterday:

This first version of my back squat is what feels the best (easiest, least hard on knees, and I can lift a lot more):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIuSCKyRpQ0

This I did right after and tried to stop at what most would consider a reasonable squat depth -- felt much harder than 135lbs should ever feel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkXIu_WcZtM

And again tried to stay at a reasonable depth with more weight (I know these look kind of ugly):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSonxYpyFq8

Any comments and tips would really be appreciated.

 

[repoman0]

Couple sets from today. http://youtu.be/QJPZier2J6g

Been doing lots of leg windmills and goblet squats. I actually put weight on the bar today, albeit small.

Obviously I'm no super expert but it looks like your feet are awfully far apart and at a pretty extreme angle. I'd feel super off balance in that stance. Maybe try standing with your feet a little closer and angled further inward?

 

[mple]

Squats. Help!

I have a really hard time lifting any reasonable amount of weight if I try to just break parallel, as opposed to sinking to the very bottom of my range of motion. I took videos of each yesterday:

This first version of my back squat is what feels the best (easiest, least hard on knees, and I can lift a lot more):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIuSCKyRpQ0

This I did right after and tried to stop at what most would consider a reasonable squat depth -- felt much harder than 135lbs should ever feel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkXIu_WcZtM

And again tried to stay at a reasonable depth with more weight (I know these look kind of ugly):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSonxYpyFq8

Any comments and tips would really be appreciated.

I personally think the first video looks the best, especially if you aren't getting any sort of pain from doing them. I am noticing a bit of butt wink which you can improve with more mobility work. Good video from Elliot below which you might find useful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLBeGADBn4w

 

[Koing]

Couple sets from today. http://youtu.be/QJPZier2J6g

Been doing lots of leg windmills and goblet squats. I actually put weight on the bar today, albeit small.

Post a video of you doing goblet squats. It's improving but your ankle mobility is not helping you out. Keep on the grind and your squats will be better

I second pointing your toes in a tad and moving your stance a tiny bit in. But some guys with slightly wider than usual, so it isn't too big of an issue. Keep on the stretching.

Koing

 

[Koing]

Squats. Help!

I have a really hard time lifting any reasonable amount of weight if I try to just break parallel, as opposed to sinking to the very bottom of my range of motion. I took videos of each yesterday:

This first version of my back squat is what feels the best (easiest, least hard on knees, and I can lift a lot more):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIuSCKyRpQ0

This I did right after and tried to stop at what most would consider a reasonable squat depth -- felt much harder than 135lbs should ever feel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkXIu_WcZtM

And again tried to stay at a reasonable depth with more weight (I know these look kind of ugly):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSonxYpyFq8

Any comments and tips would really be appreciated.

First set is the best. Good squats mate.

Last video your leaving your hips behind a tad but it's not bad at all and you were going a bit heavier. Stand more upright to start with.

I like to tell people if they have the shoulder mobility to push their elbows under the bar as this will help keep their backs even more upright.

But overall solid form on the 1st set. I'd get some oly shoes or some flat sole shoes man.

Koing

 

[Saint Nick]

Do I just need to move my feet closer together? If that's it then I'm getting pretty close, I hope. The only thing I noticed between repo and my squats was I stand a lot wider than he did.

I'm not sure what you mean by "ankle mobility".

 

[repoman0]

Awesome, thanks Koing and mple. I had posted a set a couple months back where I went to the bottom of my range of motion and I guess I wasn't flexible enough for it yet, so SC said to stop doing it or I was gonna hurt my back. Guess finally starting all this stretching has paid off! Seriously I had noticed a huge improvement in doing the stretches themselves but for whatever reason I'm surprised that the 5-10 minutes 3x/week I spend on it carried over to real exercises.

I think that squats are harder if I try to stop at/slightly below parallel because my hamstrings hardly have any tension in them yet at that point to help me back up.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Squats. Help!

I have a really hard time lifting any reasonable amount of weight if I try to just break parallel, as opposed to sinking to the very bottom of my range of motion. I took videos of each yesterday:

This first version of my back squat is what feels the best (easiest, least hard on knees, and I can lift a lot more):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIuSCKyRpQ0

This I did right after and tried to stop at what most would consider a reasonable squat depth -- felt much harder than 135lbs should ever feel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkXIu_WcZtM

And again tried to stay at a reasonable depth with more weight (I know these look kind of ugly):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSonxYpyFq8

Any comments and tips would really be appreciated.

Those videos show some serious improvement in your form. Your depth is great and your back is solid throughout. The one thing I would mention is that you tend to actually over-arch you back when coming back up on the last video. This is a bit difficult to change sometimes, but try to squeeze your butt as you come up. That should help correct it more toward neutral. Overall, I'd say great improvement from a couple of simple tips I made.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Couple sets from today. http://youtu.be/QJPZier2J6g

Been doing lots of leg windmills and goblet squats. I actually put weight on the bar today, albeit small.

You have an interesting way of initiating squats. You essentially start by bending your knees when you should really start by bending at the hips. This requires you to almost push your butt back and engages the posterior chain (glutes, hamstrings, back extensors) way more. I think your depth is fine, but I definitely think you need to work on your hip drive (what I'm talking about). You may want to watch this video for a bit more guidance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yha2XAc2qu8

 

[Koing]

Do I just need to move my feet closer together? If that's it then I'm getting pretty close, I hope. The only thing I noticed between repo and my squats was I stand a lot wider than he did.

I'm not sure what you mean by "ankle mobility".

Repo is a lot more flexible than you are. Just be patient and work on the things mentioned and you will get it in time. It doesn't happen over night but it will take weeks to get your mobility to where you want it to be.

Watch repo's ankle mobility. He can get his knees further out so he can *sit down* and keep his chest more upright.

Koing

 

[Koing]

Awesome, thanks Koing and mple. I had posted a set a couple months back where I went to the bottom of my range of motion and I guess I wasn't flexible enough for it yet, so SC said to stop doing it or I was gonna hurt my back. Guess finally starting all this stretching has paid off! Seriously I had noticed a huge improvement in doing the stretches themselves but for whatever reason I'm surprised that the 5-10 minutes 3x/week I spend on it carried over to real exercises.

I think that squats are harder if I try to stop at/slightly below parallel because my hamstrings hardly have any tension in them yet at that point to help me back up.

What did you expect the stretching to do? NOT IMPROVE your mobility and thus transfer in to squats? j/k yes it works and this is why I tell people to do dynamic stretches pre training. BUT most people are TOO LAZY to do so. If you put in the 8-10mins pre training 3-5x a week you will quickly realise the results in much better mobility.

Just squat as you are. Your form is solid. Better than 99% of people on youtube.

Koing

 

[Blackjack200]

Low bar back squat:
http://youtu.be/5sMQWCv_az8

Overhead Press:
http://youtu.be/FLo5QMs1NHA

Deadlift:
http://youtu.be/55VmdpGhKX8

Any comments/coaching appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Low bar back squat:
http://youtu.be/5sMQWCv_az8

Overhead Press:
http://youtu.be/FLo5QMs1NHA

Deadlift:
http://youtu.be/55VmdpGhKX8

Any comments/coaching appreciated.

Thanks!

Squats are too low for your hip ROM. If you notice, once you get past a certain point pretty low in the squat, your back starts to round (aka the butt wink). The butt wink puts you at high risk of disc injury so you gotta fix that.

With the overhead press, there are a couple of things you need to fix. You need to keep your core nice and tight - you're overextending (over-arching) your back at most points in the lift. In addition, your bar speed is very irregular. You lock it out very quickly, but are very slow from the bottom. Moderate that better - maintain consistent control of the bar throughout. Slow and controlled creates for a better, safer motor program for heavy lifting.

Lastly, are you doing deadlifts in olympic weightlifting shoes? That's what they look like to me. If so, change that. Oly shoes are for squats and Oly lifts, but nothing else. Your deadlifts overall look safe and good. One minor thing to change is for you not to raise your hips without raising the bar. If you notice at the beginning of your first few reps, the hips move up and the bar doesn't go anywhere. You gotta control it so that as soon as your hips move, the slack in the bar should be taken up, and the bar should be moving as well.

Hope that helps.

 

[Blackjack200]

Squats are too low for your hip ROM. If you notice, once you get past a certain point pretty low in the squat, your back starts to round (aka the butt wink). The butt wink puts you at high risk of disc injury so you gotta fix that.

Really? I did see the butt wink, but it looked pretty mild to me, I agree, either way that I need to address it.

With the overhead press, there are a couple of things you need to fix. You need to keep your core nice and tight - you're overextending (over-arching) your back at most points in the lift. In addition, your bar speed is very irregular. You lock it out very quickly, but are very slow from the bottom. Moderate that better - maintain consistent control of the bar throughout. Slow and controlled creates for a better, safer motor program for heavy lifting.

Yeah, I try to tighten my core up as much as I can, it's improved but it needs to get better. As far as the back, I think it needs to be in that position to keep the bar over the middle of my foot. As far as bar speed is concerned, I try to be as explosive as possible on the lifts, the bar is slower out of the bottom because I'm not as strong down there.

Lastly, are you doing deadlifts in olympic weightlifting shoes? That's what they look like to me. If so, change that. Oly shoes are for squats and Oly lifts, but nothing else. Your deadlifts overall look safe and good. One minor thing to change is for you not to raise your hips without raising the bar. If you notice at the beginning of your first few reps, the hips move up and the bar doesn't go anywhere. You gotta control it so that as soon as your hips move, the slack in the bar should be taken up, and the bar should be moving as well.

Hope that helps.

Yeah, I'll try to make sure I'm not extending my knees before the bar moves up, as far as the shoes are concerned, yes, their Oly shoes, but I wear them for all the compound movements including the Press and Deadlift. I even wear them for the bench press, but that's mainly because I don't see any point to changing shoes. Are there any issues with that? The only thing I can think of is that the bar has to go up another half inch in the deadliest, but that doesn't seem like too big a deal.

Thanks for the tips!

 

[Koing]

Squats look good to me, a bit of butt wink, that is more noticeable on your first rep. Just keep an eye on it, but it isn't that bad imo.

MP, brace your trunk more. How wide are your feet? You are pressing the bar a bit too far backwards now as you are losing your balance. Try and press faster off the bottom. Your lock out speed is good but you are slow off the bottom.

It's fine to wear oly shoes for dl or any gym work that doesn't involve running. It's only about an inch higher than if you were barefooted. Focus more on keeping your hips down but they will come up a tad but it's pretty good overall.

Koing

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Really? I did see the butt wink, but it looked pretty mild to me, I agree, either way that I need to address it.

Yeah, I try to tighten my core up as much as I can, it's improved but it needs to get better. As far as the back, I think it needs to be in that position to keep the bar over the middle of my foot. As far as bar speed is concerned, I try to be as explosive as possible on the lifts, the bar is slower out of the bottom because I'm not as strong down there.

Yeah, I'll try to make sure I'm not extending my knees before the bar moves up, as far as the shoes are concerned, yes, their Oly shoes, but I wear them for all the compound movements including the Press and Deadlift. I even wear them for the bench press, but that's mainly because I don't see any point to changing shoes. Are there any issues with that? The only thing I can think of is that the bar has to go up another half inch in the deadliest, but that doesn't seem like too big a deal.

Thanks for the tips!

Any butt wink is unacceptable when you're squatting with a barbell. Your discs are heavily loaded. When in a neutral position, they accept the load well, the pressure is relatively evenly distributed, and your risk of injury is low. As soon as you go into any flexion, you significantly increase your risk of creating a herniation of the disc. Some coaches may say a little bit is fine, but because I work in physical therapy, I'm around to optimize performance AND longevity.

That's not actually how it has to work though. Your form is not right there. Look up someone with a solid overhead press. You will experience some thoracic extension, but you should not experience much lumbar extension (low back). You are getting a TON of lumbar extension. It could be because you're actually tight in your shoulders and don't get enough passive or active shoulder flexion and you're compensation at your low back (pretty common problem). And your explosiveness is awkward - it's not well controlled. The overhead press is not supposed to be explosive. If you want explosive, you should be doing the push press. The press should be well controlled.

There's a huge issue with wearing Oly shoes while deadlifting. The raised heel pitches your center of mass forward on your base of support (in sagittal plane, more on your toes). That means you have to actively utilize energy to prevent yourself from going too far forward. If you want to lift to get stronger as quick as you can, just take the shoes off or switch to a nice flat shoe (converse all stars work well). The energy will be transferred into the lift as opposed to trying to balance. No strength coach would ever suggest you do that. It changes the lift and the muscular activation quite a bit.

 

[repoman0]

Thanks koing / SC! Glad they've improved with a lot of helpful tips from both of you.

blackjack200: the stretch that's been most helpful for me for squats is lay on your back with while keeping your back arched and use some sort of rope to pull one leg back towards your head while it's in the air and straight. Hold it for 6 seconds or so and then release the tension in your leg by letting go of the rope a little, and then pull it back a little further. Repeat 5 times per leg. Also make sure you're keeping your back arched this whole time, it's easy to let it go a little bit because it will allow you to pull your leg further back at first. The goal is to be able to have your leg straight and at a 90 degree angle with respect to the ground and still have your back arched. I could only get around a 60 degree angle at first.

Probably has a name but for the life of me I can't remember

 

[Blackjack200]

Yeah, I used to d those stretches in PT for my ankle sprain. The version I preferred was to do it standing with my foot propped up on a chair or desk.

 

[Blackjack200]

More squats. All three work sets from today (225 x 5 x 3). Comments/criticism appreciated.

http://youtu.be/_QcgLXPCaR0
http://youtu.be/nzlzG1iQN2A
http://youtu.be/61sFNGZ06xY

I'm pretty happy with these, there are a couple in there that might not be parallel, but I think most are deep, and I thought I kept my back in pretty good shape. One irritating problem. I keep straining my neck. I've seriously had a stiff neck for about 3 weeks now, and I keep aggravating it when I squat. I try not to look up, but in the videos it looks like I may be looking up a little, you can also see my neck straining as I fight to get the weight up. I don't know how to not do this :/

btw, the guy doing pullups in the mirror in the second video is Matt. He's cool as hell. He's one of only two people at the gym I see doing real compound lifts and doing them correctly. Notice how his pullups go to a dead hang? He's the only person I see doing that, and I see lots of pullups at the gym. Today he was doing squats (he told me he squats four times a week) and Romanian Deadlifts.

 

[Saint Nick]

Here are some sets from Thursday, 7/11. I've been watching lots of videos, doing mobility work, and just practicing with the bar. I changed my grip, and am not resting the bar so low on my back anymore. The bar now "sits" in the little groove that forms when you stick your elbows out. I think I understand the hip drive a lot better.

I'm not completely there yet, but I think it is getting better. I noticed that a few times I sort of turn it into a squat/good morning hybrid by driving my hips, then standing up straight. I'm not sure if this is because I'm still stiff or if I just am not doing the movement correctly. I'm still not "looking forward" in my opinion which makes my back look real straight. I notice a lot of other guys almost have a curvature to their spine while squatting because they keep their head up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oM-xLqW-HU

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Here are some sets from Thursday, 7/11. I've been watching lots of videos, doing mobility work, and just practicing with the bar. I changed my grip, and am not resting the bar so low on my back anymore. The bar now "sits" in the little groove that forms when you stick your elbows out. I think I understand the hip drive a lot better.

I'm not completely there yet, but I think it is getting better. I noticed that a few times I sort of turn it into a squat/good morning hybrid by driving my hips, then standing up straight. I'm not sure if this is because I'm still stiff or if I just am not doing the movement correctly. I'm still not "looking forward" in my opinion which makes my back look real straight. I notice a lot of other guys almost have a curvature to their spine while squatting because they keep their head up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oM-xLqW-HU

Better. The one issue you have is the one you know you have - the squat turning into a weird squat/good morning hybrid. This is happening because you're still pushing your hips back as hard as you can... That's more important for the descent. When you are coming back up, you should try to stand up and squeeze your glutes like you're trying to bring your hips forward. Essentially, it's like the end motion of humping something. It's a terrible analogy but the only thing I can think of that makes sense in text. You squeeze your butt to get your pelvis up and forward. Also, refer to this:

http://stronglifts.com/how-to-avoid-leaning-forward-on-squats/

 

[Saint Nick]

Thanks SC. I'll keep working on it.