Forecast: Six-Speed Automatics To Dominate U.S. Market

[Eli]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: andylawcc
urrr.. isn't CVT far more efficient?

...and annoying?

The engine note when driving one is VERY weird IMHO.

Hmmm.... Now I'm interested in hearing this.

Does it basically just only change pitch slightly as you climb in speed? :Q Or is it like, backwards? RPMs start high and decrease as you accelerate?

That'd be really weird. Does it at least keep the engine in it's peak powerband?

 

[ultimatebob]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Leather (Cloth is INFINITELY superior)

Wrong. Leather wears better (wooo, 20 minutes to condition once a year, that's so inconvenient :roll: ) and is infinitely easier to clean. Not only that, but real leather is not cold in the winter like Vinyl is, nor is is unbearable in the summer (my daily has a black leather interior and the seats never have heat problems in the summer).

ZV

Cloth is also a lot more easily stained, too, while leather repels dirt and liquids nicely.

 

[EyeMWing]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Leather (Cloth is INFINITELY superior)

Wrong. Leather wears better (wooo, 20 minutes to condition once a year, that's so inconvenient :roll: ) and is infinitely easier to clean. Not only that, but real leather is not cold in the winter like Vinyl is, nor is is unbearable in the summer (my daily has a black leather interior and the seats never have heat problems in the summer).

ZV

And 5 minutes with a vacuum cleaner every 3 months or so is inconvenient?

And it's not the hot/cold thing that's the issue - it's how any exposed, sweaty skin sticks to it. It's nasty.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Aren't these 6 speed automatic transmissions going to add about $1,500 to the total price of the car over the price of a four speed? You're going to need to put a LOT of miles on your car for that 4% mileage improvement to pay for itself. Not to mention that these newer transmissions will be more expensive to replace when they break, and they probably will break down more often thanks to all of the extra parts.

Back in the day we all drove 3-speed autos, and I'm sure that someone thought that the new 4-speeds would be sucky and unreliable too

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
it's how any exposed, sweaty skin sticks to it. It's nasty.

nasty compare to the cloth SOAKING up fluid from your exposed, sweaty skin?

and back to what you and I were saying, the Focus and the LS are two different cars for different consumer sgements, claiming one is far superior than the other based solely on price is faulty.

In your logic, a one-bedroom studio is vastly superior to a 3000 sqft, 2-story house with front and back yard. Who needs a swimming pool and mowing them lawn right?

 

[Pocatello]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing

Originally posted by: andylawcc

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
And the LS fails at life, my Focus is better.

hahahahahahahah..... you really know a lot about cars do you.

Funny thing, Lexus won't let you configure an LS without an options package for an additional $7000 above MSRP.

For $54000 more, the Lexus gets you:
Twice the cylinders
A sequential gearbox
Some run of the mill psuedo-luxury suspension (this is WITHOUT the expensive air-suspension option)
Move the drive wheels to the back
Some fancy-ass computer in between the steering wheel and the actual steering
Significantly worse gas mileage
Some fancy interior trim bits
Leather (Cloth is INFINITELY superior)
An extra CD changer slot
Bluetooth (why?)
A power trunk closer (wow, you're ****** lazy if you need that)
A universal garage door opener
Some lights underneath the rocker panel that lights up the ground when you open the door
A COMPASS
A tire pressure monitoring system
An engine immobilizer
LED lights
SatNav
A backup camera
Heated seats (you don't need this with cloth seats)
Alloy wheels 1 inch bigger
Marginal extra rear legroom
ONE VERY SHINY LEXUS BADGE.

If you're going to sell me a $70,000 car, you need a lot more than THAT to make it worth the extra $60k over a $10,000 used economy car - especially since I could add damn near all of those things to the Focus for less than $5000.

A $70,000 car that gets me relatively little compared to a better looking $10,000 car is VERY low on my spending priorities list. If I'm going to be spending $70k on a car, it had damn well better be more than some Japanese economy car they put on the photocopier and enlarged it to 120%, and then stole some bits and pieces out of Germany's reject bin and installed a hashed up 1st gen V8 engine. For just pocket change more than an LS, you can have a damned BMW M5 - and the BMW is a far better driver's car.

It all depends on what you like to spend your money on. Some people think they must have expensive cars whether they can afford them or not. While some people think cars are just transportation tools and don't need their cars to be too fancy.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing

Originally posted by: andylawcc

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
And the LS fails at life, my Focus is better.

hahahahahahahah..... you really know a lot about cars do you.

Funny thing, Lexus won't let you configure an LS without an options package for an additional $7000 above MSRP.

For $54000 more, the Lexus gets you:
Twice the cylinders
A sequential gearbox
Some run of the mill psuedo-luxury suspension (this is WITHOUT the expensive air-suspension option)
Move the drive wheels to the back
Some fancy-ass computer in between the steering wheel and the actual steering
Significantly worse gas mileage
Some fancy interior trim bits
Leather (Cloth is INFINITELY superior)
An extra CD changer slot
Bluetooth (why?)
A power trunk closer (wow, you're ****** lazy if you need that)
A universal garage door opener
Some lights underneath the rocker panel that lights up the ground when you open the door
A COMPASS
A tire pressure monitoring system
An engine immobilizer
LED lights
SatNav
A backup camera
Heated seats (you don't need this with cloth seats)
Alloy wheels 1 inch bigger
Marginal extra rear legroom
ONE VERY SHINY LEXUS BADGE.

If you're going to sell me a $70,000 car, you need a lot more than THAT to make it worth the extra $60k over a $10,000 used economy car - especially since I could add damn near all of those things to the Focus for less than $5000.

A $70,000 car that gets me relatively little compared to a better looking $10,000 car is VERY low on my spending priorities list. If I'm going to be spending $70k on a car, it had damn well better be more than some Japanese economy car they put on the photocopier and enlarged it to 120%, and then stole some bits and pieces out of Germany's reject bin and installed a hashed up 1st gen V8 engine. For just pocket change more than an LS, you can have a damned BMW M5 - and the BMW is a far better driver's car.

WTF are you babbling about?

What does the M5 have to do with the LS? The LS competes with the 7-Series and S-Class. And when has BMW ever been "generous" with standard features. It's common in the luxury space to include ridiculously priced option packages. If you can afford to buy a $55k plus car, you can afford to pay ridiculous ammounts of money for option packages.

And who gives a crap what your spending priorities are? Lexus doesn't give a sh!t about your $10,000 budget...neither does BMW, neither does Mercedes, neither does Audi. Don't bitch b/c the vehicle isn't targeted at you.

As for the comment about leather...uh, what? I had leather in my Camry and I have BLACK leather in my BLACK Mazda3s. Never once have I my legs sweated and I wear shorts everyday during the summer. You know, we do have this thing called A/C.

Bitching about a $55k Lexus is like bitching at someone buying a Rolex over a Timex or someone who eats at McDonalds vs some fancy $20 a burger place.

And if you're going to list the LS 460's standard features, how about listing them all next time:

Exterior

Xenon High-Intensity Discharge (HID) integrated headlamps (low beam)
Poly-ellipsoid headlamp system with crystal lens
Integrated fog lamps
Thin profile-integrated LED high-mount stop lamp; LED brake, tail and license plate lights
Heated electrochromic outside rearview mirrors with puddle lamps (mounted on the underside of mirror housing), and power folding function
Body hand-sanded twice during the application of alternating layers of paint and coatings
Acoustic glass windshield
Thinsulate insulation for more effective sound absorption
Narrow and precise body panel gaps
Headlamp washers (standard on LS 460 L)
Power door closers (standard on LS 460 L)
One-touch open/close power trunk lid with jam protection (standard on LS 460 L)

Interior

Grain-matched wood trim for center console, dash and door panels
Wood and leather-trimmed steering wheel
Interior leather/wood trim colors: Cashmere/Medium Brown Walnut, Alabaster/Dark Brown Ash Burl, Light Grey/Dark Gray Birds-eye Maple, Black/Medium Brown Walnut
16-way power driver seat and 12-way power front seats
Three-position memory system for driver seat
Power seatbelt shoulder height adjusters for front passengers
Climate-controlled front seats and heated rear seats (standard on LS 460 L)
Instrumentation and Controls
SmartAccess with push-button start/stop
Electroluminescent (Optitron®) gauges
Electrochromic inside mirror
Cruise control
Homelink® programmable garage door opener
Power tilt/telescoping steering wheel with audio, brake hold function and multi-information display controls
New TFT (Thin Film Transistor) color multi-information display indicates: driving range of remaining fuel in tank, average fuel consumption, average fuel consumption since refueling, current fuel consumption, average speed since vehicle started, outside temperature, elapsed time, Dynamic Radar Cruise Control settings (if equipped) and maintenance/diagnostic messages.
Power tilt-and-slide moonroof with one-touch closure
Dual-zone front climate control with smog sensor and automatic recirculation control
LED interior lighting with spot-lamp illumination in front and rear
Body heat sensor that helps maintain desired temperature for all occupants
Charcoal-activated clean air dust and pollen filter
First aid kit
Heated steering wheel (standard on LS 460 L)
Power rear sunshade (standard on LS 460 L)
Individual vanity mirrors in rear seat area
30 GB Hard Disc Drive (HDD) Navigation System with voice activation, Bluetooth® (including steering wheel controls), rear back-up camera (standard on LS 460 L)

Audio

XM Satellite Radio with real-time traffic displays and dynamic rerouting (standard on LS 460 L)
Lexus Premium Audio
Six-disc in-dash CD changer
AM/FM Tuner
Digital Sound Processor (DSP)
Automatic Sound Levelizer (ASL)
Electronic crossover network
10 speakers including subwoofer
MP3/iPod® audio input plug
Plays MP3/WMA-formatted audio discs

Safety

Dual stage driver and front passenger airbags
Front passenger twin-chamber airbag
Curtain shield airbags
Side airbags for driver and front passenger
Knee airbags for driver and front passenger
Force limiters and seatbelt pretensioners
3-point seatbelts and headrests for all three rear seating positions
Adaptive Front lighting System (AFS)
Direct-type Tire Pressure Monitoring System
Optional Advanced Parking Guidance System with Intuitive Park Assist (LS 460 requires Navigation system)
Front-passenger occupant classification system

Mechanical

8-speed automatic transmission with sequential shift
Dual Variable Valve Timing with intelligence (VVT-iE) with electrically
Direct Ignition System (DIS)
Acoustic Control Induction System (ACIS)
Aluminum block and cylinder heads with magnesium cylinder
Electronic Power Steering (EPS)
Electronic Parking Brake and brake hold function
Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) system
Hollow tube camshafts to reduce weight and increase efficiency
Liquid-filled engine mounts to reduce noise and vibration
Increased use of aluminum in suspension components

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Leather (Cloth is INFINITELY superior)

Wrong. Leather wears better (wooo, 20 minutes to condition once a year, that's so inconvenient :roll: ) and is infinitely easier to clean. Not only that, but real leather is not cold in the winter like Vinyl is, nor is is unbearable in the summer (my daily has a black leather interior and the seats never have heat problems in the summer).

ZV

And 5 minutes with a vacuum cleaner every 3 months or so is inconvenient?

And it's not the hot/cold thing that's the issue - it's how any exposed, sweaty skin sticks to it. It's nasty.

Vacuuming cloth doesn't make it last any longer (and what the heck are you doing/eating that is depositing enough crud in the seats that they need vacuuming every 3 months, my cars floor doesn't need vacuuming that often).

I've never stuck to leather, maybe it's just me.

ZV

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
For just pocket change more than an LS, you can have a damned BMW M5 - and the BMW is a far better driver's car.

Lexus LS price (new and used)

BMW M5 price (new and used)

pls explain how can you buy an M5 with an LS plus pocket change? I guess 10-20k means nothing to you right?

 

[andylawcc]

NFS4: i think you should change the Title to

"Forecast: ATOT to Dominate Ignant Cheapskate"

 

[Stunt]

CVT is better...

 

[Squisher]

I've never even driven a four speed auto.

I wonder about the pitfalls of increasing complexity with ever decreasing returns.

When it comes to efficiencies, I'd sure like to see more cylinder cut-off technologies applied to 6 and 4 cylinder cars. Why even use all 4 cylinders to keep a 2500 lb. car going at 55 mph?

 

[AgentJean]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Aren't these 6 speed automatic transmissions going to add about $1,500 to the total price of the car over the price of a four speed? You're going to need to put a LOT of miles on your car for that 4% mileage improvement to pay for itself. Not to mention that these newer transmissions will be more expensive to replace when they break, and they probably will break down more often thanks to all of the extra parts.

Wow, thow in another 1500 bucks and you have the additional cost of a hybird that gets TWICE(2 times) the gas mileage.

Yeah, American car companies are just plain STUPID.
They need to learn from Toyota.

I'll never buy an American(Ford or GM) car.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing

Originally posted by: andylawcc

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
And the LS fails at life, my Focus is better.

hahahahahahahah..... you really know a lot about cars do you.

Funny thing, Lexus won't let you configure an LS without an options package for an additional $7000 above MSRP.

For $54000 more, the Lexus gets you:
Twice the cylinders
A sequential gearbox
Some run of the mill psuedo-luxury suspension (this is WITHOUT the expensive air-suspension option)
Move the drive wheels to the back
Some fancy-ass computer in between the steering wheel and the actual steering
Significantly worse gas mileage
Some fancy interior trim bits
Leather (Cloth is INFINITELY superior)
An extra CD changer slot
Bluetooth (why?)
A power trunk closer (wow, you're ****** lazy if you need that)
A universal garage door opener
Some lights underneath the rocker panel that lights up the ground when you open the door
A COMPASS
A tire pressure monitoring system
An engine immobilizer
LED lights
SatNav
A backup camera
Heated seats (you don't need this with cloth seats)
Alloy wheels 1 inch bigger
Marginal extra rear legroom
ONE VERY SHINY LEXUS BADGE.

If you're going to sell me a $70,000 car, you need a lot more than THAT to make it worth the extra $60k over a $10,000 used economy car - especially since I could add damn near all of those things to the Focus for less than $5000.

A $70,000 car that gets me relatively little compared to a better looking $10,000 car is VERY low on my spending priorities list. If I'm going to be spending $70k on a car, it had damn well better be more than some Japanese economy car they put on the photocopier and enlarged it to 120%, and then stole some bits and pieces out of Germany's reject bin and installed a hashed up 1st gen V8 engine. For just pocket change more than an LS, you can have a damned BMW M5 - and the BMW is a far better driver's car.

Cloth is better than leather? Hah!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Good start but what is sad is this should've at least been standard since the Oil embargo of 1973.

Uhh... maybe because the technology didn't exist then? :roll:
4 speed automatics didn't exist until the '80s. 5 speeds were invented in the '90s, and 6 speeds just a few years ago.

 

[yhelothar]

I still remember driving my company's 1990 Mazda MPV. That thing had 3 gears. First gear had to rev up near redline at 5000RPM. Not to mention it couldn't climb uphill even with its V6 engine.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Good start but what is sad is this should've at least been standard since the Oil embargo of 1973.

Uhh... maybe because the technology didn't exist then? :roll:
4 speed automatics didn't exist until the '80s. 5 speeds were invented in the '90s, and 6 speeds just a few years ago.

Even though the technology didn't exist...Honda hasn't been sitting on its hands; lots of innovation has occured since 1973.

In 1973 the Honda Civic debuted with 40mpg fuel economy on the highway out of a 53hp engine. Today the 2007 civic has a 50mpg fuel economy on the highway and has a 140hp engine.

Fuel economy has always been a focus Dave; just have to wait for the technology.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Aren't these 6 speed automatic transmissions going to add about $1,500 to the total price of the car over the price of a four speed? You're going to need to put a LOT of miles on your car for that 4% mileage improvement to pay for itself. Not to mention that these newer transmissions will be more expensive to replace when they break, and they probably will break down more often thanks to all of the extra parts.

The new V6 camry already has a 6 spd auto, and the new model costs the same, sometimes less than the old, depending on trim.

Also toyo's has already said the new tranny weighs less and uses less parts than the old 5 speed.

 

[senseamp]

Seriously, why spend all the money on a Lexus LS if you can just buy a Hyundai and put "I am old" and "I can't afford the Mercedes" stickers on it?

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Seriously, why spend all the money on a Lexus LS if you can just buy a Hyundai and put "I am old" and "I can't afford the Mercedes" stickers on it?

335i > G35 biotch

 

[BurnItDwn]

OMG, I wanted to reply to this earlier, but due to the sun, I was stuck to the leather in my car. Now that it's set, and it's cooled off outside, I managed to get unstuck from the leather.


I hate cars that don't have a compass.

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
OMG, I wanted to reply to this earlier, but due to the sun, I was stuck to the leather in my car. Now that it's set, and it's cooled off outside, I managed to get unstuck from the leather.

I hate cars that don't have a compass.

i think the coward left the forum already, no need to waste more time on him.

 

[prontospyder]

Originally posted by: andylawcc

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: andylawcc
urrr.. isn't CVT far more efficient?

They haven't yet developed a really good CVT.

well, should they spend more resource into developing CVT than cramping more gears into traditional transmission?

If car makers never put CVT into mainstream, they will never make better ones.

Looks like Nissan is trying to put CVT in 40-50% of their cars/trucks sold in the US and Japan by 2007:
Link

 

[sdifox]

Talking of CVT, anyone drive one of the Audi A4 with CVT? My concern with another gear is how responsive that AT can be with so may different gears to grease, so to speak.

 

[PAB]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Leather (Cloth is INFINITELY superior)

Wrong. Leather wears better (wooo, 20 minutes to condition once a year, that's so inconvenient :roll: ) and is infinitely easier to clean. Not only that, but real leather is not cold in the winter like Vinyl is, nor is is unbearable in the summer (my daily has a black leather interior and the seats never have heat problems in the summer).

ZV

However true this may be, I'd like to affirm that in no way does any Detroit automarker use "real" leather.

Almost every car I see after 3 years with GM/Ford/DC "leather" looks like a vinyl dash off a 79 Trans Am. It might be easier to clean, but it's still going to disintigrate.