Ford, BMW, Toyota Took Secret Government Money

[bamacre]

Your answer is to leave fraud proceeds to the fraudsters.

Try again.

 

[nonlnear]

99.99% of the population does not have access to said trading terminals. Hell, 99.99% of the population does not have any clue what "Commercial Paper" is, and likely think it's sold at your local OfficeMax. On top of this, the Fed's activities in these markets was lightly reported (if at all) by the media. That's why these transactions were "secret" (from most people's point of view), even though they were done in the open.

That makes them about as secret as the Poincaré conjecture.

 

[lothar]

They have a $100 trillion note in Zimbabwe now?...Wow.

 

[halik]

http://jalopnik.com/5704575/



Never really saw this mentioned here but i thought it was interesting anyways, so much for Chrysler and GM being the only automakers taking tax payer money.

Ummm no,
Government bought their commercial paper, not quite the same as "taking government money." Creditworthy companies issue CP all the time for cashflow management' the stuff matures in 270 days or less and then the company pays back face. It's a non-issue when the credit markets are working.

Taxpayer *made money* on the transaction, deficit reduction at work.

 

[Pulsar]

except when they paid back those dollars the dollar was worth a lot less each.

This is the shell game you are clueless on. What are you defending, do you even know?

Worth a lot less where, exactly? Last I checked, dollar inflation in the US has been nearly zero, with many concerned of deflation. My gallon of milk still costs about the same, and so does most everything else.

Legendkiller got it right. As usual, we've got a bunch of people who are just begging for a sensationalized story. We've got a online publication begging to give it to them by comparing a company given loans to a company who declared bankruptcy and was forgiven all debt.

And we've got people like you who lap it all up then do the whole outrage routine.

The OP is fail, most of the people posting in this thread is fail, and you are total fail. These were loans. That were paid back 100% with nearly zero inflation.

Tell you what. Go get a loan for a used car from a credit union at 3% or 4%, then we'll all whine that they bailed you out. Let us know how all that free money feels.

 

[ElFenix]

holy crap a ton of people in here have no idea what commercial paper is

 

[alkemyst]

Worth a lot less where, exactly? Last I checked, dollar inflation in the US has been nearly zero, with many concerned of deflation. My gallon of milk still costs about the same, and so does most everything else.

Legendkiller got it right. As usual, we've got a bunch of people who are just begging for a sensationalized story. We've got a online publication begging to give it to them by comparing a company given loans to a company who declared bankruptcy and was forgiven all debt.

And we've got people like you who lap it all up then do the whole outrage routine.

The OP is fail, most of the people posting in this thread is fail, and you are total fail. These were loans. That were paid back 100% with nearly zero inflation.

Tell you what. Go get a loan for a used car from a credit union at 3% or 4%, then we'll all whine that they bailed you out. Let us know how all that free money feels.

Well good luck trying to trade those dollars outside that little snow globe.

Dollar is a wreck everywhere outside the US.

 

[Munky]

These weren't really secret transactions. Anyone with access to a Bloomberg, BondDesk or Tradeweb could see that the Federal Reserve was active in the commercial paper market, hell they announced the program to help GE and Ford as the examples.

They weren't? The why did the Fed and bankers fight tooth and nail to keep that info from the public?

 

[halik]

They weren't? The why did the Fed and bankers fight tooth and nail to keep that info from the public?

They didn't want to make the emergency discount window and TALF/TAwhateverelse public.

Commerical Paper market is a different story.

 

[The-Noid]

They didn't want to make the emergency discount window and TALF/TAwhateverelse public.

Commerical Paper market is a different story.

CP market you could just look at buyers coming in. They were trying to hide discount window and PDCF.

 

[alkemyst]

the part many are missing as well is none of the 'payback' monies were really from creating production/profit.

Another shell game with borrowed/subsidized funds.

 

[LegendKiller]

the part many are missing as well is none of the 'payback' monies were really from creating production/profit.

Another shell game with borrowed/subsidized funds.

Much of it was repaid through current cash. If you disagree, provide proof.

 

[LegendKiller]

Well good luck trying to trade those dollars outside that little snow globe.

Dollar is a wreck everywhere outside the US.

Really?..............


Really?....


Are you that fucking stupid?

 

[alkemyst]

Much of it was repaid through current cash. If you disagree, provide proof.

It seems it's not going to matter what anyone provides.

Do you realize only part of the money was considered "the loan" and the other part not counted?

There is really nothing more to say though all these facts have been hashed in things as easy to get as the Wall Street Journal and CNN money.

 

[LegendKiller]

It seems it's not going to matter what anyone provides.

Do you realize only part of the money was considered "the loan" and the other part not counted?

There is really nothing more to say though all these facts have been hashed in things as easy to get as the Wall Street Journal and CNN money.

What the fuck are you talking about? The "loan" was repaid in full. What wasn't counted? If you have proof it wasn't, provide it. Otherwise, stop spreading FUDD.

 

[alkemyst]

In GM's case, please describe the loan amount, the bailout total amount and the amount repaid.

I think you are going to be way off on this one.

 

[Pulsar]

In GM's case, please describe the loan amount, the bailout total amount and the amount repaid.

I think you are going to be way off on this one.

You are trying to mix a purely financial transaction in commercial paper and the GM bailout / bankruptcy. The commerical paper was a loan and was paid back. The GM bailout / bankruptcy is a completely different matter entirely.

In addition, I suggest you go onto google and look at the Dollar vs. Other currencies. Many of them have not changes, and a couple have dropped 20% over the last 5 years. Frankly, though, that's a pretty normal swing. Go look at the way the Japanese Yen has moved around over the last 40 years vs. the dollar. Big companies like these have entire groups that control hedge funds to minimize monetary fluctuations.

Keep it up. This is entertaining.

PS:
corporate giants such as General Electric, Harley Davidson and McDonald's, took advantage of the Fed's help.
According to the Fed, the commercial paper loans have been paid in full

You're the one making assinine claims alkemyst. This is DIRECLTY from the article. It was paid back.

 

[LegendKiller]

In GM's case, please describe the loan amount, the bailout total amount and the amount repaid.

I think you are going to be way off on this one.

In GM's case, please describe the CP amount, the total CP amount, and the amount repaid.

Because this thread was about CP, not about your bailout ranting.

And, as the poster above said, please back up your dollar claim.

You are making yourself look more and more like a moron, keep it up.

 

[Jhhnn]

It seems it's not going to matter what anyone provides.

To you, obviously not. You believe what you believe because it's what you want to believe, and there ain't nobody changin' your mind, no sirree...

Leave the formulation of simulated rationality on the Right to those who know what they're doing, OK?

 

[halik]

CP market you could just look at buyers coming in. They were trying to hide discount window and PDCF.

What's it under on bloomberg? CP isn't my world

 

[LegendKiller]

What's it under on bloomberg? CP isn't my world

index rates on bbg aren't always the most reliable. Our CP is placed through a dealer network and our rates do not compare well to any indexes.

I forgot the ticker for it but it isn't that difficult to find.

 

[The-Noid]

Depends what your entitlements are, I will pm you if you want

As lk said though there are quite a few screens to view 144a and cp transaction volumes/rates.

 

[alkemyst]

You are trying to mix a purely financial transaction in commercial paper and the GM bailout / bankruptcy. The commerical paper was a loan and was paid back. The GM bailout / bankruptcy is a completely different matter entirely.

In addition, I suggest you go onto google and look at the Dollar vs. Other currencies. Many of them have not changes, and a couple have dropped 20% over the last 5 years. Frankly, though, that's a pretty normal swing. Go look at the way the Japanese Yen has moved around over the last 40 years vs. the dollar. Big companies like these have entire groups that control hedge funds to minimize monetary fluctuations.

Keep it up. This is entertaining.

PS:
corporate giants such as General Electric, Harley Davidson and McDonald's, took advantage of the Fed's help.
According to the Fed, the commercial paper loans have been paid in full

You're the one making assinine claims alkemyst. This is DIRECLTY from the article. It was paid back.

Right, this is my point though. There were many loans paid back. Also much of this was paying one loan off with another, also what isn't discussed is the loans and money gathered from other countries. Just at you are trying to correct me in it's GMAC, it's also Ford Credit mentioned in that article.

It's really looking at the parent companies. Anyway, all this cheap money being given to all the big companies is part of the problem. That's what you aren't getting.

As far as the Yen goes I deal in it everyday. It's dismal right now. Trading at almost half of what it was 10 years ago. Just recently it hit as low as 80. It's very tied to the state of the US.

 

[halik]

Depends what your entitlements are, I will pm you if you want

As lk said though there are quite a few screens to view 144a and cp transaction volumes/rates.

ygpm

 

[Pulsar]

Right, this is my point though. There were many loans paid back. Also much of this was paying one loan off with another, also what isn't discussed is the loans and money gathered from other countries. Just at you are trying to correct me in it's GMAC, it's also Ford Credit mentioned in that article.

It's really looking at the parent companies. Anyway, all this cheap money being given to all the big companies is part of the problem. That's what you aren't getting.

As far as the Yen goes I deal in it everyday. It's dismal right now. Trading at almost half of what it was 10 years ago. Just recently it hit as low as 80. It's very tied to the state of the US.

Ok, so we're changing topics now? You're admitting that it was paid back in full, and the issuer of the commerical paper, the government, was paid back as the article said from the start?

I never said it wasn't Ford. Nor did I say it wasn't Toyota, BMW, etc. You're really grabbing at straws now. Commerical paper is used nearly every day. Jalopnik is pulling your outrage strings, and very very effectively it seems. It's too bad, really. When I used to read them a couple years ago I don't remember their reporting as being this ridiculous. Perhaps I simply wasn't paying close enough attention.

So now we're going to move on to companies that pay off one loan with another? The same way many, many, many people use one lower-interest loan to pay off a higher interest rate loan, because that's smart fiscal policy?

Wait, no. You say "all of this cheap money is given to big companies". What cheap money, specifically? Just because you obviously had never heard about commercial paper before this doesn't mean it hasn't been going on for a long, long time. In fact, go take a mortgage out. You'll be shocked at how quickly it's sold so that the lender can free up cash to make another loan to someone else. Is there any shock that car loans are treated the same way?

So, can please tell (now that we've established your earlier ranting was full of crap) what your real issue is?