[Forbes] AMD Is Wrong About 'The Witcher 3' And Nvidia's HairWorks

[3DVagabond]

Cross platform, as in xbox and pc

When mantle was announced there was no indicaton of it ever wanting to be cross vendor. When they realised it didn't go well with their good vs evil marketing they said they'd open it up "when it's done", whenever that may be.

Or am I being too cynical?

I really hate the cheesy good vs evil amd marketing, they're companies, not people. Nvidia did a good job building hype with the 970 and 980, sold a lot. But now they're neglecting kepler I think amd has a real opportunity.

With dx12 nvidia's cpu overhead advantage will disappear, downsampling was an nvidia advantage for years but now amd also does it. I think they're pretty much approaching feature parity.

Turning on their own. Pretty evil, no?

 

[Flapdrol1337]

You are wrong.

Am I? The mantle slides at the 290x launch event specifically mention GCN. The "might be open" thing started a month later, after the gsync launch event.

 

[maddie]

Cross platform, as in xbox and pc

When mantle was announced there was no indicaton of it ever wanting to be cross vendor. When they realised it didn't go well with their good vs evil marketing they said they'd open it up "when it's done", whenever that may be.

Or am I being too cynical?

I really hate the cheesy good vs evil amd marketing, they're companies, not people. Nvidia did a good job building hype with the 970 and 980, sold a lot. But now they're neglecting kepler I think amd has a real opportunity.

With dx12 nvidia's cpu overhead advantage will disappear, downsampling was an nvidia advantage for years but now amd also does it. I think they're pretty much approaching feature parity.

Very modern thinking to that. AFAIK, a company without people would pretty much do nothing.

A company's culture is a reflection of the people who run it. To claim otherwise is being either naive or ignorant about reality.

 

[digitaldurandal]

Very modern thinking to that. AFAIK, a company without people would pretty much do nothing.

A company's culture is a reflection of the people who run it. To claim otherwise is being either naive or ignorant about reality.

See also: FIFA

 

[digitaldurandal]

Project Cars has no Gameworks and PhysX is open to everyone. Yet they went into the public and blamed Gameworks for their performance.

So AMD can run PhysX via GPU?

Sweet! I never knew.

 

[maddie]

See also: FIFA

Yes and ALL governments.

I never posted my location but I have met one of those FIFA execs in the legal case. A truly exploitative person. No ethics. He ran the national football as a private fiefdom.

 

[sontin]

So AMD can run PhysX via GPU?

Sweet! I never knew.

What a luck that Project Cars doesnt use GPU-PhysX. D:

 

[Jaydip]

Jeez, it goes right thru you.
1. You said Mantle was not intended to be cross platform. That was a lie.
2. Images of Hairworks at x16 and at x64(the default) are hard to tell apart. You can tell apart that detail(or lack of) from 30+ images a second with a moving camera? Good for you!

(I wont be repeating myself anymore unless you actually have some proof, the cycle has to end now. Or maybe your english is not good?)



1) True. Ignoring that NV has had horrible support for OpenCL since the very beginning.
2) No need. We have OpenCL.

1.It was not a lie lol, you should I don't know maybe check some documentation for starters?
2.If you can't tell the difference sorry to break it for ya, PC gaming is not for you time to move on.
lol English, instead of cheer-leading AMD read some documents for starters.
3.NV doesn't need opencl
4.No we do.


Infraction issued for personal attack.

-Rvenger

 

[AnandThenMan]

C'mon now, AMD basically offered, there would be no DirectX 12 -- I Still can't believe that was actually offered.

Without Mantle this would have very likely been the case. At best we'd have DX12 at some point but it would be with very minor tweaks.

 

[maddie]

1.It was not a lie lol, you should I don't know maybe check some documentation for starters?
2.If you can't tell the difference sorry to break it for ya, PC gaming is not for you time to move on.
lol English, instead of cheer-leading AMD read some documents for starters.
3.NV doesn't need opencl
4.No we do.

Isn't that a rather bold assumption when many in the industry are praising openCl as the future.

 

[MisterLilBig]

C'mon now, AMD basically offered, there would be no DirectX 12 -- I Still can't believe that was actually offered.

If you read my comment and your own posted link, he mentioned 'to the best of his knowledge and that if it's otherwise that he should be corrected'(something like that, I had already quoted him on my earlier response to you). If that is not pushing others(MS) to leak information, I don't know what is.

Am I? The mantle slides at the 290x launch event specifically mention GCN. The "might be open" thing started a month later, after the gsync launch event.

The first time ever that Mantle was presented at "AMD GPU 14 Product Showcase", Johan from DICE, on his slides it says "Will be cross platform, very important for us". (At 2:27:12 on the video at Youtube)

1.It was not a lie lol, you should I don't know maybe check some documentation for starters?
2.If you can't tell the difference sorry to break it for ya, PC gaming is not for you time to move on.
lol English, instead of cheer-leading AMD read some documents for starters.
3.NV doesn't need opencl
4.No we do.

1. Says "cross platform" on the slide of the first time it was shown. Its INTENTION was cross platform. Unlike what you said.
2. Hey, I applaud your amazing visual skills. That would totally break world records.
3. I didn't say it did, duh! It pushed CUDA over an industry standard highly supported by every other company in the industry. And that is fine, sadly they had to make OpenCL look bad on their GPU's to make it happen.
4. Erm, what? I don't get it. Of course we don't need CUDA, we have OpenCL.

 

[Flapdrol1337]

Cross platform means xbox and pc.

 

[Jaydip]

1. Says "cross platform" on the slide of the first time it was shown. Its INTENTION was cross platform. Unlike what you said.
2. Hey, I applaud your amazing visual skills. That would totally break world records.
3. I didn't say it did, duh! It pushed CUDA over an industry standard highly supported by every other company in the industry. And that is fine, sadly they had to make OpenCL look bad on their GPU's to make it happen.
4. Erm, what? I don't get it. Of course we don't need CUDA, we have OpenCL.

1.Mantle was closed source from the beginning and in it's no shape or form mantle ran on NV period.
2.Take a poll and you will be surprised.
3.They why AMD created mantle? we had already an industry standard called DX.
4.Why did we need mantle?

 

[Spanners]

"If you can't tell the difference sorry to break it for ya, PC gaming is not for you time to move on."

He said "hard to tell apart" not can't tell the difference. Maybe reading is not for you...

"Mantle was closed source from the beginning and in it's no shape or form mantle ran on NV period."

He said "intention" (even in caps so you could see it clearly) Mantle never got out of beta and running on "NV" isn't the limit to cross-platform.

"They why AMD created mantle? we had already an industry standard called DX. Why did we need mantle?

I'm sure you know the answer to this already but Google will help you over the line if you genuinely don't.

 

[MisterLilBig]

Cross platform means xbox and pc.

Do point out where this was said. Otherwise, it's just your own personal definition.

1.Mantle was closed source from the beginning and in it's no shape or form mantle ran on NV period.
2.Take a poll and you will be surprised.
3.They why AMD created mantle? we had already an industry standard called DX.
4.Why did we need mantle?

1. "Spanners" already answered. And I never said that it ran on NV. You really have a problem reading.

2. And be surprised that the majority of the marketshare would "agree"? You know, that would be a great idea tho and time consuming. It would need a few videos of a few seconds, or a minute, with the only difference being varying degrees of tessellation. But, I wont be doing such a thing. Look at the static images, take into account the time it takes to point out the differences, then multiply the difficulty by 3000% to emulate 1 second, at 30 frames.(Purely an estimated guess.) You really are superb if you can do that. Super Ultra Human.

3. Actually, we have OpenGL. Since DX is Windows only, tho obviously the most used in PC gaming. Why did AMD create Mantle? Well, to make developing games for PC similar to developing games in the consoles. And all the benefits that it brings. (For someone who told me to read some "documentation" you sure don't know much about the subject.)

4. Lowers cost and increases performance and compatibility and everything. You do realize that, you are asking the same thing as "Why do we need Vulkan?", right?
The plainest answer I can give to both is -> We always wanted it, no one dared to try it. No one knew when or how to start it. No one knew if it was worth the cost to do it on PC.

 

[Jaydip]

He said "hard to tell apart" not can't tell the difference. Maybe reading is not for you...


He said "intention" (even in caps so you could see it clearly) Mantle never got out of beta and running on "NV" isn't the limit to cross-platform.


I'm sure you know the answer to this already but Google will help you over the line if you genuinely don't.

1.Yup compressions is definitely not for you then.
2.So what? answer this did it run on NV yes or no?
3.Yup please Google it, AMD created mantle because their crappy APUs were getting slaughtered, even with mantle they cant beat NV in DX, funny right? industry didn't need mantle AMD did.

 

[Flapdrol1337]

Do point out where this was said. Otherwise, it's just your own personal definition.

PC is a platform, xbox one is a platform, ps4 is a platform. Amd/nvidia/intel would be cross vendor.

Cross platform being amd/nvidia/intel is your interpretation.

 

[Jaydip]

Isn't that a rather bold assumption when many in the industry are praising openCl as the future.

NV does support Opencl but they push CUDA as their main GPGPU platform.

 

[Jaydip]

Do point out where this was said. Otherwise, it's just your own personal definition.



1. "Spanners" already answered. And I never said that it ran on NV. You really have a problem reading.

2. And be surprised that the majority of the marketshare would "agree"? You know, that would be a great idea tho and time consuming. It would need a few videos of a few seconds, or a minute, with the only difference being varying degrees of tessellation. But, I wont be doing such a thing. Look at the static images, take into account the time it takes to point out the differences, then multiply the difficulty by 3000% to emulate 1 second, at 30 frames.(Purely an estimated guess.) You really are superb if you can do that. Super Ultra Human.

3. Actually, we have OpenGL. Since DX is Windows only, tho obviously the most used in PC gaming. Why did AMD create Mantle? Well, to make developing games for PC similar to developing games in the consoles. And all the benefits that it brings. (For someone who told me to read some "documentation" you sure don't know much about the subject.)

4. Lowers cost and increases performance and compatibility and everything. You do realize that, you are asking the same thing as "Why do we need Vulkan?", right?
The plainest answer I can give to both is -> We always wanted it, no one dared to try it. No one knew when or how to start it. No one knew if it was worth the cost to do it on PC.

1.I don't, you have problems understanding.
2.You don't need super human to tell them apart, if visual fidelity was so casual we would still be rocking 2008 graphics.
3.So let me get this straight, you know what mantle is right, it does exactly what DX does, so again why do we need mantle?(so what happens to mantle when DX 12 launches?) benefits lol yup GW brings them to PC gaming too.We never needed mantle.
4.So how many OGL games you have played or rather how many OGL games are in development? OGL has been irrelevant for a long time now and vulcan won't change anything.

 

[MisterLilBig]

1.Yup compressions is definitely not for you then. 2.So what? answer this did it run on NV yes or no? 3.Yup please Google it, AMD created mantle because their crappy APUs were getting slaughtered, even with mantle they cant beat NV in DX, funny right? industry didn't need mantle AMD did.

3. And yet the 290X runs DX12 better than a Titan X. GCN is such a powerful architecture, it's compute power is still higher than the GTX 980 Ti.

PC is a platform, xbox one is a platform, ps4 is a platform. Amd/nvidia/intel would be cross vendor.

Cross platform being amd/nvidia/intel is your interpretation.

Cross platform is many things. You are the one specifying what it means. So, show it with an official AMD announcement.


EDIT:

1.I don't, you have problems understanding.
2.You don't need super human to tell them apart, if visual fidelity was so casual we would still be rocking 2008 graphics.
3.So let me get this straight, you know what mantle is right, it does exactly what DX does, so again why do we need mantle?(so what happens to mantle when DX 12 launches?) benefits lol yup GW brings them to PC gaming too.We never needed mantle.
4.So how many OGL games you have played or rather how many OGL games are in development? OGL has been irrelevant for a long time now and vulcan won't change anything.

1. You are the one who kept pointing out the opposite of what I said.
2. It's 3000% harder at 30 FPS. There's a blind test of people playing X1 vs PS4 vs PC on youtube, by game reviewers, over half of them failed.
3. Dude. You know Mantle is "dead", right? You are so outdated. Vulkan is the evolution of Mantle.
4. Erm...considering that Steam and Android and iOS,etc...Are a thing! OGL has been in use far more than DX in the past few years, mainly, the OGLES version, which is being overcome by Vulkan also. Vulkan will be more than OpenGL ever was.

 

[Jaydip]

So which dx 12 game you are running now? That graph was about draw calls not fps. If the theoretical numbers were everything AMD would have ruled the pro sector, their software support is still not there yet

 

[Jaydip]

Regarding the OGL dream, I have heard that before too !!! Does it have potential, it sure does but so far the battle is tilted in favour of dx way too much,

 

[MisterLilBig]

So which dx 12 game you are running now? That graph was about draw calls not fps. If the theoretical numbers were everything AMD would have ruled the pro sector, their software support is still not there yet

Draw call performance matters, the driver will be smaller and the performance of the application is greatly put upon the developer. Meaning, actual performance will be near "theoretical" performance. Obviously, between NV and AMD, this benefits AMD most, not only on the hardware side but on the software side. Since drivers will matter less and they are much simpler to implement than the older ones.

Regarding the OGL dream, I have heard that before too !!! Does it have potential, it sure does but so far the battle is tilted in favour of dx way too much,

I am not on anyones "boat" here. But the potential is there. It is better than OpenGL in every way. No more Embedded version. One API, everywhere. Not sure about the Web version yet tho.

 

[Jaydip]

Draw call performance matters, the driver will be smaller and the performance of the application is greatly put upon the developer. Meaning, actual performance will be near "theoretical" performance. Obviously, between NV and AMD, this benefits AMD most, not only on the hardware side but on the software side. Since drivers will matter less and they are much simpler to implement than the older ones.



I am not on anyones "boat" here. But the potential is there. It is better than OpenGL in every way. No more Embedded version. One API, everywhere. Not sure about the Web version yet tho.

We know nothing of this yet. So far I have seen only deus ex gonna support DX 12 and it is coming in 2017 iirc. Point is both NV and AMD has enough time to optimise. If you see the draw call performance of DX 11 NV pulls ahead , I wouldn't be surprised if at the beginning it ran faster on AMD

 

[MisterLilBig]

We know nothing of this yet. So far I have seen only deus ex gonna support DX 12 and it is coming in 2017 iirc. Point is both NV and AMD has enough time to optimise. If you see the draw call performance of DX 11 NV pulls ahead , I wouldn't be surprised if at the beginning it ran faster on AMD

We know initial performance points. It is something, but not the end result of course.

But, and an important one. -> It is hard to optimize something simpler. The best performance of a hardware will be easier to pull off. That is why I said that it would benefit AMD in the software side of things the most. Because no matter how great NV has been at drivers, their advantage will matter far less with lower level API's. Meaning, GPU vendors have less software work to do, in every metric.
Meaning, hardware and architecture will matter most.