[Forbes] AMD Is Wrong About 'The Witcher 3' And Nvidia's HairWorks

[DarkKnightDude]

I wish Nvidia had a similar setting for the control panel.

 

[Deders]

It's not the tessellation that kills Kepler, if you lower the AA on hairworks in a config file it works wonders.

 

[n0x1ous]

It's not the tessellation that kills Kepler, if you lower the AA on hairworks in a config file it works wonders.

Now we are getting somewhere.....sounds reasonable...any benches to back this up? is it because of the fewer ROPS compared to maxwell?

Although it still doesnt explain the poor Kepler performance with hairworks turned off

 

[Keysplayr]

You are essentially saying that anyone who does not agree with you or buy into Nvidia's PR are morons. Well done.

I think people are entitled to their opinions. I said those that think. Some people don't think a lot. Doesn't make them morons though. That was mean spirited of you to say so.

 

[Deders]

Now we are getting somewhere.....sounds reasonable...any benches to back this up? is it because of the fewer ROPS compared to maxwell?

Although it still doesnt explain the poor Kepler performance with hairworks turned off

True. As for benches I'm only going from personal experience. I can max this game out by lowering the foliage distance to high and hairworks AA from 8x to 4x. It's not 60fps but it still playably smooth. this is with the latest patch, but not the latest drivers.

The latest drivers stop responding at desktop clocks for me, but i do have the latest PhysX still installed.

 

[Spanners]

When did you start selling Nvidia cards?

When did you start paying for them?

I think people are entitled to their opinions. I said those that think. Some people don't think a lot. Doesn't make them morons though. That was mean spirited of you to say so.

The meaning was abundantly clear.

 

[Keysplayr]

When did you start paying for them?

I usually receive one new GPU per cycle to test and bench. I have 7 desktop computers in the house. You do the math.

The meaning was abundantly clear.

Well, I've corrected you. Now you know you weren't as certain as you thought you were. It happens to everyone.

 

[maddie]

This thread appears to have gotten Nvidia's attention, which is definitely for the better. I'm seeing posters that I thought had vanished.

 

[Grooveriding]

This thread appears to have gotten Nvidia's attention, which is definitely for the better. I'm seeing posters that I thought had vanished.

I think it got their attention when the developer confirmed that they cannot optimize Gameworks code for AMD. Something everyone had heard and thought, but it finally was confirmed.

http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/35278-Nvidia-HairWorks?p=1658427&viewfull=1#post1658427

After that you are getting reaction/damage control from nvidia. I've seen this happen a few times, before it was something related to adaptive sync vs gsync. This same blogger at Forbes put something out there.

Nvidia contacts their network of shills/bloggers, whatever they are, and you see them come out to push a message that is contrary to what the developer at CDPR said.

 

[ocre]

After that you are getting reaction/damage control from nvidia. I've seen this happen a few times, before it was something related to adaptive sync vs gsync. This same blogger at Forbes put something out there.

Nvidia contacts their network of shills/bloggers, whatever they are, and you see them come out to push a message that is contrary to what the developer at CDPR said.

I think you need to post some kind of proof of this. You need to back your claim up because you are stating this like it is a fact

 

[IEC]

I think you need to post some kind of proof of this. You need to back your claim up because you are stating this like it is a fact

He just posted a screenshot of his supporting evidence. Not that it matters, because the mere APPEARANCE of dishonest practices is enough to be convicted in the court of public opinion.

 

[BFG10K]

Nvidia contacts their network of shills/bloggers, whatever they are, and you see them come out to push a message that is contrary to what the developer at CDPR said.

Yep, it's pretty predictable to watch it unfold. I guess nVidia expects a return on their investment of "gifts" to the community.

But if AMD/Intel started blocking PCIe slots and halting nVidia driver code from executing, you can bet those same individuals would be the first to cry foul.

These individuals feel it's unreasonable that AMD benefits from competitors' tech (their words), but don't bat an eyelid when nVidia freely benefits from Intel/AMD IP - chipset & x86.

Anybody that supports this kind of anti-competitive / anti-consumer behaviour simply can't be classed as a legitimate unbiased consumer.

 

[Xcobra]

lol... And I keep wondering why PC gaming is in the decline.

 

[96Firebird]

Getting a little exaggerative, aren't we there BFG10K? Comparing optional graphical features that can be disabled to completely disabling hardware doesn't seem close to the same level, but what do I know...

 

[IEC]

Getting a little exaggerative, aren't we there BFG10K? Comparing optional graphical features that can be disabled to completely disabling hardware doesn't seem close to the same level, but what do I know...

Hyperbole aside, he has a valid point.

 

[96Firebird]

I agree he does, but the comparisons...

 

[AnandThenMan]

Getting a little exaggerative, aren't we there BFG10K? Comparing optional graphical features that can be disabled to completely disabling hardware doesn't seem close to the same level, but what do I know...

Seems like the frog in the slowly heating pan. As for this:

"Unsatisfactory performance may be experience as the code of this feature [HairWorks] cannot be optimized for AMD products"​

So what exactly is AMD supposed to do about this, out bribe the game devs? Call me crazy but I've always though of PC gaming as something that ran on a common and compatible platform.

 

[96Firebird]

Not use Hairworks? I know that may sound shocking to some, but just imagine it's not even there.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Why would AMD be happy with that, that means Nvidia customers get visuals that AMD users do not so obviously that is not a good scenario to accept. Which is exactly what Nvidia wants. There is no technical reason Radeon hardware can't render the visuals with good performance but that takes some basic work by the game dev, which they cannot do because Nvidia prevents it from happening.

I don't support such anti competitive practices and I don't understand why anyone else would unless they work for Nvidia or have a specific financial interest in the company.

 

[96Firebird]

I think AMD has done all they can do regarding Hairworks in TW3, which is to warn it's customers not to use it if they are unhappy with performance. That may not make AMD happy, but competition is fierce.

 

[amenx]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but seems AMD users can get decent hairworks performance with a little tweaking:

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/the_witcher_3_hairworks_on_amd_gpus_with_normal_performance.html

 

[3DVagabond]

Yup, AMD's Tessellation settings in the CC is very useful for gamers to customize for performance : IQ, the interesting thing here is that 64x -> 16x yields no difference in visuals but 64x is used by default. Good gamedevs would not do that at all, as they will try their best to optimize features to the max. Reminds me of the Crysis 2 tessellation on flat concrete slabs, wood planks and invisible ocean.

Sub pixel polygons FTW! People have been told for years now that these excessive levels of tessellation don't do anything but hurt performance. It's just interesting that nVidia has actually gotten ballsy enough to start crippling their own EOL'd hardware.

If left to their own they'd be able to release new hardware that wasn't any faster than their current offerings and just castrate the performance of the old hardware enticing people to upgrade on false pretense.

 

[3DVagabond]

lol... And I keep wondering why PC gaming is in the decline.

This is exactly correct. Hardware/software compatibility is the only thing that made the PC what it is today.

 

[3DVagabond]

I think AMD has done all they can do regarding Hairworks in TW3, which is to warn it's customers not to use it if they are unhappy with performance. That may not make AMD happy, but competition is fierce.

Actually they haven't done that at all. They've recommended using their user features to correct what nVidia is doing. Simply reduce Tessellation. The amount of which is absolutely worthless. Ironically it's nVidia's customers who are going to suffer the most.

Still, nVidia is going to get the effect they want because the shill sites will perform the benchmarks that show Maxwell in the best light. People who don't know better will simply look at the charts and think that Maxwell offers superior performance. It's really disturbing when sites know this and do it anyway so they can get their travel and hardware perks.

 

[SimianR]

So it looks like there are two GPU's below $1000 in NVIDIA's lineup that can provide playable performance at 1080P ultra with hairworks. Impressive

http://www.twitch.tv/amd/v/5334646

Makes some good points around 17:00.

64X tessellation factor on by default, 8xmsaa on by default when hairworks is enabled - cripple performance on kepler/amd GPU's and create an artificial performance gap between maxwell and everything else. Sounds great.