Then donate your excess income to your local charities. They will get food, shelter, and healthcare to the people that need it most right in your own area. Tada, problem solved.
Yeah it is true that I dont have enough money to pay for health care.
There are some things that arent right. As I said before there shouldnt be a full health care handout but at least a minimum. I know a guy whose spleen is enlarged but they wont see him unless it ruptures which could cause his death. It is ridiculus not to just fix it now...
Its funny because its your president who used all the social security money........ arsehole......
By the way the Democrats plan was not for a handout it was for the option to PURCHASE a plan that senators buy into. Basically the ability for anyone to BUY health care.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,547
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What if all health care providers strike and refuse to work? Should we force them?
If some men are entitled by right to the products of the work of others, it means that those others are deprived of rights and condemned to slave labor.
You cannot have a "right" that, by it's very nature, violates the rights of another. A right to healthcare would make healthcare providers slaves.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
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Does'nt work that way. See just like you I can't pick and choose where my tax dollars go. Some goes to buy tractors for farmers, some goes to build B2's, some goes to build dams and power plants. It's only a question of allocation which is ultimatly decided poltically by our democratically elected reps.
Eventually, if enough people find themselves w/o care they will vote to allocate more tax dollars to health care.
Keep in mind if charity worked so well we would'nt have any taxes at all and everything would run smooth.
So you think that educators are deprived of their rights? After all we have a union but cannot strike.
lol. You realize that there's no "Trust Fund" right, and that it's a huge scam? If not, here's a
.yep. Makes me wonder if the teachers in a privatized institution strike as they are not paid by the state.
Like a Catholic high school, perhaps? If that's what you mean, then yes, they do.
Association of Catholic Teachers (ACT) Local 1776 went on strike last year.
You can certainly pick what charities you donate to right now. Are you telling me that the meal programs in your area aren't feeding anyone? Are you telling me the homeless shelters don't serve anyone? There are countless organizations run on voluntary contributions with labor provided by volunteers. No, these don't service 100% of the people, but perhaps if more people believed in the power of volunteering and charity they could come closer. Instead of always looking towards the government to force people into giving, try looking at ways you can work within your community to benefit others.
Schadenfroh
Elite Member
- Mar 8, 2003
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I'd support it, but it'd drive up taxes a ton.....and its your health. This would probably drive costs down. That's my very possibly flawed oppinion.
EDIT: This should probably go in P&N.
EDIT: This should probably go in P&N.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
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You certainly *could.* Never works though, what is it 75 million w/o health care today..charity seems rather ineffective don't you think? One thing history has proven to get things done some element of forced taxation/collectivism is required. Or they would never have taxed in the first place for anything if charity worked.
You're right, I'm just imagining things. I don't really donate food and money to Milwaukee's St. Ben's meal program. St. Ben's Clinic for the homeless doesn't exist either. The volunteers at both of these places are just imaginary, as are the people they serve. I see the power of voluntary contributions of time and money all the time. What history has always shown is that when there is need, people will donate. At least people that care. Look at the private donations towards tsunami victims half a world away. I'd be willing to bet that many of the contributors couldn't even locate all of the vicitimized countries on a map, yet they opened their wallets to help. Its people like you, who feel entitled to the product of my labor that create the ever increasing tax burden on the producers.
We are compassionate, we do donate, we do volunteer. So until you start doing your part keep your hands off my money.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
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As I said, it's been proven not enough. When's the last B2 built with volunteers money?
Taxation is no more "theft," than imprisonment is "kidnapping," killing enemy soldiers in war is "murder," or other laws compelling compliance on pain of fine or imprisonment are "extortion." If you catch someone breaking the law, you have no individual right to lock him in your basement for some period of time, or to form a "necktie party." Such rights are exclusive to the government -- proving that the government has rights, you don't.
As for the federal government's specific power to tax, it is found in Article I Section 8, where the Congress is given the right to "lay and collect taxes . . . to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States." The government provides a vast array of services and infrastructure such as roads, schools, the banking system, port facilities, air traffic control, hydroelectric dams, communications satellites, R&D into a vast array of technologies such as radar and semiconductors -- not to mention the most basic functions of establishing and vindicating your basic commercial rights in property and contracts.
In other words, your "hard earned money" wasn't earned in a vacuum. You aren't Robinson Crusoe -- as proven by the fact that you don't live like he did. The commercial enterprise where you work -- or that you own, as the case may be -- operates within a society that has a vast public infrastructure that someone has to pay for. But of course, that vast public infrastructure also creates vast opportunities such that the taxes you pay reap you tremendous returns. The proof of that is the fact that the twenty wealthiest nations on earth -- as measured by per capita GDP -- all have an extensive public sector. Every one of them.
"Minimalist government" countries, with low taxes and little public investment in infrastructure and government services, are impoverished cesspools -- except for a handful of wealthy elites.
As for the specific justification for our "safety net," Congress and the states have made a judgment that very substantial numbers of homeless, jobless, destitute and desperate people pose a potential threat of "domestic distubances" -- you know, food riots and such. Preventing such "domestic disturbance" is deemed to be a legitimate matter related to providing for both the "common defense and general welfare." They may one day add health care to this list. Watch out!
Have you looked at what the cost of "free" healthcare has been in Tenn? Universal healthcare in the USA wouldnt cost as much as all the conservative naysayers have been saying... it would cost much, much more.
Call attention to a problem and people will do what they can, if they decide it is a worthy cause. Social structures, outside of a government, can group together and create a positive influence on society. Be it your church, the regulars at your favorite bar, or just a group of people that happen to live near each other. They talk, they say "hey, this is a problem, let's do what we can to help," and they help. On a larger scale, national efforts have been ongoing for a long time to raise funds for concerns not directly related to homeland issues. The various groups to help feed the hungry in africa ring a bell?Originally posted by: her209
So these people didn't need help before the tsunami?
I see power in charity, others see that only taxation works. I would rather have these humanitarian causes funded through voluntary donations, run by volunteers that actually care about the cause, than I would have the wastes introduced by the beaurocracy of government introduced.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
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Best care I ever recieved was from NAS hospital in pensacola FL. They even had a nurse come in every hour and check on me vs. my time in private hospital where they gave me a buzzer. Guess If I passed out I'd be SOL.
But your argument is ridiculus anyway as you know many government organizations are highly effective -- take air traffic control for instance. Not one accident on our jam packed tarmacs since it was created. Do we even need to see how many nobel lureates/earth stopping/profit sky-rocketing inventions and discoveries came from our public funded universites? Remeber, Berkeley of all places, runs the Federal weapons labs.
I don't know if it could work or not. I hav'nt studied the plans the EU Japan and Oceanic first worlders use... I know we pay more per capita than any other industrialized nation for health care and only insure about half. I know there is a lot of middle men, that have nothing to do with care, sucking the teet. Insurance cos, Lawyers, sales persons, billing agentcies are poping up like crazy to deal with morrass of paperwork and insurance difficulties. I know hospitals have to give care regaudless of ability to pay so those costs are already distributed to HC premium payors. We have defacto "universal care" now. There's got to be a better way.
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